AR Sponsor
Posted: 4/2/2015 5:48:50 PM EDT
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*I don't have enough posts to be able to include all of this in one post. There will be 5 posts in total*
(1) 
First off, a little bit about myself. I consider myself an aspiring gun nut! I have a few AR15 builds under my belt and many more ideas in the works. I am purely a hobbyist and by no means an expert. I do however find value in seeing what works and what doesn't for others in the community. So for those that are just starting, or perhaps thinking about starting, a .308 AR build, I offer you this (premature) summary on my Aero Precision M5 build. I've had plans to build a .308 AR for quite some time and when Schuyler Arms announced they were selling Aero Precision M5 combos for $215, I jumped on the deal and it was off to the races. My initial plan was to leave the upper/lower combo in the safe and come back to it in a few months...so naturally, the next day I was ordering parts to start the build ahead of schedule! |
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(2)
Come to find out the .308 world is way different than that of the uniform and military specified .223/5.56. I quickly learned that most rifles fall under one of two categories, Armalite's AR10 or DPMS's LR308. The Aero Precision set falls into the DPMS category so I figured that any old lower parts kit in the DPMS style would do, wrong! Unlike AR15's, .308 parts are not manufactured to a common set of specifications. For example, parts made by CMMG may not perfectly fit every DPMS style .308. I have heard that Armalite style parts are more uniform but not near as common as DPMS. I learned this the hard way when I purchased a CMMG .308 Gun Builders LPK. (This is a great product for those of us who have no need for a gritty 40lb factory trigger and a cheapo A2 style grip). Upon assembly, I found that both receiver pins would not fit. With a little persuasion (and frog lube), I was able to get the pivot pin installed. I had to use a fine grit sand paper on the rear take-down pin in order to get it to fit. Both pins didn't protrude from the receiver like they do on an AR15 and were a bear to remove. My OCD kicked it and I ate the $12 shipping cost and went ahead ordered new pins from Aero. Much to my satisfaction, that solved the problem perfectly! |
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(3)
Unfortunately, that was not the only issue I had with the CMMG parts. The threaded portion of the magazine catch is barely long enough to thread on to the magazine release button. I may have gotten a good 2 or 3 threads. I'm sure this will not cause a functionality problem and can be easily ignored if a solid magazine release button is used. But once again my OCD got the best of me. After scouring the web for help, I discovered that the Armalite pattern magazine catch has a slightly longer thread and will work in the Aero M5 lower. Easy fix! I have ordered one and will report back when I can confirm or deny this. The rest of the CMMG parts (bolt catch, safety and buffer retainer) all work fine. I want to stress that this is by no means the fault of CMMG or Aero Precision, just the non-standardization of .308 AR parts. |
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(4)
I broke my sacred Magpul relationship and opted for an Ergo Deluxe grip for this build. The AR15/M16 version fits great on the Aero. Snug and no unsightly gap between the tail of the grip and the receiver. Thankfully, Magpul LR/SR PMags fit the DPMS style receiver and are readily available. I have heard that it is not as easy to find magazines for older Armalite pattern rifles. They have, however, released a newer model (AR10A) that does accept 3rd party magazines. On to the upper! As you can see I still have ways to go but after the lower fiasco, I have done my homework on the upper. As I said before, the Aero M5 upper is a DPMS pattern but more specifically, a DPMS pattern with a high profile. Apparently this is more common than the low profile design. The difference is about 1/16" on the top of the receiver. Not a huge deal until you start trying to match up a rail with a picatinny rail in the 12 o'clock position. This won't bother some but it's an easy fix if you just pay attention to what rail you're are buying. Most manufactures that make .308 rails will have a selection for a DPMS high profile rifle. The barrel is pretty straight forward as long as you buy the correct pattern for your rifle. One word of caution, however. I've been told it's a good idea to be sure that your bolt and chamber are properly headspaced. Because of the distinct differences, not only in tolerances but specifications from one manufacture to another, it is inherently important to have a qualified individual ensure that the rifle is safe. You will find that many manufactures, such as JP Enterprises, include a headspaced bolt with each of their .308 barrels. I'm eagerly waiting on my money tree to catch up, whenever that happens I'll finish the build and report back with any other "lessons learned!" |
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Do yourself a favor an install an adjustable gas block.
