State of the Industry. Where We at With DPMS G2 Pattern? - Page 4

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - State of the Industry. Where We at With DPMS G2 Pattern? (Page 4 of 15)

Posted: 12/29/2018 12:22:36 AM EDT

[#1]

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Quoted:

Other left.

What's the deal with dual ejectors? I can't quite get my mind around it, but I'm coming from a world that doesn't like even having a sprung ejector in the boltface, let alone two.

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Two ejectors were used to reduce stress on the springs.

Posted: 12/29/2018 12:24:54 AM EDT

[#2]

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Quoted: I am not sure if reducing bolt wall thickness is the best path forward for a round with twice the propellant.

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Find me a broken one.

Posted: 12/29/2018 12:29:40 AM EDT

[#3]

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Quoted:

Product management.

That's not how the product development cycle goes, and there were many prototypes before the test that you reference which is also not correct. Not sure who your source was for this information, but it's incomplete. Regardless, the steel feed ramp was not added for the fun of it.

Again... product management

While it's true that threaded barrels were unfortunately omitted on most initial offerings, all models except the 24" bull currently ship with threaded barrels.

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Of Course its the Product Management but what is the thought process behind their decisions? Are these issues that are associated with freedom group or do freedom group companies arrive at these same retarded decision 100 percent on their own?

Why is Remington not marketing the shit out of the ACR to compete with the SCAR/Bren/B&T/MCX/ect?
Why is Remington doing the same thing with the M2010/PSR/R10/ect to compete against AI/KAC/who ever?

This apears to be the same mismanagement that has gone on in DPMS, AAC, marlin, and it all draws back to freedom group

Posted: 12/29/2018 1:43:20 AM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:
Product management.

That's not how the product development cycle goes, and there were many prototypes before the test that you reference which is also not correct. Not sure who your source was for this information, but it's incomplete. Regardless, the steel feed ramp was not added for the fun of it.

Again... product management

While it's true that threaded barrels were unfortunately omitted on most initial offerings, all models except the 24" bull currently ship with threaded barrels.

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Quoted:
Of all the SKUs DPMS introduced, my feel of the market was that a free-floated 18" would have significant potential sales in the price points above the non-floated AP4 and MOE.

For the life of me, I could not understand why they put that awful 2002-era YHM beast quad rail on it, with the monster barrel.

Product management.

Quoted:

There was a lot of innovation and extensive testing of the GII, to include pyramid testing across 10 initial prototype rifles after they did the 3D drawings and cut receivers and BCGs.

That separate steel feed ramp insert was a product of the pyramid testing with 100,000 rounds through those 10 rifles.

As far as their design and testing aspect goes, they really stepped away from what DPMS is known for in the .308 world, which is a 6061 low price-point bubba knock-off of the SR25.

That's not how the product development cycle goes, and there were many prototypes before the test that you reference which is also not correct. Not sure who your source was for this information, but it's incomplete. Regardless, the steel feed ramp was not added for the fun of it.

Quoted:

I wonder who stepped in after the developmental work was done and insisted on the quad rail for the Recon.

Again... product management

Quoted:

The 20" Hunter model is actually usable out of the box, though lacking muzzle threads, which was another oversight and the #1 complaint from people looking at it. I think they missed out on a lot of sales by not including threads on the 20" gun.

While it's true that threaded barrels were unfortunately omitted on most initial offerings, all models except the 24" bull currently ship with threaded barrels.

DPMS told me all about it in great detail. They said the steel feed ramp was added across the rifles after some early indicators during pyramid testing.

They told me in detail the conceptual, design, testing, and updates made throughout the GII program at 2013 & 2014 SHOT.

Posted: 12/29/2018 1:55:21 AM EDT

[#5]

Quote History

Quoted:
Nice setup,

I like the idea of a small frame 308 that takes up the same footprint as an AR15 but i really think at the end of the day that it all comes down to rifle is configured and that i am not convinced that the weight saved by scaling down is worth it from a durability and reliabily point of view.

the Mk12 was around 10lbs before optics and can. thats with standard 5.56 components.

8lb large frame AR are not exactly rare these days, from high end guns such as Knights to bargin basement models such as Aero. Its not entirely uncommon to see pictures of large frame AR's on scales weight under 8lbs.

