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Posted: 2/5/2009 10:10:46 PM EDT
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I'm looking for ideas for an AOW AR and want to see what y'all have come up with. The AOW only picture thread is all shotguns, so how about a dedicated AR AOW picture thread? There's already two stickies on the subject of AOW/pistols with VFGs, so how about a thread showing them off?
Oh, and tag for pictures  .
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Not many manufacturers make them. It costs the same to make a AOW as it does a SBR so most individuals go that route. This is a misconception. If you find a Manufacturer of NFA items (class 2 SOT/manufacturer) then they will usually register it for a few bucks (50-75 usually, sometimes free if they're a friend...as it doesn't cost them a damn thing  ) then you pay your $5 tax stamp, they transfer it to you... and poof AOW= $5.... not $200 to manufacture it as an individual...
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Not many manufacturers make them. It costs the same to make a AOW as it does a SBR so most individuals go that route. This is a misconception. If you find a Manufacturer of NFA items (class 2 SOT/manufacturer) then they will usually register it for a few bucks (50-75 usually, sometimes free if they're a friend...as it doesn't cost them a damn thing ) then you pay your $5 tax stamp, they transfer it to you... and poof AOW= $5.... not $200 to manufacture it as an individual...What is a misconception? Are you saying there are lots of manufacturers making them currently, or that for a INDIVIDUAL it doesnt cost 200 dollars to make a AOW? I wasnt talking about SOT's who happen to be friends as I cant imagine that is a very common thing. I was talking about Joe Blow who want to make a AOW |
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Joe blow goes to a C2SOT and has them make the AOW for a few bucks... which is not the same price as a SBR tax... the misconception comes from people assuming that the ONLY way to get an AOW is to, as an individual, make your own...
They're rare because the hassle associated with it just to use a VFG is far from worth it... |
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If you've got em and they are AOW, don't put them on here UNLESS the are legal in your State and have the proper Tax Stamps: They are watching:  Well, yeah duh  . That's a given and there's no point in asking if I can't get it legally.
Can't get SBRs in California, but AOWs are legal, hence my quest. As others mentioned, havgin an FFL/SOT do the manufacturing and transferring it to me (with tax stamp) would be the route I'd follow. |
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DeadEye,
I am sure you meant you to say you can't get non-C&R SBS/SBR's in CA without a CA DOJ permit.
In CA, you can get C&R SBS/SBR's and non-pen gun AOWs without a CA DOJ permit on an approved Form 4 or Form 1. Most people outside of the PRK opt for a SBR versus AOW because it gives you more flexibility with the stock. In CA, mere mortals don't have that option, so AOWing an AR-15 pistol is a good way to go if you want to dabble in NFA. I assume you are a Calgunner and are familiar with ke6guj's how-to "www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=82693". Get a copy of Quicken Willmaker, make your trust (unless you are in tight with your local CLEO), and get on with it already! Who said stamp collecting isn't fun any more!?!? M24armorer is a 07 FFL/02 SOT, so you could save some money by having him do a Form 2 and then Form 4 it back to you after the approval. |
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DeadEye, I am sure you meant you to say you can't get non-C&R SBS/SBR's in CA without a CA DOJ permit.
In CA, you can get C&R SBS/SBR's and non-pen gun AOWs without a CA DOJ permit on an approved Form 4 or Form 1. Most people outside of the PRK opt for a SBR versus AOW because it gives you more flexibility with the stock. In CA, mere mortals don't have that option, so AOWing an AR-15 pistol is a good way to go if you want to dabble in NFA. I assume you are a Calgunner and are familiar with ke6guj's how-to "www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=82693". Get a copy of Quicken Willmaker, make your trust (unless you are in tight with your local CLEO), and get on with it already! Who said stamp collecting isn't fun any more!?!? M24armorer is a 07 FFL/02 SOT, so you could save some money by having him do a Form 2 and then Form 4 it back to you after the approval. Correct on all counts. I was referring to what is attainable without a bedroom relationship with unsavory characters in Sacramento. The plan is to have John (M24) do the manufacturing for me. From my understanding his license allows him to manufacture NFA items without a Form 2/tax stamp (or are those two different things?). Still, 8 posts and no pictures? Guess I'll just have to go look at SBRs and envision them without stocks .
ETA: I'm DedEye on Calguns too... Didn't I meet you at Bullseye a couple weks back? |
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Quoted: Quoted: If you've got em and they are AOW, don't put them on here UNLESS the are legal in your State and have the proper Tax Stamps: They are watching: Well, yeah duh . That's a given and there's no point in asking if I can't get it legally.Can't get SBRs in California, but AOWs are legal, hence my quest. As others mentioned, havgin an FFL/SOT do the manufacturing and transferring it to me (with tax stamp) would be the route I'd follow. I think the other reason to do an AOW AR is so you don't have to ask permission to take it across state lines. Might make a good traveling gun. |
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Quoted:
If you've got em and they are AOW, don't put them on here UNLESS the are legal in your State and have the proper Tax Stamps: They are watching: Well, yeah duh . That's a given and there's no point in asking if I can't get it legally.