Tons of 308 build have all sorts of "ejection issues" that are really just over gassed guns trying to rip the case out too early. You'll pull your hair out trying to troubleshoot stuck cases, double feeds, case head swipes, over pressure signs on the brass. All of these issues are solved with a couple of clicks on a good adjustable gas block. My friend spent three or four range trips trying to fix his hand loads to run his gun, yet even the lower power ones showed over pressure signs (flat primers, case head swipes, bent rims). After researching the problem, he installed an adjustable gas block and everything ran perfectly. From the start of my build, I started with an SLR Rifleworks gas block. I was able to turn the gas down to four clicks from completely off. No feed issues, good ejection and I'm not beating up the brass. This is even more important if you plan to shoot with a silencer. My build is using a VLTOR A5 Receiver Extension, Armalite AR10 action spring and a normal AR15 H3 buffer (The longer A5 lets you use standard carbine buffers). Those parts along with the SLR gas block and my build has been trouble free. And yes, with all the new 308 stuff coming out, I always recommend checking headspace (of course a matched bolt and barrel alleviates that). My first barrel would not pass a GO gauge with three different bolts. I finally found one that would work, but ended up returning that barrel and replacing it with a Rainier Match barrel with head spaced perfectly. |
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Quoted:
(3) Unfortunately, that was not the only issue I had with the CMMG parts. The threaded portion of the magazine catch is barely long enough to thread on to the magazine release button. I may have gotten a good 2 or 3 threads. I'm sure this will not cause a functionality problem and can be easily ignored if a solid magazine release button is used. But once again my OCD got the best of me. After scouring the web for help, I discovered that the Armalite pattern magazine catch has a slightly longer thread and will work in the Aero M5 lower. Easy fix! I have ordered one and will report back when I can confirm or deny this. The rest of the CMMG parts (bolt catch, safety and buffer retainer) all work fine. I want to stress that this is by no means the fault of CMMG or Aero Precision, just the non-standardization of .308 AR parts. What magazine catch did you use, series A , or series B ? I'm told that a extended magazine button will work too. |
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WOW op, i was thinking of posting this exact same type of thread.
i too am building a 308AR, also with the schyuler arms lower/supper set. $215 is ridiculous for the set, they are at least $250 everywhere else. plus, shipping was $7 to my FFL. i also used the same exact CMMG gun builders kit and ran into the same issues as you with the take down pins and mag release. i emailed Aero and asked what was up. they advised me that their pins will fit perfectly and that the mag catch just wont thread all the way, but it will not affect the function. i also used the same Ergo deluxe grip, i have big hands and it is very comfy in the hand. i ran into an issue with the safety. when i tightened the grip all the way, the safety would not move at all. too much pressure on the spring and detent. when i backed the screw out a little ways, it would work just fine. i decided to drill out the hole in the grip. it works now, but it's kinda sloppy, probably removed too much. oh well, i'll figure something out. i plan to buy a new ambi safety at some point and get the aero pins. |
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Quoted:
I will keep a running total! Quoted:
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Curious on the total for your build. I will keep a running total! OP not trying to jack your thread, but I just recently completed a similar build and thought it might help you/others to gauge the total cost. $111.00 - Aero M5 Lower $111.00 - Aero M5 Upper $75.74 - Fulton LPK + Aero pins $12.99 - Midway UPK $32.45 - Custom dust cover $189.95 - Geissele SSA-E $199.95 - Magpul PRS $380.00 - Criterion 20" SASS $128.24 - SLR SR-7 $13.49 - Midway gas tube + keymod stud $230.00 - MI handguard and rails $50.83 - BCM Mod3 CH $70.32 - Specwar MB $190.00 - Aero BCG **haven't received yet, built in to cost** $1,795.96 - Total I was estimating $1,600 for the build, but I got impatient and didn't wait on specials or compromise on features/reliability that I wanted. Rifle has not been fired yet, still waiting on the BCG..(get's here Monday). Biggest thing learned on the 308 build vs other 556 builds was the fluctuation of prices from different websites. The only parts issues I experienced were the original LPK pins being too small (OD and length) causing unacceptable receiver wobble, and the same issue with the mag release button (have it threaded 1/3, no issues so far retaining/releasing mags). Feel free to comment/pm questions, I certainly enjoyed this build. 