So small frames can AR's can be heavy and Large frame AR's can be light. my issues with the DPMSG2 BCG lie in the thickness of walls around the lug area. While Bolt durability has long been an issue with 7.62x39 bolts, I am not sure if reducing bolt wall thickness is the best path forward for a round with twice the propellant.

Savage takes an interesting path by maintaining bolt thickness but shortening the OAL of the carrier to ship from factory sub 8lb rifles.

I think the industry is in a great place and i think shot should be pretty interesting this year in regards to different companies approach to making 308 gas guns more field friendly.

If i has my choice, I would do a 13.5 Carbon fiber barrel on my mws and call it good.

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Quoted:

Thanks as I had missed this thread.

For a different perspective on the weight issue the G2 pattern "action" is 4 ozs heavier than the AR-15 "action".

In other words if one builds with all the same components and uses barrels of the same contour and length a G2 chambered for the 6.5mm CM will be 4 ozs heavier than an AR-15 in 5.56/.223 Rem.

The G2 keeps the same lower center of gravity and shorter proper length of pull of the AR-15 so the resulting rifles are more ergonomic, are easier to shoot well, and handle much better than AR-10/Sr-25/LR-308 pattern rifles.

Add in the larger ejection port, better feed angle of the cartridge stack, dual ejectors, lower reciprocating mass, and much safer gas venting makes the G2 pattern a game changer for those carrying and shooting in the field.

AR-15 5.56mm on the right and G2 pattern 6.5mm Creedmoor on left.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/309674/IMG_20171128_161618361_HDR_jpg-787894.JPG

Nice setup,

I like the idea of a small frame 308 that takes up the same footprint as an AR15 but i really think at the end of the day that it all comes down to rifle is configured and that i am not convinced that the weight saved by scaling down is worth it from a durability and reliabily point of view.

the Mk12 was around 10lbs before optics and can. thats with standard 5.56 components.

8lb large frame AR are not exactly rare these days, from high end guns such as Knights to bargin basement models such as Aero. Its not entirely uncommon to see pictures of large frame AR's on scales weight under 8lbs.

So small frames can AR's can be heavy and Large frame AR's can be light. my issues with the DPMSG2 BCG lie in the thickness of walls around the lug area. While Bolt durability has long been an issue with 7.62x39 bolts, I am not sure if reducing bolt wall thickness is the best path forward for a round with twice the propellant.

Savage takes an interesting path by maintaining bolt thickness but shortening the OAL of the carrier to ship from factory sub 8lb rifles.

I think the industry is in a great place and i think shot should be pretty interesting this year in regards to different companies approach to making 308 gas guns more field friendly.

If i has my choice, I would do a 13.5 Carbon fiber barrel on my mws and call it good.

Big advantage with the GII is reduced reciprocating mass, which means less sight picture disturbance from buffer bumper pad impact, as well as return to battery stroke.

With an SR25 or LR-308, you've got a beast of a carrier slamming around.

This is driven by a 3:1 "rule" that Stoner, Sullivan, & Freemont were working with for reliable self-loader operation where carrier weight should be 3 x heavier than the bolt weight to get positive extraction.

There were some firearms designs prior that didn't have enough carrier or op rod mass, so the AR10 had a lot of beef in the carrier.

Posted: 12/29/2018 7:27:55 PM EDT

[#6]

The interesting thing about DPMS's approach to the GII was that they started with a list of things they wanted to improve with the LR-308, due to all the issues with the LR-308 and returns/repairs.

The first thing on that list was reliability.

Extractor problems with the LR-308 and AP4 plagued their margins in TQM, and coincidentally, my LR-308 had a bad extractor from the factory back in 2006.

The lip simply warped back some, without shearing off, so it didn't show up unless you looked carefully, but it was a FTExtract beast with a tight chamber as well.

A new extractor design was addressed, and they pulled that off in spades with the GII. The cool thing is that extractor is back-compatible with LR-308 bolts.

They told me that the list had so many major changes on it, that it finally got to the point that they realized they had to start with a clean-slate rifle design, because there were several points on the list that were just not going to work if they stayed with the LR-308.

Since they wanted lighter weight, they shrunk the receivers and BCG substantially, going for as close to an M4 receiver set as possible.

That included the receiver height, which drove the magazine relationship to the feed ramps into a place where the upper receiver wall around the extension tunnel was really thin.