Can't get SBRs in California, but AOWs are legal, hence my quest. As others mentioned, havgin an FFL/SOT do the manufacturing and transferring it to me (with tax stamp) would be the route I'd follow. I think the other reason to do an AOW AR is so you don't have to ask permission to take it across state lines. Might make a good traveling gun. I thought you had to inform for all NFA items? |
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Quoted: Nope. Not for Suppressors or AOWs. You can fill out a form and they will approve it (if legal where you're going), but it's not required.Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you've got em and they are AOW, don't put them on here UNLESS the are legal in your State and have the proper Tax Stamps: They are watching: Well, yeah duh . That's a given and there's no point in asking if I can't get it legally.Can't get SBRs in California, but AOWs are legal, hence my quest. As others mentioned, havgin an FFL/SOT do the manufacturing and transferring it to me (with tax stamp) would be the route I'd follow. I think the other reason to do an AOW AR is so you don't have to ask permission to take it across state lines. Might make a good traveling gun. I thought you had to inform for all NFA items? |
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Correct on all counts. I was referring to what is attainable without a bedroom relationship with unsavory characters in Sacramento. The plan is to have John (M24) do the manufacturing for me. From my understanding his license allows him to manufacture NFA items without a Form 2/tax stamp (or are those two different things?). M24, as an 07FFL/02SOT can make NFA items tax free on a Form 2. Basically, he makes the toy and then fills out a Form 2 that he sends to the NFA branch informing them of what he made and they add that to the registry. He can then transfer it to another SOT on a tax-free Form 3, to a LE/mil agency tax-free on a Form 5, or to the public on a tax-paid Form 4. $5 for AOWs and $200 for everything else. |
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yeah, sorry to disappoint, but I think it is something that legally is too confusing and functionally is not strong enough for someone to try for.
if I ever feel the need to use a vfg position on my AR pistols, only half built currently, I think I will just grab the magwell. However, the more I shoot, the less I think I like that position. Idunno, to me it seems like the glock mags with the special base plates that will turn it into a vfg. I have not tried them, but to hold a pistol like that just seems so unnatural I have no desire to try. Good luck though, I am sure someone has done it. And who knows, if they post up, monkey see . . . |
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I think the other reason to do an AOW AR is so you don't have to ask permission to take it across state lines. Might make a good traveling gun. True - but I don't believe an AOW AR15 does anything for you that an AR15 pistol does not. You can take a pistol across state lines too, with no paperwork. But then, you don't have to mess with the NFA registration either. The only time I can think of that an AR15 AOW makes sense is in the case of the OP where they live in a restrictive state where just getting a normal "pistol" is a pain. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I think the other reason to do an AOW AR is so you don't have to ask permission to take it across state lines. Might make a good traveling gun. True - but I don't believe an AOW AR15 does anything for you that an AR15 pistol does not. You can take a pistol across state lines too, with no paperwork. But then, you don't have to mess with the NFA registration either. The only time I can think of that an AR15 AOW makes sense is in the case of the OP where they live in a restrictive state where just getting a normal "pistol" is a pain. It would make sense if you either can't have a pistol, or you want the vertical grip. Or if you just want one because it's different! Some people collect tax stamps, and it would be an easy way to get a $5 stamp. I've thought about one. It would give me almost everything my SBR has w/o the 5320.20 to travel. |
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I think the other reason to do an AOW AR is so you don't have to ask permission to take it across state lines. Might make a good traveling gun. True - but I don't believe an AOW AR15 does anything for you that an AR15 pistol does not. You can take a pistol across state lines too, with no paperwork. But then, you don't have to mess with the NFA registration either. The only time I can think of that an AR15 AOW makes sense is in the case of the OP where they live in a restrictive state where just getting a normal "pistol" is a pain. It would make sense if you either can't have a pistol, or you want the vertical grip. Or if you just want one because it's different! Some people collect tax stamps, and it would be an easy way to get a $5 stamp. I've thought about one. It would give me almost everything my SBR has w/o the 5320.20 to travel.
