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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Best Round for Bear Protection (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 6/14/2017 12:36:37 PM EDT
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I am trying to determine a round (and upper) for an AR15 for Bear protection. Essentially, it is to fend off bears trying to enter a home from a deck. This is not for hunting and shots would only be at a very short distance. I have been thinking at the 458 Socom but the ammo is expensive. The 300BLK seems a good alternative and more readily available. I have assumed that a 223 would be much less effective.
Any suggestions? Thanks |
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Most of us that live in bear country and deal with it almost daily it sometimes seems. Have bear spray as well as a 12 gauge shot gun with slugs or buckshot. I have both bear spray as well as a shotgun close at hand during the spring summer and fall.
If you are stuck on using an AR platform rifle, I would use a AR10 platform with hard hitting .308 rounds and keep pulling the trigger until bear leaves or drops dead. |
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ETA: Thought we were in GD, my mistake. I'd say .458 Socom, .450 bushmaster, .50 Beowulf But I do agree with an above poster, .308 out of an AR-10style platform would probably give me less pucker factor 
IMHO .45-70 or like .375H&H is what I'd pick if you gave me any choice. 12 gauge with slugs for an off the shelf "can get it at any walmart" choice |
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Black bear in the lower 48, any load which approximates a .30-30 with heavy bullet will suffice. 6.8 with the right bullets will be fine, as will .30HRT or .30WT.
Of the big pill AR-15s I would choose the .458 socom. It can use bullets designed to hunt bear. Taking into consideration the extreme close range, maybe even more gun would be better. You want the bear stopped short, not just dead. Perhaps an Armalite-10 in .338 fed or a Browning in .358 win would better. Is there anything that could be removed, that once gone would make your yard less attractive? EDIT: I ask because up to the house is well beyond what I would tolerate. And not that I think you should remove berries you have cultivated, ect. |
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A shotgun would be the correct choice. Slug or 00 buck. Slug would be my choice. If not, 556 at less than 50yds is good for point and shoot. If on your deck, you'll want instant incapacitating shot placement. Even the big bore stuff won't guarantee this. It will increase the likelihood, but by a small margin. I highly suggest the 12ga slug, or something heavy in 556 like 75-77gr. |
| I would rather a 308 with a hunting round and a red dot. 12 gauge with slugs is a solid option. The 458 SOCOM is an option if you already have a 5.56 you just swap the upper, yes ammo is pricey but you're talking about protection and are you going to be going out and shooting 100 rounds a month through it? |
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I never shot a bear, I'm sure I never will. Yogi came through a couple of my camps in NM and CO looking for trash. Bears seem to hate bad dogs and they wondered off. In NM, I am always a bit more careful of big cats than bears.
I really can't see the cost of .458 as being an issue. You are not going to shoot 600 rounds a year. Personally if I were worried about close quarters with a bruin, I'd have a .454 Casull revolver, and have fun in real life with .45LC in the gun. But I really like the .458 SOCOM in an AR, like a new and improved 45-70 Government. Thinking of beloved NM, I've seen big cats and bears in my front and back yard. I hiked all over with two bad dogs, or alone with a .357 Mag revolver. I'll go out on a rope and say a 250 string of firecrackers will scare the piss out of a bear and you didn't kill something that didn't need killing. |
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I really can't see the cost of .458 as being an issue. You are not going to shoot 600 rounds a year. Personally if I were worried about close quarters with a bruin, I'd have a .454 Casull revolver, and have fun in real life with .45LC in the gun. But I really like the .458 SOCOM in an AR, like a new and improved 45-70 Government. |
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That was my pistol of choice when I carried my pistol during hunting season while I was bowhunting it was a very capable gun if you were a capable shooter. I am a lurker for 20+ years on the Freedom Arms site. Never bought but what a fine pistol. Never will by a .454, always will have wanted one. |
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LOL later reviews say don't let the front site hit you in the farhead. OP is in NH, for his house he needs a good bad dog. I am a lurker for 20+ years on the Freedom Arms site. Never bought but what a fine pistol. Never will by a .454, always will have wanted one.