Whatever happened during initial pyramid testing, they saw a need for the steel feed ramp, and added that to the design change early in testing, with all of the test rifles receiving that upgrade.

One problem I have seen is that many of the factor rifle's ejection port doors will not flip open when you charge the action, even on some of their rifles on display at SHOT, year after year. Same for some of the rifles I have handled at local gun stores. Not sure why that's happening.

I think it's a great design, but really needs a few tweaks here and there, with better marketing. Initial marketing was pretty solid, but seemed to Peter out after a while.

Posted: 12/29/2018 8:22:30 PM EDT

[#7]

What I'm surprised at is that CMMG hasn't tried to fit a .308 in their mid-sized receivers when you have products like the G2 and the POF Revolution on the market.

Posted: 12/29/2018 9:27:08 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Since they wanted lighter weight, they shrunk the receivers and BCG substantially, going for as close to an M4 receiver set as possible. That included the receiver height, which drove the magazine relationship to the feed ramps into a place where the upper receiver wall around the extension tunnel was really thin.

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I'm still quite amazed at how well the G2 mimics an AR 15 in general feel. DPMS really did an outstanding job of making an AR 15 with a mag well and stroke long enough to work with the 308 cartridge. It is rather fun to speculate where the AR platform would be today had the original Armalite guns been something like the G2.

Quoted:
What I'm surprised at is that CMMG hasn't tried to fit a .308 in their mid-sized receivers when you have products like the G2 and the POF Revolution on the market.

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How is the mid-size CMMG in comparison to the G2?

Posted: 12/29/2018 9:58:56 PM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:
I'm still quite amazed at how well the G2 mimics an AR 15 in general feel. DPMS really did an outstanding job of making an AR 15 with a mag well and stroke long enough to work with the 308 cartridge. It is rather fun to speculate where the AR platform would be today had the original Armalite guns been something like the G2.

How is the mid-size CMMG in comparison to the G2?

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Quoted:

Quoted:

Since they wanted lighter weight, they shrunk the receivers and BCG substantially, going for as close to an M4 receiver set as possible. That included the receiver height, which drove the magazine relationship to the feed ramps into a place where the upper receiver wall around the extension tunnel was really thin.

I'm still quite amazed at how well the G2 mimics an AR 15 in general feel. DPMS really did an outstanding job of making an AR 15 with a mag well and stroke long enough to work with the 308 cartridge. It is rather fun to speculate where the AR platform would be today had the original Armalite guns been something like the G2.

Quoted:
What I'm surprised at is that CMMG hasn't tried to fit a .308 in their mid-sized receivers when you have products like the G2 and the POF Revolution on the market.

How is the mid-size CMMG in comparison to the G2?

The finalized ArmaLite/Colt AR10A was a shorter AR10, with AR15 feel and AR15 fire control group. Colt started tooling up to produce that rifle in 1959, until their marketing and sales guy wired them and told them to stop, to build the AR15 instead, as he was ready to start filling orders for numerous armies in the South Pacific/SEA region.

Colt rebooted this general form factor with the 901 within the past decade, followed by DPMS and the GII, which uses an even smaller diameter bolt carrier and bolt.

The CMMG Anvil is a shortened LR-308 type rifle, with an AR15-sized magazine well. If you look at the upper, it's a short large frame design, and if you remove the BCG, it looks like someone took an LR-308 BCG and cut the tail down.

CMMG Anvil Left, AR15 Right

Posted: 12/30/2018 12:18:20 AM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:

The finalized ArmaLite/Colt AR10A was a shorter AR10, with AR15 feel and AR15 fire control group. Colt started tooling up to produce that rifle in 1959, until their marketing and sales guy wired them and told them to stop, to build the AR15 instead, as he was ready to start filling orders for numerous armies in the South Pacific/SEA region.

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/uploads//monthly_02_2015/post-9906-0-19948300-1422923068.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a264/artweaker/Thread%20content/Books/DSCN3494.jpg

Colt rebooted this general form factor with the 901 within the past decade, followed by DPMS and the GII, which uses an even smaller diameter bolt carrier and bolt.

The CMMG Anvil is a shortened LR-308 type rifle, with an AR15-sized magazine well. If you look at the upper, it's a short large frame design, and if you remove the BCG, it looks like someone took an LR-308 BCG and cut the tail down.

