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Posted: 10/5/2004 8:40:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kaliburz]
[#1]
In regards to the movie....now that I have seen it.
THAT is what was going on w/ mine! And I have the 10.5/11" upper! Cycles great, but bolt won't go home. It looks like the carrier is forward all the way, but it is not. Just that little bit and it "misfires". The issue is the recoil spring. Too weak! 
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Posted: 10/5/2004 9:23:17 PM EDT
[#2]
I am looking for some confirmation. I have searched and read conflicting reports. I bought a stripped lower and had the FFL transfer it to me as a pistol frame. Can I switch between a pistol and rifle as I see fit as long as I never have a barrel less than 16" with a stock at the same time. Thanks
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NH, USA
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Posted: 10/5/2004 9:48:54 PM EDT
[#3]
I suspect that this "bolt isn't all the way closed" symptom is actually the result of bolt-bounce and not a spring strength problem. That is, the bolt is closing all the way and then bouncing back to a slightly open position which doesn't allow the firing pin to protrude properly (thankfully, as you don't want it to fire if it's a little open!).
This is a known problem with shorty barrels (generally < 14.5") amongst M16 shooters. The typical solution is to use a heavier or mechanical buffer. Heavier buffers include the H or H2 buffer and the colt 9mm buffer. Mechanical buffers include AAC's or MGI's buffers. AAC's has two "floating" weights that slam home shortly after the buffer stops moving, creating a little extra push to keep things closed up tight. Unfortunately, there doesn't appear to be a simple way to eliminate bolt bounce with a pistol buffer setup as there is no buffer behind the bolt carrier. For this reason, I plan on using a CAR length receiver extension and buffer with my AR-15 pistol. Joe |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 10/5/2004 10:03:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: monkeyman]
[#4]
11.5" bbl, Model 1 upper, Stag Arms lower. My intention is to build a long range varmint pistol. I will probably put a 4X pistol scope on it instead of a red dot. I may also install a bi-pod.
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MI, USA
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Posted: 10/5/2004 10:05:50 PM EDT
[#5]
yes. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 10/5/2004 10:16:30 PM EDT
[#6]
I should take a movie one of these days showing what I saw last night... ok.. with the bolt that came with the kit, if I hold the upper so the barrel is pointing down (leave the charging handle locked in place) I picked up the bolt and dropped it onto the locking lugs... 99% of the time it wouldnt fully lock in. (still about 1/4 inch left for the forward assist to push in) I swapped the bold and bc, and did the same test, and it locks into place quickly and with no problems.. I tossed the Pistol kit bolt into my Carbine, and I'll test it at the range tomorrow..... maybe... just maybe the bolt that came with the kit needs to be worn in porperly first... -Jason |
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Posted: 10/5/2004 10:32:53 PM EDT
[#7]
Thank you monkeyman |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 10/6/2004 1:05:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Noner]
[#8]
Just some "Action Shots"
Apparently the Flash Hider doesnt Hide the Flash!  .  .  .  .  . -Jason |
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RI, USA
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Posted: 10/6/2004 1:11:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Colt_sporter]
[#9]
You bump firing that bitch....? You need some sights on that sucker
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WA, USA
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Posted: 10/6/2004 1:14:31 AM EDT
[#10]
Nope, I couldnt even pull the trigger twice without a hiccup... but after I figured out the glitches.. and how to work around them... i had fun.
I had to put on some eye protection after I noticed the flash was too damn close for comfort.... -Jason |
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Posted: 10/6/2004 6:57:02 AM EDT
[#11]
That fireball is crazy! Make sure you hand doens't slip!
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GA, USA
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Posted: 10/6/2004 8:05:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: MadDog760]
[#12]
How about my 1st AR Pistol Build...
Olympic Arms Lower Registered as Pistol 130.00 Colt 11" Barrel 175.00 Beta C 300.00 AWB Sunset so I can build it...PRICELESS http://home.comcast.net/~tdmccallie/Uzi/ARPistol_Beta_EOTech.JPG |
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Posted: 10/6/2004 8:21:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: az-gunner]
[#13]
Ya know, I may have to build one of these, just because I can. That rig is sure to piss of the libs. That's all the reason I need. Regarding the spring issue, has anyone considered or tried dual springs. Mind you I've never fired one myself. I'm kind of sounding off from the bleachers. Maybe a set up similar to the dual resistance springs found in a Glock 30 would work. . |
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Posted: 10/6/2004 9:00:49 PM EDT
[#14]
MadDog760: What a way to join the AR boards! I think you'll like it here...
