AR Sponsor
Posted: 12/30/2012 7:35:04 AM EDT
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Good morning everyone, just curious how other people handle this. With so many people in the country misinformed on these types of things, do any of you carry documentation in your range bag regarding the legality of your AR Pistol (ie: that it's NOT a SBR)? Based off the documents and rulings I've read, I understand a lot of the rules and regulations yet still have range owners telling me I''m and idiot and going to be doing something illegal when I build mine...
I saw the thread with the letter scans- would it be worth sending one of these letters addressed specifically from my name to have on hand with me? If so, what would be the best mailing address to send such a letter? Thanks everyone- AR Pistol noob here. Just making sure I have my ducks in a row. Thanks in advance! |
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Quoted:
Wow way to blow the first post... I dont carry anything when i take out my pistol lower but if they are giving you a hard time 1. you can take a print out of what a pistol is 2. Or find a new range Thanks for the response. I am looking for a new range regardless, but figured I'd check if anyone had any best practices. New range might be the best answer it seems more and more. |
| There is no document that states that an AR pistol is not an SBR, but there are the various definitions of Rifle, FIrearm and Pistol that can be found at a federal level. In my case I've developed something called an SB15 that makes my pistol look like an SBR, but the BATFE has ruled that it isn't an SBR. I've gone to 30 plus gun ranges and have been stopped by countless rangemasters that wanted to see my tax stamp. After showing them the ATF letter that no tax stamp was needed, none of them has ever said no you cant shoot that here. My point is, that for the most part, people are aware of what is and isn's a pistol, and when in doubt, if they are presented with some kind of proper documentation they are good to go. |
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Quoted:
I carry the proper documentation, just in case I am ever asked, most feds will know the laws, but you local PD officers may not. Which is what? I'm just curious, because the OP is asking, and as I read this, it wouldn't hurt to have print-outs of the correct pages from the BATFE site if you have links to them. Thanks KingOfTheBumps |
| I have a Sig 556 Pistol. The cops stopped me and as usual they don't know what the laws are. They tried to give me a hard time about it so I just asked the cop if he could read and showed him that it is written on the weapon PISTOL The look on his face was priceless. AS with most cops they think they are right all the time and most don't know S---- from apple butter |
| Since Ohio doesn't appear to restrict the citizenry in regards to AR pistols, there isn't a whole lot of "documentation" involved. You might consider simply making copies of the letters that are pinned on this forum and carrying them. Any law enforcement types that can't read them and leave you alone are not likely to understand much of anything until your lawyer gets involved. The same is true for civilians, but you are not obligated to educate them. If a range owner or officer has a problem, I would look for a new range with competent help. AR pistols are not a new phenomenon and shouldn't cause a lot of drama, but one never knows. In the case of the uninformed LE folk, as the saying goes, 'you might beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride'. |
| As far as I'm concerned, all a range officer needs to verify is that I dont have a rifle stock tube on the pistol. If you have a pistol tube on the reciever, then its a pistol. And as for local cops, they can check the numbers and verify that its not transfered as a rifle and thats all the further they need to investigate as well. If I'm abiding by the laws, then I dont see why fuckin people have to question it anyway. Its my responsibility as the owner of the firearm to research the laws and follow them. |
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Quoted: As far as I'm concerned, all a range officer needs to verify is that I dont have a rifle stock tube on the pistol. If you have a pistol tube on the reciever, then its a pistol. And as for local cops, they can check the numbers and verify that its not transfered as a rifle and thats all the further they need to investigate as well. If I'm abiding by the laws, then I dont see why fuckin people have to question it anyway. Its my responsibility as the owner of the firearm to research the laws and follow them. This part is incorrect. The police can only check to see if the firearm was reported stolen. That is the limit of their capability. |
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I carry laminated photocopies of all my Form 1's and Form 4's for my SBR's and suppressors, however
I don't carry anything for my AR pistol other than my pistol registration with the serial number on it. My county requires a "BLUE CARD" for pistols.......and I have one for the AR pistol.....that clearly states that it is indeed a pistol. |
| I dont have any stamps or forms that I HAVE to carry with me b/c I don't have any of those super cool toys yet. But as far as the letters from the ATF, I have created a folder on my iPhone and store all of them in there. This prevents me from having to remember the letters and carry them with me and I always know exactly where they are. I already forget enough things at the house when I go anywhere and don't want to add to the list. Hope this helps. |
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Quoted:
I'd still like to see what exactly someone is carrying and considers proper documentation, ie, which letter, or letters. Since I generally tote a pistol and rifle upper to use with same lower, I just printed the pistol/rifle ruling from 2011: http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf which includes the "constructive possession" clarification from SCOTUS. And I've printed a couple of pictures of combinations of rifle/pistol stuff to illustrate. 
Which would all probably just confuse a local LEO. Then again, not sure there's any local LEOs who necessarily would know or care about the setup unless I had it some shady situation which I can't quite imagine getting into, and the local BATF guys I've talked to on phone seem to be sharp enough, I'm sure they'd clear it up pert quick if push came to shove (we have regional office here). I don't have any other stuff on the pistol that might raise an eyebrow, like AFG or whatever or I'd print that letter I guess. I'm almost legit to put an actual vertical grip on if I wanted, but I'd have to pin/weld the flash hider to get the legal 26", but if I wanted to do that I'd print the Franklin Armory one. Those are the aspects that seem to come up the most. What else? Oh yeah, the cheek rest thing and the fin whatchamacallit stabilizer thing that folks use on buffers, those both have letters too. - OS |
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