CMMG Anvil Left, AR15 Right
https://gundigest.com/wp-content/uploads/4-Bolt-face.jpg

https://cdn0.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/ANVIL_R.jpg

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Thanks for the info on the CMMG.

As I understand it, Colt only built one of the AR10As and it never made it past a prototype. Too bad.

Posted: 12/30/2018 5:48:11 AM EDT

[#11]

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Thanks!

It's one of their standard AR15 profile rails, with modified anti-rotation tabs and a barrel nut that I made a while ago. There's a troll-ish thread I did somewhere in the archives on here.

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Do you have pictures of the barrel nut?

Posted: 12/30/2018 10:32:35 AM EDT

[#12]

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Quoted:
Do you have pictures of the barrel nut?

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Quoted:

Quoted:

Thanks!

It's one of their standard AR15 profile rails, with modified anti-rotation tabs and a barrel nut that I made a while ago. There's a troll-ish thread I did somewhere in the archives on here.

Do you have pictures of the barrel nut?

I have one of his barrel nuts. It looks just like a Mk13/14 barrel nut. To use it with the Mk4/8 you have to cut a groove for the rear screw. With the Mk13/14 it doesn't require any modifications at all.

Posted: 12/30/2018 12:44:30 PM EDT

[#13]

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Do you have pictures of the barrel nut?

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I think Josh covered it pretty well, but here's one of the early steel nuts I turned. The rear groove allowed me to more easily locate and make the slot on a mill once it was torqued in place for a mk4.

Attached File

Attached File

In theory, it might be possible to bore and rethread a mk13-mk16 series of nut to fit the rifle, although I haven't attempted that.

Posted: 12/30/2018 1:04:17 PM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:

I think Josh covered it pretty well, but here's one of the early steel nuts I turned. The rear groove allowed me to more easily locate and make the slot on a mill once it was torqued in place for a mk4.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/316444/15461880440154163304162855318887_jpg-789980.JPG

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/316444/15461880923428642518062814900015_jpg-789981.JPG

In theory, it might be possible to bore and rethread a mk13-mk16 series of nut to fit the rifle, although I haven't attempted that.

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Did you single point that?

Posted: 12/30/2018 1:16:50 PM EDT

[#15]

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Quoted:

Did you single point that?

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Yes, CNC machines make life easy in that regard.

Posted: 12/30/2018 3:32:52 PM EDT

[#16]

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Quoted:

Other left.

What's the deal with dual ejectors? I can't quite get my mind around it, but I'm coming from a world that doesn't like even having a sprung ejector in the boltface, let alone two.

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The dual ejectors deliver more consistent ejection because there are 2 points of contact opposite the extractor.

I think it was a mistake to use the large .156 diameter ejector buttons as this allows more surface area for the brass to flow and smear.

We use the smaller .109 diameter ejector buttons from the AR-15 and with dual ejectors there is plenty of ejection power.

Posted: 12/30/2018 3:34:23 PM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:
The dual ejectors deliver more consistent ejection because there are 2 points of contact opposite the extractor.

I think it was a mistake to use the large .156 diameter ejector buttons as this allows more surface area for the brass to flow and smear.

We use the smaller .109 diameter ejector buttons from the AR-15 and with dual ejectors there is plenty of ejection power.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

Other left.

What's the deal with dual ejectors? I can't quite get my mind around it, but I'm coming from a world that doesn't like even having a sprung ejector in the boltface, let alone two.

The dual ejectors deliver more consistent ejection because there are 2 points of contact opposite the extractor.

I think it was a mistake to use the large .156 diameter ejector buttons as this allows more surface area for the brass to flow and smear.

We use the smaller .109 diameter ejector buttons from the AR-15 and with dual ejectors there is plenty of ejection power.

You're definitely on the right track, there. Those ejectors are huge.

You make your own bolts too?

Posted: 12/30/2018 3:40:08 PM EDT

[#18]

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Quoted:
You're definitely on the right track, there. Those ejectors are huge.

You make your own bolts too?

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Quoted:

Quoted:

Other left.

What's the deal with dual ejectors? I can't quite get my mind around it, but I'm coming from a world that doesn't like even having a sprung ejector in the boltface, let alone two.

The dual ejectors deliver more consistent ejection because there are 2 points of contact opposite the extractor.

