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Posted: 1/26/2006 3:30:37 PM EDT
This should be a simple question, however from posting on this sight everyone seems to try to misdirect my questions instead of ansewering them.


What is the most reliable build of a 7.5 pistol....what componets?

How much reliability can I expect?

what is the benefit of a Noveske FS ?

just some oppinions from someone, anyone just no arm chair commandos
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 4:24:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2006 4:39:54 PM EDT by nobody-really]
With a 7.5 pistol you are only going to get armchair commandos. It is not viewed as a practical weapon.

I can tell you I feel my 7.5 is a VERY reliable gun. But it did not start that way and took some work to get it there. As for it effectiveness, I get 55gr softpoint @ 2200 fps, and have not done any real testing to check terminal ballistics. I would use it in self defense if I was constricted by size and weight and feel more comfortable with it in a full auto configuration. Basically, making up for a lack of terminal ballistic performance with multiple rounds on target.


Link Posted: 1/26/2006 4:37:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nobody-really:
With a 7.5 pistol you are only going to get armchair commandos. It is not viewed as a practical weapon.



I want to build one of this lenth, and add a supressor to it. Either a SBR or a pistol... Not sure which one. I just want an overal short lenth.

Question I got is if they make barrells that lenth, and they sell them, and people buy them, then how is it not practicle...... Its not like you are planning on shooting 300 yrds when you build a weapon like that. I would shoot 25-50yrds with a barell lenth like that. Maybe out to 100yrds but I wouldnt expect excellant grouping.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 4:51:24 PM EDT
You quoted my post as I was editing and adding to it.

Many believe it is the yaw and fragmentation yaw induces that make the .223 effective. If you do are not at the velocity at the time of impact to cause fragmentation then it is believed there is a significant loss in effectiveness. With the reduced barrel length you get reduced velocity at the muzzle, so it is possible you never get the velocity to cause fragmentation and so are doomed to poor terminal performance.

My thought is that if you use soft point ammo and rely on expansion you can get some of the terminal performance back. Remember most of the fragmentation talk comes from the Military world which is limited to using non-expanding bullets. Hunters don’t talk about fragmentation to stop game animals.



Link Posted: 1/26/2006 4:57:46 PM EDT
One thing I would like to add is that although Gemtech does not want you to use a .223 can on a barrel shorter then 11.5 inches and will not warranty it if you do, their Piranha .223 suppressor will fit into the hand guard of a Bushmaster carbon 15 pistol, and looks very cool with just the suppressor sticking out.

I will not tell you how I know this.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 6:01:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BeastOfTheEast:

what is the benefit of a Noveske FS ?



Description: KX3 Flash Hider for 5.56 mm
One problem with 10.5\" and shorter M-16/AR-15 barrels is a great amount of concussion is produced which can upset the shooter, and his team, especially indoors. The KX3, (the Updated version of the Krinkov Flash Hider), directs the blast forwards, away from the shooter. Using the KX3 flash hider helps generate back-pressure for reliable cycling on short guns. The powerful muzzle flash of the 10.5\" barrel is minimized. Made in Oregon with a tig welded 4140 adaptor. The KX3 is threaded 1/2x28 TPI Class 2A internally, and features a unique design which helps maximize gas entrapment. The KX3 is made of heat treated 4140 Chrome Moly and Mil Spec parkerized and heat treated 4140 CM. This is avalible as a complete unit ready to install on any 1/2x28 2A USGI threded barrel. The US made KX3 has been cleaned up cosmetically from the earlierKFH and is lighter in weight, This lets US control availability and quality control. The new Noveske KX3 is made to exacting tolerances with specific materials. And proudly made in the USA.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 6:05:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nobody-really:
One thing I would like to add is that although Gemtech does not want you to use a .223 can on a barrel shorter then 11.5 inches and will not warranty it if you do, their Piranha .223 suppressor will fit into the hand guard of a Bushmaster carbon 15 pistol, and looks very cool with just the suppressor sticking out.

I will not tell you how I know this.



LOL :) See this is what I was thinking of :) Looks sweet and silent too

BTW imo if someone breaks into my house and I use a 7" barrel AR to depend myself it has a 30 round mag for a reason... If they take 30 and keep coming then im screwed even if it has a 16" barell IMO.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 8:39:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2006 8:40:18 PM EDT by PeaceKeeper2]
How much trouble was it to add the shoulder stock? Does the buffer tube unscrew like an aluminum AR?


Originally Posted By nobody-really:
With a 7.5 pistol you are only going to get armchair commandos. It is not viewed as a practical weapon.