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GA, USA
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Posted: 10/6/2004 9:01:04 PM EDT
[#15]
Everyone keeps saying a Vertical Grip constitutes an AOW. If that is the case it is only a $5.00 tax stamp for an AOW. Why not put your paperwork in and when it comes back approved, pay your $5.00 and install the VG?
Just a thought, MadDog 
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MO, USA
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Posted: 10/6/2004 9:02:52 PM EDT
[#16]
Because it's only $5 to transfer it, however it's $200.00 to build an AOW. Jerad |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 10/6/2004 9:07:05 PM EDT
[#17]
MI does not allow any aow's
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WA, USA
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Posted: 10/7/2004 1:03:34 AM EDT
[#18]
Ok ok.. I know what Ive said in the past, and what everyone else has said... but....
If you read the law a few times you'll only get confused... (I dont currently know where I stand on this issue) (Law 5845e)(Regulation 179.11) Look in the Green ATF Federal Firearms Regulations Refrence Guide QuarterBore's Website For Refrence.. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 10/7/2004 3:22:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: WTS-Mike]
[#19]
Posting my pic, I had the same problems as others with the bolt "bouncing" out of battery, but model one said to try a 22-24# 1911 spring from brownells and that seems to have done it.........so far. last resort is to run the car buffer tube. My question.. Are you guys using a buffer tube that is modified or just a plain buffer tube? to me that seems a little too close to a "stock" I mean just slip on the collapsible part? Did you mill off the groove/detents or something?
http://www.wolverinetactical.com/arpistol.jpg |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 10/7/2004 3:25:14 AM EDT
[#20]
Woa.. hold on... so a 1911 spring will work? I thought they were too short...??? -Jason |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 10/7/2004 3:59:35 AM EDT
[#21]
Just going from what model one sales told me to try before I sent it back to "have them get it going"
My local gunsmith had a 22# goverment spring and in my quick test the other day I was able to dump off 6 rounds without having to hit the foreward assist. (I was really short on time, so I didn't get to try more rounds) I am going out saturday to give a full rundown. If I can't get it to work reliably, then I will likely send it back to model one to see if they can get it to run. A question that goes thru my mind is, If model 1 knows that this is a problem with these pistol kits, and that a 22# spring can fix the problem, why not send the kit with that spring in the first place?! |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 10/7/2004 4:01:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Noner]
[#22]
Please post an update if you can get the 22# spring to work, and I will put an order to purchase a few from Brownells.
22# spring from Brownells thanks! -Jason |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 10/7/2004 5:02:33 AM EDT
[#23]
Wilco!
I just checked and the one that I got was a 22# wilson spring (competition recoil spring for 1911 style autos) |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 10/7/2004 7:41:52 AM EDT
[#24]
Noner -
Where did you get your complete upper from? Where can I buy the parts related to pistol building (7.5" barrel, short buffer tube, short gas tube, etc, etc, etc.) to build my own? Any help you could provide would be greatly appreciated. MadDog
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WA, USA
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Posted: 10/7/2004 1:36:45 PM EDT
[#25]
Just give a call to Model1sales, they have a "Team" of old ladies ready to fumble the order and yell at you while you try and tell them what you want! or you can go to Their Website -Jason |
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Posted: 10/7/2004 1:42:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kaliburz]
[#26]
The 1911 spring is shorter then the Model 1 spring in the kit. I didn't try to shoot my AR pistol w/ the 22 (or was it 24lb) 1911 spring. All I noticed that it had a firmer resistance, which is good. But personally, I would prefer a spring that made more "contact" then the 1911..... hence I got the "long slide" 1911 spring on the way.....
If I get impatient or want to see if a standard 1911 spring works, I'll try to venture off to go shooting Friday after work. But I'm not going to guarantee anything..... I'm assuming that once *broken in* and *well oiled*, the pistols will run fine. I looked on Brownells and they didn't have any Wolff extened slide springs..... (never thought about looking under Wilson or another manufactuer). |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 10/7/2004 1:48:34 PM EDT
[#27]
For another alternative...