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If some smart ass comes along and says the 6.5 Grendel is perfect please report them. At 10-15 yards a 12 gauge with 00 buck or a slug will stop them. No need to aim just point and shoot. Not picking on you, just curious as to what makes you say that. |
458 SOCOM. If you are only using it for protection by a couple boxes of ammo, run a mag or 2 through to sight in and check function. Then pack it away. If you are really worried do this.
And if your a lousy shot get one of these. 
and on the gun. 
Smaller version, 
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Wat? Not picking on you, just curious as to what makes you say that. Quoted:
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If some smart ass comes along and says the 6.5 Grendel is perfect please report them. At 10-15 yards a 12 gauge with 00 buck or a slug will stop them. No need to aim just point and shoot. Not picking on you, just curious as to what makes you say that. 
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My vote also goes towards a shotty with buck or slugs but since you asked about an AR platform, I think the 458 may be the ticket with AR10 and .308 being the next choice.
For a handgun, I like my .460xvr and would feel quite comfortable with just having it while in bear country. |
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Whats that, $750 worth of brass alone. The mag offset is a bit awkward. The bullets alone weigh 9750gns (1.4lbs). It would get really heavy if I had 300blk 220subs in it. Bullets alone would weigh 19800gns (2.8lbs). I bought it for range fun. I would not carry that monster. |
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Is there a reason OP wants to go with an AR-15 variant for this? I say the 12gauge is the way to go. You can get a decent rock island pump action for <$200 and rifled slugs for like $0.70 each. Its way way less than getting into the exotic AR-15 rounds.
If you're just looking for an excuse to get a cool toy, then definitely don't let anybody here stop you. But if you're actually looking to keep the bears back, the shotgun is the best choice. |
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I have some ARs and I familiar with them. I do not own a shotgun.
By having 2 uppers I could use the same AR for two purposes (range and defense). I have a 18" 300BLK barrel which I bought on sale @ Wilson but it is not mounted to anything - I have never shot a 300BLK either. Yes, a 308 AR would also be nice, but which round would you recommend? I assume I would need a 16" or 18" barrel? I also suspect the AR would be easier for my wife to use if needed, particularly instead of a pump shotgun. |
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They make automatic shotguns too...
.450 Bushmaster I think is the more available off the shelf of the popular big bores, I have been meaning to check availability when I go into the city but I keep forgetting to. I haven't done much research on it either but I do like it uses standard AR15 mags. Anything a 6.8 can do a 6.5 Grendel can do better. That said having a Grendel the first thing I would grab in that situation would be my Mossberg 500. Its a 20ga but I doubt a black bear will stick around to argue. I know midwest whitetails sure don't (with slugs) |
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458 SOCOM. If you are only using it for protection by a couple boxes of ammo, run a mag or 2 through to sight in and check function. Then pack it away. If you are really worried do this. http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/Chuck_Richards/Gun%20Stuff/0928151617_zpssungiaz0.jpg And if your a lousy shot get one of these. http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/Chuck_Richards/Gun%20Stuff/20161103_125227_zpskrtkq9hq.jpg http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/Chuck_Richards/Gun%20Stuff/20161103_125220_zpspls0k24z.jpg and on the gun. http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/Chuck_Richards/Gun%20Stuff/20161103_124838_zpssk2k0ywc.jpg Smaller version, http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/Chuck_Richards/016_zpscfa45979.jpg
Just how long did it take you to stack the ammo that neatly and not have a domino accident? OP the big bore ar's are expensive if you're planning on secondary use as a hunting rig I say go for it. But if it's going to gather dust I vote for a good pump 12 or 20 gauge with slugs and buckshot. Who knows you may get a chance to bird hunt. The shotgun is excellent for small varmints to boot. The other question is what does your wife think? How well does she shoot and can she handle the recoil of a big bore AR? Are there training schools for tactical rifle or shotgun in your area? If so you might want to enroll yourself and your wife. And if she takes an interest it might bring more cool toys. |
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For black bear here in NH I would save your money and buy some Speer LE 64gr Gold Dot rounds. They have bonded bullets so they will do a number on any black bear from close range.