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Looks like Schuyler Arms inspired quite a few of us. I have a similar build in the works as well. I ordered all of the parts that I knew there wouldn't be any fitment issues with from Midway using birthday pricing so I got a pretty good deal there. Palmetto State Armory sells a pin kit that includes the pivot pin, takedown pin, bolt catch, and mag catch. I'm hoping these will work based on their description on PSAs website. I'll post back once I receive them. I bought my barrel here on the EE, the seller stated they're made by the same company that makes them for DPMS. It's 18", 1/10 twist, rifle length gas which is exactly what I was looking for. Hopefully it works out well. I'm planning on buying my BCG from AIM and will definitely check headspace.
Glad to see others are at the same point in the process as I am. I'll update as I go as well, hopefully others will learn from us. |
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Quoted:
Looks like Schuyler Arms inspired quite a few of us. I have a similar build in the works as well. I ordered all of the parts that I knew there wouldn't be any fitment issues with from Midway using birthday pricing so I got a pretty good deal there. Palmetto State Armory sells a pin kit that includes the pivot pin, takedown pin, bolt catch, and mag catch. I'm hoping these will work based on their description on PSAs website. I'll post back once I receive them. I bought my barrel here on the EE, the seller stated they're made by the same company that makes them for DPMS. It's 18", 1/10 twist, rifle length gas which is exactly what I was looking for. Hopefully it works out well. I'm planning on buying my BCG from AIM and will definitely check headspace. Glad to see others are at the same point in the process as I am. I'll update as I go as well, hopefully others will learn from us. If you bought it from hochimen, it should be a good shooter. my brother and I both bough one of those barrels for out M5E1 builds and they have not disappointed. |
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Quoted:
.. i ran into an issue with the safety. when i tightened the grip all the way, the safety would not move at all. too much pressure on the spring and detent. when i backed the screw out a little ways, it would work just fine. i decided to drill out the hole in the grip. it works now, but it's kinda sloppy, probably removed too much. oh well, i'll figure something out. i plan to buy a new ambi safety at some point and get the aero pins. Should have cut off a few coils from the detent spring  Same problem here with the CMMG lower and ambi safety, I think 3 coils was the number I cut off.
You can still salvage that grip, stick a small piece of nail cut off into the hole to fill it...Yes, totally 'redneck' style but it will work
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Quoted:
If you bought it from hochimen, it should be a good shooter. my brother and I both bough one of those barrels for out M5E1 builds and they have not disappointed. Quoted:
Quoted:
Looks like Schuyler Arms inspired quite a few of us. I have a similar build in the works as well. I ordered all of the parts that I knew there wouldn't be any fitment issues with from Midway using birthday pricing so I got a pretty good deal there. Palmetto State Armory sells a pin kit that includes the pivot pin, takedown pin, bolt catch, and mag catch. I'm hoping these will work based on their description on PSAs website. I'll post back once I receive them. I bought my barrel here on the EE, the seller stated they're made by the same company that makes them for DPMS. It's 18", 1/10 twist, rifle length gas which is exactly what I was looking for. Hopefully it works out well. I'm planning on buying my BCG from AIM and will definitely check headspace. Glad to see others are at the same point in the process as I am. I'll update as I go as well, hopefully others will learn from us. If you bought it from hochimen, it should be a good shooter. my brother and I both bough one of those barrels for out M5E1 builds and they have not disappointed. That's the one. Glad to hear you guys like yours. I was gonna get a Mega barrel with the exact same specs but when I saw the ones from hochimen for almost half the price I couldn't pass on it. |