I think it was a mistake to use the large .156 diameter ejector buttons as this allows more surface area for the brass to flow and smear.

We use the smaller .109 diameter ejector buttons from the AR-15 and with dual ejectors there is plenty of ejection power.

You're definitely on the right track, there. Those ejectors are huge.

You make your own bolts too?

Yes.

Attached File

Posted: 12/30/2018 3:48:56 PM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:

The finalized ArmaLite/Colt AR10A was a shorter AR10, with AR15 feel and AR15 fire control group. Colt started tooling up to produce that rifle in 1959, until their marketing and sales guy wired them and told them to stop, to build the AR15 instead, as he was ready to start filling orders for numerous armies in the South Pacific/SEA region.

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/uploads//monthly_02_2015/post-9906-0-19948300-1422923068.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a264/artweaker/Thread%20content/Books/DSCN3494.jpg

Colt rebooted this general form factor with the 901 within the past decade, followed by DPMS and the GII, which uses an even smaller diameter bolt carrier and bolt.

The CMMG Anvil is a shortened LR-308 type rifle, with an AR15-sized magazine well. If you look at the upper, it's a short large frame design, and if you remove the BCG, it looks like someone took an LR-308 BCG and cut the tail down.

CMMG Anvil Left, AR15 Right
https://gundigest.com/wp-content/uploads/4-Bolt-face.jpg

https://cdn0.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/ANVIL_R.jpg

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Can anyone explain CMMG's website and naming conventions? I feel like I'm trying to read French.

Posted: 12/30/2018 4:48:43 PM EDT

[#20]

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Can anyone explain CMMG's website and naming conventions? I feel like I'm trying to read French.

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Good luck. I looked at it a few weeks ago and checking it today it's already gotten significantly worse.

Posted: 12/30/2018 5:01:08 PM EDT

[#21]

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Can anyone explain CMMG's website and naming conventions? I feel like I'm trying to read French.

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The Banshee line is their pistols and SBRs. Endeavor is the long range line. The Resolute is everything else. The tiers in each are ergonomic: bbl lengths, brace or stock type, etc.

Their engineering department is good. Marketing department not so much. Almost like decoding those goofy lifestyle rifles from EraThr3 or Warsport.

Posted: 12/30/2018 6:42:33 PM EDT

[#22]

So what is their delayed blowback action, and what is their improved heavy-duty .458 SOCOM?

Posted: 12/30/2018 8:32:14 PM EDT

[#23]

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Quoted:
So what is their delayed blowback action, and what is their improved heavy-duty .458 SOCOM?

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MkG i.e. Guard, or maybe Banshee or who the hell knows. And the Anvil. They should have just stopped there instead of adding in all these extra names to denote god only knows.

Posted: 12/30/2018 11:02:43 PM EDT

[#24]

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Yes.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/309674/DSC01572_jpg-790150.JPG

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I assume you're now using DPMS prints and not the one shown that was derived from measuring the 10 DPMS bolts in the picture?

Posted: 12/30/2018 11:04:05 PM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:
I have one of his barrel nuts. It looks just like a Mk13/14 barrel nut. To use it with the Mk4/8 you have to cut a groove for the rear screw. With the Mk13/14 it doesn't require any modifications at all.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

Thanks!

It's one of their standard AR15 profile rails, with modified anti-rotation tabs and a barrel nut that I made a while ago. There's a troll-ish thread I did somewhere in the archives on here.

Do you have pictures of the barrel nut?

I have one of his barrel nuts. It looks just like a Mk13/14 barrel nut. To use it with the Mk4/8 you have to cut a groove for the rear screw. With the Mk13/14 it doesn't require any modifications at all.

I wish Geissele would dig up their old GII handguard programs and push the green button.

Posted: 12/31/2018 1:25:47 AM EDT

[#26]

Does the MOE and AP4 use a barrel nut with the same outer shape and dimensions as a standard barrel nut?

I could live with a Fortis rail or one if a few others that mount to standard barrel nut dimensions.

Posted: 12/31/2018 7:55:33 AM EDT

[#27]

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Quoted:
Does the MOE and AP4 use a barrel nut with the same outer shape and dimensions as a standard barrel nut?

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The MOE/AP4 nut extends forward past the 'flange' unlike the standard nut. I believe at the same diameter as the portion before the flange. So, the handguard would need to be relieved enough forward of the 'flange' to accommodate the deeper nut.