This is an email that I recieved from Bushmaster regarding the carbon15 buffer tube. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The buffer tube is designed to be used with a shorter buffer spring # AZ15012 for $2.95, buffer # AZ15009 for $ 16.95 and short bolt carrier # AZ15267 for $75.95. the buffer tube has an end cap # AZ15307 for $7.95 with 10-32 screw # AZ15029 for $.50 which screws into the rear of the pistol lower to retain the tube. If you look closely at this picture http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/Carbon15/az-c15p97.asp you can see the end cap just below the buffer tube. The Carbon 15 pistol buffer tube is part number AZ15078 for $7.95 and the "O" ring for it is part number AZ15077 for $.50. You can order by calling our Sales people at 1-800-998-7928. Thank you, Jim Eden, Tech Support. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I guess this would be an alternative to using the Model1sales buffer tube system.. or a full size CAR Tube. -Jason |
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Posted: 10/7/2004 2:07:43 PM EDT
[#28]
As verification:quarterbore.com/library/law/us_v_tc.pdf (no offense Monkeyman, just adding the Supreme Court's "+1") Cheers, Otto |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 10/7/2004 2:18:09 PM EDT
[#29]
i see that there are springs for the 1911 that go up to 28 pounds
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WA, USA
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Posted: 10/7/2004 2:22:23 PM EDT
[#30]
If you get a spring that is too strong, then you will probably expreience some Failure to Ejects as the bolt would have to struggle to get back far enough to cycle properly... you could try though... as long as you report the findings back here.  -Jason |
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Posted: 10/8/2004 1:35:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Kaliburz]
[#31]
That is quite true, but as of right now, this is all hypothetical. That is why I ordered two springs, the heaviest long slide and second heaviest. The rifle buffer system has a weight to help counter-act the carrier, about 5oz or so. There is no weight to counter the carrier in the pistol buffers. Just the spring. Just thinking off the top of my head, a 1911 45 slide is prob. right about the same weight as a carrier/bolt assembly. Maybe a the slide is less. The 45 round has a lot of recoil. Even the Oly sytem offers a steel buffer (heavier) to use. As I said here (or was it the other thread  ), I'll try to venture off to test the upper w/ a standar 22/24lb 1911 spring. I think a test w/ another 100 rounds or so will should do... if I make it out. The Carbon 15 series recoil tube was interesting.... until I got to the part of a different carrier. Then I thought, "will cost too much". As of now, the cheapest fix would be to find a quality spring to use in the AR pistol recoil system. Next would be adapting a CAR system..... |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 10/8/2004 1:48:13 AM EDT
[#32]
I'm already ahead of ya... been talking to a few people about this for afew days, I might pick up a CAR spring, and see if I can find a use with the M1S buffer tube.... (with some cutting..) I dunno.. It might work. Keep us updated about what happens with the 1911 springs. -Jason |
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Posted: 10/8/2004 2:55:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kaliburz]
[#33]
11:45am - I just installed the Wolff spring....... The 1911 long slide Wolf spring arrived 11:20am. Upon opening the package, I KNEW I had to cut it to fit. The length of both springs (#1, #2) was over 12" long. I would say 12 3/4" or 13" long.... I was in a hurry, so I didn't take pics or do a accurate measure. THERE IS ENOUGH THERE FOR YOU TO PLAY WITH!!!! Any how, the factory Model 1 spring is about 7.5" long. Mine, used, is closer to 7". With the original installed, no cap, it stuck out about 1.5-2" above the back of the buffer tube. (The factory spring would not even send the cap flying if I unscrewed it. It just sat there.) I cut the new long slide spring at 8-8.5" long. This gives about 3-3.5" sticking out of the back end. Getting the unit together was "fun", but do-able. The spring is now under compression all the time, like the rifle units. The carrier, if I recall, could be pulled all the way back (I didn't try to lock it open). The force to pull it was much greater then before, but not too excessive. I guaged the force the spring had in a non scientific method. With the hammer cocked, I took my thumb and pushed on the carrier through the ejection port to see how much force was required to move it. I did the same on my full sized spring and buffered Cavalary Arms Cav 15. The force was similar. Got lucky I guess. I didn't adjust the spring after install. I will bring a set of cutters to trim the spring if needed, if it won't cycle. I'm sure that it will be fine... (all based on the thumb test).....   I will go try this thing out this afternoon/evening. Report on fuction to come this evening.... Here is a link of my pistol project: My Pistol project I will post the update there, less duplication. edit- didn't copy all of my post...oppsssss 
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MI, USA
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Posted: 10/8/2004 3:18:53 PM EDT
[#34]
Well the spring worked!!!! houghtJust for testing, I attached a car buffer tube assembly sans stock and ran a 30 round mag thru the 7.5 upper no problems whatsoever!! I like the little short tube from model1 but I will probably trade that size for reliability.
If the thing will always be finicky, then I don't want it. this keeps up, I'll be sending it back for a 6.8spc upper... and just scrap the pistol idea altogether. ~frustrated |
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Posted: 10/9/2004 12:13:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Kaliburz]
[#35]
Well the spring worked!!!! ...for  Click here for my update: My pistol thread w/ update on recoil |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 10/9/2004 2:22:07 AM EDT
[#36]
Just ordered the spring, thanks for the good work at finding this cure!