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Quoted: OP not trying to jack your thread, but I just recently completed a similar build and thought it might help you/others to gauge the total cost. $111.00 - Aero M5 Lower $111.00 - Aero M5 Upper $75.74 - Fulton LPK + Aero pins $12.99 - Midway UPK $32.45 - Custom dust cover $189.95 - Geissele SSA-E $199.95 - Magpul PRS $380.00 - Criterion 20" SASS $128.24 - SLR SR-7 $13.49 - Midway gas tube + keymod stud $230.00 - MI handguard and rails $50.83 - BCM Mod3 CH $70.32 - Specwar MB $190.00 - Aero BCG **haven't received yet, built in to cost** $1,795.96 - Total I was estimating $1,600 for the build, but I got impatient and didn't wait on specials or compromise on features/reliability that I wanted. Rifle has not been fired yet, still waiting on the BCG..(get's here Monday). Biggest thing learned on the 308 build vs other 556 builds was the fluctuation of prices from different websites. The only parts issues I experienced were the original LPK pins being too small (OD and length) causing unacceptable receiver wobble, and the same issue with the mag release button (have it threaded 1/3, no issues so far retaining/releasing mags). Feel free to comment/pm questions, I certainly enjoyed this build. https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8752/16412025574_ded6671be2_c.jpg Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Curious on the total for your build. I will keep a running total! OP not trying to jack your thread, but I just recently completed a similar build and thought it might help you/others to gauge the total cost. $111.00 - Aero M5 Lower $111.00 - Aero M5 Upper $75.74 - Fulton LPK + Aero pins $12.99 - Midway UPK $32.45 - Custom dust cover $189.95 - Geissele SSA-E $199.95 - Magpul PRS $380.00 - Criterion 20" SASS $128.24 - SLR SR-7 $13.49 - Midway gas tube + keymod stud $230.00 - MI handguard and rails $50.83 - BCM Mod3 CH $70.32 - Specwar MB $190.00 - Aero BCG **haven't received yet, built in to cost** $1,795.96 - Total I was estimating $1,600 for the build, but I got impatient and didn't wait on specials or compromise on features/reliability that I wanted. Rifle has not been fired yet, still waiting on the BCG..(get's here Monday). Biggest thing learned on the 308 build vs other 556 builds was the fluctuation of prices from different websites. The only parts issues I experienced were the original LPK pins being too small (OD and length) causing unacceptable receiver wobble, and the same issue with the mag release button (have it threaded 1/3, no issues so far retaining/releasing mags). Feel free to comment/pm questions, I certainly enjoyed this build. https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8752/16412025574_ded6671be2_c.jpg These are the NEW take down/pivot pins http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_592/260944_Where_to_get_correct_pins_for_308_set.html&page=3#i2622920 Are these the new ones they sent you? New ones are made by KNS Precision. |
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Quoted: What magazine catch did you use, series A , or series B ? I'm told that a extended magazine button will work too. Quoted: Quoted: (3) Unfortunately, that was not the only issue I had with the CMMG parts. The threaded portion of the magazine catch is barely long enough to thread on to the magazine release button. I may have gotten a good 2 or 3 threads. I'm sure this will not cause a functionality problem and can be easily ignored if a solid magazine release button is used. But once again my OCD got the best of me. After scouring the web for help, I discovered that the Armalite pattern magazine catch has a slightly longer thread and will work in the Aero M5 lower. Easy fix! I have ordered one and will report back when I can confirm or deny this. The rest of the CMMG parts (bolt catch, safety and buffer retainer) all work fine. I want to stress that this is by no means the fault of CMMG or Aero Precision, just the non-standardization of .308 AR parts. What magazine catch did you use, series A , or series B ? I'm told that a extended magazine button will work too. This is what i was told to buy http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=11203200&Category=93c41860-4ca2-43ee-8ca9-dc09b1a5bf2c & this http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XSPBMR&name=Seekins+Precision+Billet+Magazine+Release+Button&search=Mag+release & i was told i would be good to go. I have yet to install them, I bought the armalite part here on ar15.com from another member for $12 shipped. |