I have surprised black bears on my property on a few occasions from close range. The only aggressive behavior I have dealt with was with a mother and cubs. She treed the cubs while I backed off. She did some huffing and teeth popping. If you have bee hives (which I did), a dumpster (which I do), or some other draw to your property (farm animals, etc.) just do your best not to make your approach to the bear attractions a sudden one. There is a can of bear spray in the kitchen (where I usually exit the house). If a bear has tried to break into your property call Fish and Game. They take it seriously and they will bait it and euthanize the animal. If one of your neighbors has been feeding bears then get involved. A call to Fish and Game will let them know and they will contact the guilty party to get them to stop their crap. We had a neighbor feeding coyotes and bears with stale donuts. I had to shoot a few coyotes who were WAY too used to humans. I had no idea what was going on (I suspected and feared rabies, but later found out it was idiots feeding them). Fortunately someone figured it out and Fish and Game was called in to let the 'tards know they needed to stop RFN. This was not before a bear entered a neighbors' open garage, though. A fed bear is a dead bear. Not that I want to dissuade you from getting your awesome big bore AR, of course.
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Wat? Not picking on you, just curious as to what makes you say that. It will become crystal clear that there can't be any other caliber as perfect for everything as the 6.5 grumbl. Not sure how we ever hunted animals or hit 500 yard targets before it was invented. |
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http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/Chuck_Richards/Gun%20Stuff/0928151617_zpssungiaz0.jpg Just how long did it take you to stack the ammo that neatly and not have a domino accident? OP the big bore ar's are expensive if you're planning on secondary use as a hunting rig I say go for it. But if it's going to gather dust I vote for a good pump 12 or 20 gauge with slugs and buckshot. Who knows you may get a chance to bird hunt. The shotgun is excellent for small varmints to boot. The other question is what does your wife think? How well does she shoot and can she handle the recoil of a big bore AR? Are there training schools for tactical rifle or shotgun in your area? If so you might want to enroll yourself and your wife. And if she takes an interest it might bring more cool toys. |
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What's New Hampshire law say about shooting bears? Many states have minimum calibers or forbid the shooting of bears outside of season. Self-defense is rarely an issue provided you don't get between them and their cubs.
An once of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Bear country requires that all food stuffs be store in bear proof containers, sometimes suspended in a tree. Burning the garbage may help keep them away. An AR15 is more than capable with standard M193/M855 ammo of defending a person against a black bear attack by the simple fact that you have 20/30 rounds of ammo to work with. What the conservation officer is going to say in the aftermath I have no idea. |
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Well said: An once of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
I have no intention or desire to shoot bears - much to the contrary. However, they are around and attracted by careless renters nearby. My approach is certainly hypothetical but very plausible up in the White mountains. I like the Speer LE 64gr Gold Dot round approach in a standard AR - thanks Cheesebeast. |
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LOL no worries. Just visit what's the best caliber for medium/big game or why isn't the 6.5 Grendel more popular thread or is this enough caliber for (insert animal name here) threads, etc... It will become crystal clear that there can't be any other caliber as perfect for everything as the 6.5 grumbl. Not sure how we ever hunted animals or hit 500 yard targets before it was invented. |
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Little talk of bullet choice. Of the ar-15 thumpers, the .458 socom uses rifle bullets. If it is too slow to expand, the caliber is still .458... and it won't shrink, and it will penetrate.