I can tell you I feel my 7.5 is a VERY reliable gun. But it did not start that way and took some work to get it there. As for it effectiveness, I get 55gr softpoint @ 2200 fps, and have not done any real testing to check terminal ballistics. I would use it in self defense if I was constricted by size and weight and feel more comfortable with it in a full auto configuration. Basically, making up for a lack of terminal ballistic performance with multiple rounds on target.


www.doublediamondsupply.com/photos/c15sbr223_1sm.jpg

Link Posted: 1/26/2006 8:46:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PeaceKeeper2:
How much trouble was it to add the shoulder stock? Does the buffer tube unscrew like an aluminum AR?


Originally Posted By nobody-really:
With a 7.5 pistol you are only going to get armchair commandos. It is not viewed as a practical weapon.

I can tell you I feel my 7.5 is a VERY reliable gun. But it did not start that way and took some work to get it there. As for it effectiveness, I get 55gr softpoint @ 2200 fps, and have not done any real testing to check terminal ballistics. I would use it in self defense if I was constricted by size and weight and feel more comfortable with it in a full auto configuration. Basically, making up for a lack of terminal ballistic performance with multiple rounds on target.


www.doublediamondsupply.com/photos/c15sbr223_1sm.jpg





Well I would assume the picture he posted is off an SBR.... Not of a pistol. You can't have a stock on a pistol, but if a rifle has that small of a barrel it has to be registered as an sbr.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 12:23:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2006 7:18:46 AM EDT by 1NAVYCHIEF-RET]
BeastOfTheEast,
I will try to answr the questions directly, from my (actual NOT armchair) expierences.

Question 1- What is the most reliable build of a 7.5 pistol....what componets?

I have shot the Model 1 Sales (M1S for short) 7.5" A2 & Flattop units and the CMMG Inc. 7.3" Flattop unit, and from my expierences, with an Aimpoint CompM on the flattops and a TruGlo 2X30 on a Gooseneck on the A2, after a couple of mags, I & everyone else there were hitting soda cans out to 150 yards consistantly (we were in a gravel pit). We probably could have gone further, but we were limited by the space available. The M1S Flattop, the owner opened the gas port just a little before the first mag was done because it was not cycling completely, after that mod it worked flawlessly. The M1S A2 unit worked flawlessly after changing the Buffer assembly out to the "New Style" Pistol buffer. The M1S Flattop unit had the Pistol Buffer tube from RB Precision as did the CMMG 7.3" Flattop unit. I would use either the H3 or a 9MM Buffer. I've read about the Endine Buffers, but I have not used or even held one I use the H3 Buffer myself. I also want to try the Tungston Bolt Carrier Insert to add some more weight to the Bolt Carrier. All three units fired had M16 Bolt Carriers.


Question 2- How much reliability can I expect?

With my CMMG 7.3" Flattop unit and the H3 Buffer, I get 100%, same as my friends with their M1S units, after their mods. If you get one of these short units and it doesn't work 100%, this board is the Best Place to get info and ideas as to what to try next!
Also upgrade your bolt with the Defender Extractor mod.


Question 3- What is the benefit of a Noveske FS ?

My friends have the early Noveske US Krink Flash-Hider, and they make it ALOT nicer to stand side-by-side shooting these short barreled Pistols (Beasts). They point the concussion forward, not outward. My CMMG 7.3" unit still has an A2 Flash-Hider(not for long), and you don't want to stand next to anyone firing this unit! You stand back about a yard, and make sure you/re wearing Shooting Glasses or Googles! I almost forgot WEAR Hearing Protection, PERIOD.

I hope this helps. Whatever you try as far as these 7.5" units, if it doesn'twork right the first mag full, read this Pistol Board, espeially the Buffer section at the top. Lots of good info here.



Chief

Link Posted: 1/27/2006 7:08:35 AM EDT
If you want to improve terminal ballistics, buy 70+ grain bullets. Use 55 Grain for target/plinking and 70+ for "business" purposes.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 9:49:07 PM EDT
A couple things first.

A short barrell in a rifle round is going to shorten the time period the bullet is being push out the end. You will find that an AR15 pistol (7.5in) is louder and has much more flash/flame. (Thus why I refer to it as my Lil' Dragon).

As far as a silencer, they only really have an impact on sub-sonic rounds. Meaning anything that travels faster than the speed of sound is still going to have the "crack" or "boom" of the compressed sound waves over lapping or condensing.

The speed of sound is a variable based mostly on temperature, the speed of sound at sea level at 80 degrees is ~1140 feet per second.
Average M193 5.56mm Ball Cartridge round:
- At the muzzle is traveling at ~3200 feet per second.
- At 300 yards it is still traveling at ~2100 feet per second.
- At 700 yards it is ~1170 feet per second.

So, as you can see your just wasting your money on a silencer.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 11:22:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MoronWGun:
.

So, as you can see your just wasting your money on a silencer.



Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:20:55 AM EDT
ok brainy smurf
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