It's actually more of a pain to get an AOW AR than an AR pistol, since we have to go through all the necessary steps to get an AR pistol, THEN have to jump through the NFA hoops to get an AOW. The only appeal of it is that someone somewhere decided they didn't want me to have it, and that I can't have an AR SBR in the state... yet. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I think the other reason to do an AOW AR is so you don't have to ask permission to take it across state lines. Might make a good traveling gun. True - but I don't believe an AOW AR15 does anything for you that an AR15 pistol does not. You can take a pistol across state lines too, with no paperwork. But then, you don't have to mess with the NFA registration either. The only time I can think of that an AR15 AOW makes sense is in the case of the OP where they live in a restrictive state where just getting a normal "pistol" is a pain. It would make sense if you either can't have a pistol, or you want the vertical grip. Or if you just want one because it's different! Some people collect tax stamps, and it would be an easy way to get a $5 stamp. I've thought about one. It would give me almost everything my SBR has w/o the 5320.20 to travel. It's actually more of a pain to get an AOW AR than an AR pistol, since we have to go through all the necessary steps to get an AR pistol, THEN have to jump through the NFA hoops to get an AOW. The only appeal of it is that someone somewhere decided they didn't want me to have it, and that I can't have an AR SBR in the state... yet. If you can't get an AR pistol you buy the AOW from a SOT. That's the logical way to get it anyway. $5 transfer. $200 to make. To me the main advantage of an AOW AR would be the vertical grip & not needing a 5320.20 when transporting it across state lines. Eventually I may have one, but there are more important tax stamps before I do an AOW. (SBS, Suppressors, SBRs) |
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It's actually more of a pain to get an AOW AR than an AR pistol, since we have to go through all the necessary steps to get an AR pistol, THEN have to jump through the NFA hoops to get an AOW. The only appeal of it is that someone somewhere decided they didn't want me to have it, and that I can't have an AR SBR in the state... yet. If you can't get an AR pistol you buy the AOW from a SOT. That's the logical way to get it anyway. $5 transfer. $200 to make. To me the main advantage of an AOW AR would be the vertical grip & not needing a 5320.20 when transporting it across state lines. Eventually I may have one, but there are more important tax stamps before I do an AOW. (SBS, Suppressors, SBRs) the problem with that is that the few SOTs in CA are, for the most part, not willing to upset CADOJ by dealing with the public, or don't realize that it is legal for civilians to have AOWs. So, we first have to acquire the AR pistol, then we either $200 Form 1 it as an AOW or we find an 02SOT that is willing to Form 2 our pre-owned AR-pistol and then $5 Form 4 it back to us. With the 02SOT method, we don't need a local SOT to do the transfer, we can receive it back directly from the 02SOT, even across state lines. |
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So let me get this straight.... you can have a SBR AR in CA? Can you only make the SBR with a receiver that is already registered as an AW with the state of CA, or can you bypass CA AW laws by getting an AOW or SBR tax stamp? Our options are that we can have C&R SBS/SBRs or any AOW that don't otherwise violate CA law. So, we still have to comply with the AW regs. For instance, the AR AOWs must still not violate the pistol AW regs. So, we are talking about AR pistols that have a fixed 10-round mag, so that the pistol AW regs don't apply to it. If you had a C&R rifle, you should be able to get an SBR tax stamp for it. You'd still have to comply with the rifle AW regs, unless the host gun was a registered AW. CA requires you to have a CADOJ dangerous weapons permit for all NFA firearms, except for AOWs, C&R SBS/SBRs, and DDs that are between .51" and .60". If your proposed NFA firearm meets one of those exceptions, you don't need CADOJ permission, and only need CLEO sign-off or a trust/corp. |
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It's actually more of a pain to get an AOW AR than an AR pistol, since we have to go through all the necessary steps to get an AR pistol, THEN have to jump through the NFA hoops to get an AOW. The only appeal of it is that someone somewhere decided they didn't want me to have it, and that I can't have an AR SBR in the state... yet. If you can't get an AR pistol you buy the AOW from a SOT. That's the logical way to get it anyway. $5 transfer. $200 to make. To me the main advantage of an AOW AR would be the vertical grip & not needing a 5320.20 when transporting it across state lines. Eventually I may have one, but there are more important tax stamps before I do an AOW. (SBS, Suppressors, SBRs) the problem with that is that the few SOTs in CA are, for the most part, not willing to upset CADOJ by dealing with the public, or don't realize that it is legal for civilians to have AOWs. So, we first have to acquire the AR pistol, then we either $200 Form 1 it as an AOW or we find an 02SOT that is willing to Form 2 our pre-owned AR-pistol and then $5 Form 4 it back to us. With the 02SOT method, we don't need a local SOT to do the transfer, we can receive it back directly from the 02SOT, even across state lines. Not such a problem if you're already friends with one of the civilian friendly SOTs in the state .
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Not such a problem if you're already friends with one of the civilian friendly SOTs in the state .Yup, must be nice. We can't find any such love in SoCal, so we would have to fly up to NorCal a couple times, or work the pre-owned "repair" option and ship our stuff up to John to have him do the Form 2 and do a direct return on a Form 4. |
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