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This is what i was told to buy http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=11203200&Category=93c41860-4ca2-43ee-8ca9-dc09b1a5bf2c & this http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XSPBMR&name=Seekins+Precision+Billet+Magazine+Release+Button&search=Mag+release & i was told i would be good to go. I have yet to install them, I bought the armalite part here on ar15.com from another member for $12 shipped. Let us know how those work out for you! |
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Quoted: Let us know how those work out for you! Quoted: This is what i was told to buy http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=11203200&Category=93c41860-4ca2-43ee-8ca9-dc09b1a5bf2c & this http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XSPBMR&name=Seekins+Precision+Billet+Magazine+Release+Button&search=Mag+release & i was told i would be good to go. I have yet to install them, I bought the armalite part here on ar15.com from another member for $12 shipped. Let us know how those work out for you! Will do. |
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Those of you who're using the PRS stock on the M5 receivers, are you using the 308 version of the PRS or the 5.56 version? I'm taking off my 5.56 PRS from my SPR build, and thinking of selling it. If it'll fit on a 308 gun, I might keep it. I believe the cheekpiece of the AR10 version is shorter than the AR15 stock so that the longer travel of the 308 charging handle doesn't hit it. |
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Those of you who're using the PRS stock on the M5 receivers, are you using the 308 version of the PRS or the 5.56 version? I'm taking off my 5.56 PRS from my SPR build, and thinking of selling it. If it'll fit on a 308 gun, I might keep it. I'd go for the .308 PRS. Like shortround said, if your cheek piece is raised up at all, the charging handle will not clear it. |
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I'd go for the .308 PRS. Like shortround said, if your cheek piece is raised up at all, the charging handle will not clear it. Quoted:
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Those of you who're using the PRS stock on the M5 receivers, are you using the 308 version of the PRS or the 5.56 version? I'm taking off my 5.56 PRS from my SPR build, and thinking of selling it. If it'll fit on a 308 gun, I might keep it. I'd go for the .308 PRS. Like shortround said, if your cheek piece is raised up at all, the charging handle will not clear it. +1 There is about 1/8" of clearance from the charging handle when pulled all the way to the rear (with cheek piece raised). |
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i just ordered the aero pins on friday. $28 frickin bucks for 2 pins!!!! ugh. oh well. got a standard CH and a MI 15" rail on the way. still waiting on rainier arms to get their 18" match barrels back in stock. gonna order the RRA A2 stock kit this week. i like the look for some reason. then i can eventually get the magpul PRS if i want down the road. next i just need a BCG. PSA has a black nitride for $150 that i want to try. i have a black nitride in my AR pistol and i'm a fan now. Quoted:
Should have cut off a few coils from the detent spring Same problem here with the CMMG lower and ambi safety, I think 3 coils was the number I cut off.
You can still salvage that grip, stick a small piece of nail cut off into the hole to fill it...Yes, totally 'redneck' style but it will work Quoted:
Quoted:
.. i ran into an issue with the safety. when i tightened the grip all the way, the safety would not move at all. too much pressure on the spring and detent. when i backed the screw out a little ways, it would work just fine. i decided to drill out the hole in the grip. it works now, but it's kinda sloppy, probably removed too much. oh well, i'll figure something out. i plan to buy a new ambi safety at some point and get the aero pins. Should have cut off a few coils from the detent spring Same problem here with the CMMG lower and ambi safety, I think 3 coils was the number I cut off.