I've used it with Magpul carbine handguards and the Vltor CASV works fine.

Link to image

Posted: 12/31/2018 11:13:34 AM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:

The MOE/AP4 nut extends forward past the 'flange' unlike the standard nut. I believe at the same diameter as the portion before the flange. So, the handguard would need to be relieved enough forward of the 'flange' to accommodate the deeper nut.

I've used it with Magpul carbine handguards and the Vltor CASV works fine. MI claims their 2-piece handguards won't work, but looking at pics I suspect they will and MI just dont want to bother testing.

Link to image

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Posted: 12/31/2018 8:16:10 PM EDT

[#29]

Quote History

Quoted:
I assume you're now using DPMS prints and not the one shown that was derived from measuring the 10 DPMS bolts in the picture?

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Quoted:

Quoted:

Yes.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/309674/DSC01572_jpg-790150.JPG

I assume you're now using DPMS prints and not the one shown that was derived from measuring the 10 DPMS bolts in the picture?

You can safely assume we are complying with our Licensing agreement with Remington and the exchange of engineering information.

Posted: 1/3/2019 2:18:43 PM EDT

[#30]

since we appear to have some experts on this thread, will throw this out if anyone is willing to answer it...

has anyone swapped the buffer tube/buffer for something mil-spec and standard? I'd like to try some different buffer weights, etc, but not sure that I can jsut swap tubes/buffers (I have a G2 recon)

Thanks!

Posted: 1/3/2019 2:25:22 PM EDT

[#31]

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Quoted:
since we appear to have some experts on this thread, will throw this out if anyone is willing to answer it...

has anyone swapped the buffer tube/buffer for something mil-spec and standard? I'd like to try some different buffer weights, etc, but not sure that I can jsut swap tubes/buffers (I have a G2 recon)

Thanks!

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Tubes are no problem. It needs a .308 buffer if you're using an AR15 tube. If you use an A5/308 tube you'll need to use standard AR15 buffers.

Posted: 1/3/2019 2:34:17 PM EDT

[#32]

Related question:. If using the A5 tube and a standard 3-weight carbine buffer WITH adjustable gas, what spring and buffer weight combo would you guys suggest?

Posted: 1/3/2019 2:37:39 PM EDT

[#33]

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Related question:. If using the A5 tube and a standard 3-weight carbine buffer WITH adjustable gas, what spring and buffer weight combo would you guys suggest?

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H3 with a Tubby flat wire.

My PA10 has an A5 with that spring and an Armament buffer. It's nice combination.

Posted: 1/3/2019 2:46:39 PM EDT

[#34]

thanks for the swift replies.

To be 100%, I can go buy ANY mil-spec buffer (so that I can swap around stocks), but I need a .308 buffer to go in it? And for the latter, are there other options that are not $100? Or do I need to spend that to make it worthwhile?

Thank you!

Posted: 1/3/2019 2:50:19 PM EDT

[#35]

An H3 is only about $40. Tungsten's not cheap.

Slash's buffers are even more than that.

I like to be able to put a lot of mass in the .308 operating system, if need be.

Posted: 1/3/2019 2:54:02 PM EDT

[#36]

i think I am missing something. so, I can use a standard mil-spec buffer tube and a standard H3? Thanks!

Posted: 1/3/2019 2:59:07 PM EDT

[#37]

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i think I am missing something. so, I can use a standard mil-spec buffer tube and a standard H3? Thanks!

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No, you need an A5 receiver extension to use normal buffers.

I recommend A5s because it massively simplifies what kind of buffers work in the gun.

Posted: 1/4/2019 3:20:52 PM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:

H3 with a Tubby flat wire.

My PA10 has an A5 with that spring and an Armament buffer. It's nice combination.

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What's the point of the H3 when you have adjustable gas? Seems counterintuitive to buy and set up a rifle whose main selling point is lower weight, then slap on the heaviest parts you can find. Is the H3 necessary for reliable feeding vs an H2 or H1?

Posted: 1/4/2019 4:13:46 PM EDT

[#39]

Quote History

Quoted:
What's the point of the H3 when you have adjustable gas? Seems counterintuitive to buy and set up a rifle whose main selling point is lower weight, then slap on the heaviest parts you can find. Is the H3 necessary for reliable feeding vs an H2 or H1?