-Jason |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/9/2004 11:40:41 AM EDT
[#37]
What do you all think might be the best chambering for an AR pistol?
.223 Pros: Parts available and inexpensive, already have the ammo, lighter recoil. Cons: Poor ballistics w/o specialized ammo, supersonic muzzle blast. .300 Whisper Pros: All you need is a short barrel. Maybe less blast? Cons: lukewarm ballistics. Ammo cost. .458 Socom, .50 AE and .50 Beowulf Pros: Beefy round, definitely usable for social situations. Maybe quieter with heavy subsonic ammo? Cons: Requires more than just a barrel swap, right? Heavy recoil, fearsome ammo costs: Any other thoughts? |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 10/9/2004 12:49:31 PM EDT
[#38]
110 rounds, this is great news
as for calibers, i think a 45 acp would be great |
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Posted: 10/9/2004 3:45:01 PM EDT
[#39]
Being these are pistols, are they CA legal? I don't live in CA and don't intend to. However I do go the to visit family. It would be cool to take one, if legal.
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PA, USA
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Posted: 10/9/2004 4:53:36 PM EDT
[#40]
Just a note, I own a Patriot arms pre ban, cost me 1800 after the ban was in place, and yes, I loved to see its value go down the day the ban ended. I'll get some pics of it up, with a 120 round drum mag, cause if youre going to make a pocket rocket, you may as well go as high cap as possible. The shame is that they cant import the chinese drums anymore, makes me wonder what mines worth.
When I got the pistol, it would not extract reliably, I sent it back to patriot arms, and they said the original owner had switched bolts, and that they install a heavier extractor spring than used in a stock AR, ALSO, ALL their receivers were CLEARLY marked PISTOL, and this was done so there was NO chance that the end user could mistake it for a rifle receiver, Im sure it was also done to assure BATF, that this was a pistol when it was assembled from the virgin receiver, so even with documentation, stamping Pistol on the receiver may not be a bad idea. |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 10/10/2004 1:45:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Samiam236]
[#41]
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WA, USA
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Posted: 10/10/2004 1:47:42 PM EDT
[#42]
Samiam236,
If you email me the picture, I can host it for free for you. (The image you have now, isnt working.) Thanks -Jason |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 10/10/2004 1:52:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Samiam236]
[#43]
Thanks Noner! I had to resize it. Too darn big!hock.gif
P.S. your pic's on page 7 are awesome..............I can't wait to try out my flamethrower! |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 10/10/2004 2:02:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Samiam236]
[#44]
Since nobody answered your question, I will try to help..... There is a version (dont recall the manufacturer), of the pistol that has no mag well........it is a SINGLE shot pistol! It is advertised as CA legal, but you would have to check that to be sure. I found it! DPMS The 4th one down is the single shot rifle! Here is a link to one for sale! |
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Posted: 10/10/2004 2:25:30 PM EDT
[#45]
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WA, USA
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Posted: 10/10/2004 3:02:53 PM EDT
[#46]
Anyone notice that blue flame by the trigger finger???
uhm.. mine doesnt do that.... -Jason |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 10/10/2004 3:34:36 PM EDT
[#47]
I hope mine doesn't................OUCH!hock.gif
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WA, USA
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Posted: 10/10/2004 9:46:46 PM EDT
[#48]
Ok, after changing BC's and oiling down the entire path of the BC with some CLP, I shot the gun today with only 3 jams... over 100 rounds shot... not too bad.
I havent even changed springs yet... I just think that people need to wear in the gun for abit, I just finished up a brick of 500 through the pistol.. and its just starting to act nice. when the new spring gets here sometime this week, I'll take some photographs for everyone... -Jason |
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Posted: 10/11/2004 1:04:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Kaliburz]
[#49]
That's cool. But still, the spring *should* have enough force to keep it forward when the entire assembly is NEW. One shouldn't have *bet their life* on a well oiled weopon and *broken in* parts.  (Like we'll be using an AR pistol for a life and death situation).I ordered my springs via online on the evening of the third and they arrived the eighth. So just say by this Friday for ya... |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 10/11/2004 2:59:40 AM EDT
[#50]
Honestly, I know the pistol "Could" save my life in a situation... but I'd have to play with it while running and screaming at the terrorists-home Intruders-gerneral "bad-guys".... I sure hope that spring gets to me before friday, I'm leaving on a trip on thursday, and I wanna bring my new toy! -Jason |
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