Can not relocate the source of old information, but IIRC, more black bears have been shot in Maine using .30-30 than any other caliber. It is the most common choice for deer hunting there, so this makes sense. Once again bullet choice will be important. In 2014 an 11 year old hunter bagged a 502 pound very large black bear in Maine. I would not want to face a bear with pistol bullets, or for that matter .223 rifle bullets. Something that large is unusual, but possible. It is still a bear. They are faster than the hunter, climb better, and can be much tougher to take down than anticipated. All that being said, I am in Wisconsin. My cousin is an avid hunter. He uses traditional archery. So yes, it is possible to harvest a bear with two sticks. |
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I have taken quite a few large black bears with a longbow and wooden arrows, I have also taken 3 in my life with a 30-30 Marlin, they really are not as hard to take down as you might think, but in a panic situation like would be one trying to break into my house, I want buckshot or slugs.
The last two bears I fended off, was a grizz with a cub and a black bear with cubs and I used bear spray to do it. |
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LOL no worries. Just visit what's the best caliber for medium/big game or why isn't the 6.5 Grendel more popular thread or is this enough caliber for (insert animal name here) threads, etc... It will become crystal clear that there can't be any other caliber as perfect for everything as the 6.5 grumbl. Not sure how we ever hunted animals or hit 500 yard targets before it was invented. Quoted:
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Wat? Not picking on you, just curious as to what makes you say that. It will become crystal clear that there can't be any other caliber as perfect for everything as the 6.5 grumbl. Not sure how we ever hunted animals or hit 500 yard targets before it was invented.
And I agree, the 6.5 people are highly obnoxious. Just ignore them like I do or if it bothers you that much just use the ignore feature to help keep the peace. |
| I've had many black bear encounters in the BWCA, Canada and the Smoky Mountians. None of them were scary or dangerous. I've been unarmed in the open and within 15-20 feet of black bears, they were passive and just going about their day, nothing to worry about. On vacation in the Smoky Mountains it is common to have black bear families come to your cabin and look in through the sliding glass door, most people consider themselves lucky when they do. Yes there have been horrific black bear attacks but they really are few and far between. I understand and agree that having something to stop one that's gone rogue is a good idea but odds are you would never have to use it. I sure as hell wouldn't shoot one for coming on the back porch, it would have to break through the glass before the game was on. |
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I was questioning the part where you said that within 15 yards, you don't have to aim with a shotgun
And I agree, the 6.5 people are highly obnoxious. Just ignore them like I do or if it bothers you that much just use the ignore feature to help keep the peace. 
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Most of us that live in bear country and deal with it almost daily it sometimes seems. Have bear spray as well as a 12 gauge shot gun with slugs or buckshot. I have both bear spray as well as a shotgun close at hand during the spring summer and fall. If you are stuck on using an AR platform rifle, I would use a AR10 platform with hard hitting .308 rounds and keep pulling the trigger until bear leaves or drops dead. |
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I have already recommended "lesser" calibers than the 7.62x39. I do not have a problem with the numbers it generates. However, I am not a fan of the standard FMJ or JHP bullets when trying to take down an animal at the very edge of the caliber's capacity. EDIT: I would also want a heavier bullet than 123 gr.
Bullet choice is important. If, you hand load for the old soviet round, then it will suffice. |
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I was questioning the part where you said that within 15 yards, you don't have to aim with a shotgun
And I agree, the 6.5 people are highly obnoxious. Just ignore them like I do or if it bothers you that much just use the ignore feature to help keep the peace. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh! LRRPF52 is about to write a 40 page dissertation on how over 50 million years ago someone used something similar to the grendel to kill a dinosaur meaning it would be plenty to kill a bear and no other rifle is capable of doing it better. |
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I have some ARs and I familiar with them. I do not own a shotgun. By having 2 uppers I could use the same AR for two purposes (range and defense). I have a 18" 300BLK barrel which I bought on sale @ Wilson but it is not mounted to anything - I have never shot a 300BLK either. Yes, a 308 AR would also be nice, but which round would you recommend? I assume I would need a 16" or 18" barrel? I also suspect the AR would be easier for my wife to use if needed, particularly instead of a pump shotgun. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Best Round for Bear Protection (Page 1 of 2)
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