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Quoted:

Quoted:

H3 with a Tubby flat wire.

My PA10 has an A5 with that spring and an Armament buffer. It's nice combination.

What's the point of the H3 when you have adjustable gas? Seems counterintuitive to buy and set up a rifle whose main selling point is lower weight, then slap on the heaviest parts you can find. Is the H3 necessary for reliable feeding vs an H2 or H1?

It's striking a balance between enough gas to cycle the action and how long the bolt stays locked.

Believe me, I've tried like hell to run super light operating systems in the big guns. Everything works better with heavier buffers and springs.

Posted: 1/10/2019 10:09:00 AM EDT

[#40]

Here's another source for GII forends.

http://www.kearms.com/gii-accessories-category

Posted: 1/11/2019 4:46:30 PM EDT

[#41]

Doesn't JP Rifles use DPMS for a lot of their production? Would be awesome if JP got on the G2 platform.

Posted: 1/11/2019 4:59:13 PM EDT

[#42]

Quote History

Quoted:
Doesn't JP Rifles use DPMS for a lot of their production? Would be awesome if JP got on the G2 platform.

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They use LR308 pattern. I don't believe they use any actual DPMS parts.

Posted: 1/11/2019 10:59:29 PM EDT

[#43]

Quote History

Quoted:
They use LR308 pattern. I don't believe they use any actual DPMS parts.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Doesn't JP Rifles use DPMS for a lot of their production? Would be awesome if JP got on the G2 platform.

They use LR308 pattern. I don't believe they use any actual DPMS parts.

I've never seen any part on a JP rifle that smelled remotely like a DPMS part.

Posted: 1/12/2019 8:04:30 AM EDT

[#44]

Quote History

Quoted:
since we appear to have some experts on this thread, will throw this out if anyone is willing to answer it...

has anyone swapped the buffer tube/buffer for something mil-spec and standard? I'd like to try some different buffer weights, etc, but not sure that I can jsut swap tubes/buffers (I have a G2 recon)

Thanks!

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Not an expert, but I did put an AR15/M16 rifle buffer tube on my GII.

A1 stock, AR15 buffer spring, I shortened a standard AR15 buffer for it (some measuring followed by use of a tubing cutter) and then reinstalled all but one of the weights (wouldn't fit all of them after shortening) and a new buffer bumper.

Runs like a champ. It has a SA adjustable venting gas block on it now, but I don't remember if I added that before, or after I put the A1 stock/buffer tube/spring/modified buffer in it. Recoil is less than my .300 BO AR15 (both shooting 150 grain bullets) and I shoot with my nose on the charging handle.

Posted: 1/12/2019 7:32:13 PM EDT

[#45]

Quote History

Quoted:
Here's another source for GII forends.

http://www.kearms.com/gii-accessories-category

View Quote

Not bad looking and not a bad price. Anyone have one of these? I like the 7 sided M-lock rail. I actually like the looks of it a little better than the midwest handguard. Definitely like it better than the SLR handguard I have on it right now.
I want a 15 inch rail so I can cover up the gas block. The SLR rail I have right now I had to get one shorter than I wanted, because it would not clear the SLR adjustable gas block I have on there. I know, go figure, their handguard will not clear their own gas block!

Posted: 1/12/2019 10:44:34 PM EDT

[#46]

Why cover up the gas block?

Posted: 1/22/2019 1:05:47 PM EDT

[#47]

If it isn't too much to ask; is there anyone following this thread attending SHOT? Can you post a pic or two if you come across anything of interest to this thread?

Posted: 1/22/2019 2:36:56 PM EDT

[#48]

Quote History

Quoted:
If it isn't too much to ask; is there anyone following this thread attending SHOT? Can you post a pic or two if you come across anything of interest to this thread?

View Quote

I'm not at SHOT, but the DPMS 2019 catalog is out and doesn't show anything new for the GII, just the lighter Recon barrel, and the Hunter barrels are now threaded. However the parts section now has complete AP4 lowers for $250, and a few other parts.

Too bad, was hoping we'd get that Remington CSASS handguard. And a revised Recon with lighter handguard. Looks like DPMS is partnering with Midwest Industries on handguards, maybe we'll get some updated MI GII handguards next year?