You can still salvage that grip, stick a small piece of nail cut off into the hole to fill it...Yes, totally 'redneck' style but it will work yep, that's the plan. i have some assorted steel in 3 foot pieces from lowes in different diameters (1/8, 1/16, 1/4, etc). it'll take some playing around, but i should be able to fix it. |
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anyone heard of juggernaut tactical? found this barrel at buckeye tactical:
http://www.buckeyetactical.com/juggernaut-tactical-barrel-lr-308-winchester-medium-contour-1-in-10-twist-16-fluted-stainless-steel.html they guarantee sub moa at 100 yds with match grade ammo. here is the ad from juggernaut tacticals site: http://www.jtactical.com/18-AR-10-308-Stainless-Fluted-Barrel_p_42.html my only worry is that one says AR10 and the other says LR308. which one is it? |
| well I feel like a stage 5 clinger with all these posts. I heard back from buckeye, they advised it is a DPMS platform barrel that is 18" long. I think i'm going to give it a try once some of yall chime in on here. buckeye is apparently based out of Greensboro which isn't too far from me, but I've never heard of them. |
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FYI........rainier arms match barrels are back in stock. of course this happens when I had just ordered the juggernaut tactical barrel. I knew that was going to happen. Their description / specs look promising, give it a try, test shoot and decide to keep it or return. From Juggernaut's barrel description: " If you aren't completely satisfied with the barrel for any reason, return it for a full refund. Guaranteed to shoot sub-MOA at 100 yards with match ammo. " |
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Their description / specs look promising, give it a try, test shoot and decide to keep it or return. From Juggernaut's barrel description: " If you aren't completely satisfied with the barrel for any reason, return it for a full refund. Guaranteed to shoot sub-MOA at 100 yards with match ammo. " Quoted:
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FYI........rainier arms match barrels are back in stock. of course this happens when I had just ordered the juggernaut tactical barrel. I knew that was going to happen. Their description / specs look promising, give it a try, test shoot and decide to keep it or return. From Juggernaut's barrel description: " If you aren't completely satisfied with the barrel for any reason, return it for a full refund. Guaranteed to shoot sub-MOA at 100 yards with match ammo. " yeah, i will. i'm happy with the juggernaut barrel. that's just my timing though. been waiting for 2 months for rainier to email me to say it was in stock and then literally the day after i ordered the juggernaut they send out an email. oh well. i really like the juggernaut barrel. the fluting looks nice and the finish is very nice as well. the only thing that i didnt like was that the barrel extension is not stainless. it is in the ad, but mine isnt. not gonna hurt anything. i got the aero precision take down pics too, perfect fit. just sucks they were $28 going to stop by the palmetto state armory store in greenville tomorrow on my way to clemson to get a BCG and maybe a stock kit. i have an old scope to throw on it while i decide what i want to go with. so far i'm thinking: primary arms FFP 4-14x vortex FFP 4-16 super sniper 3-15 if i knew how to put up a pic on here, i'd do it. i really like it so far. |
| UPDATE: Just traded my left kidney for the Geissele Hi-Speed National Match - DMR trigger. Primary arms has them on sale for $237 and some change if anyone is interested! I love all my Geisseles but have never owned one of their adjustable ones. Can't wait to install it and finish the lower! |
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I am still trying to decide that. I've got 3 in particular that I've got my eye on.
-18" JP Supermatch -18.5" Fulton Armory (Criterion) -18" Lilja I was originally pretty set on the JP, no doubt its a fantastic barrel but the other two have also sparked my attention. Obviously, I want to get the most out of this rifle and I'm willing to invest some capitol where it counts. That being said, I don't want to spend money needlessly. I've heard that the Criterion barrels are comparable to the JP and cost considerably less. The Lilja barrel costs about the same as the JP considering it doesn't come with a bolt. I haven't heard too much about Lilja, but everything I have heard has been exceptional. Weight is also a consideration, I've already got a 10lb stock ! I don't want to end up with a 20lb boat anchor lol! Bottom line, a sub MOA barrel would suit my needs just fine. I am not going lose sleep and an extra $300 to get a .2" improvement on my groupings. Any suggestions or recommendations are greatly appreciated! |
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I am still trying to decide that. I've got 3 in particular that I've got my eye on. -18" JP Supermatch -18.5" Fulton Armory (Criterion) -18" Lilja I was originally pretty set on the JP, no doubt its a fantastic barrel but the other two have also sparked my attention. Obviously, I want to get the most out of this rifle and I'm willing to invest some capitol where it counts. That being said, I don't want to spend money needlessly. I've heard that the Criterion barrels are comparable to the JP and cost considerably less. The Lilja barrel costs about the same as the JP considering it doesn't come with a bolt. I haven't heard too much about Lilja, but everything I have heard has been exceptional. Weight is also a consideration, I've already got a 10lb stock ! I don't want to end up with a 20lb boat anchor lol! Bottom line, a sub MOA barrel would suit my needs just fine. I am not going lose sleep and an extra $300 to get a .2" improvement on my groupings. Any suggestions or recommendations are greatly appreciated! Rainier Arms Match or Ultra-Match barrels. I'm doing a build like yours and going to pull the trigger on their barrel. |
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UPDATE: Just traded my left kidney for the Geissele Hi-Speed National Match - DMR trigger. Primary arms has them on sale for $137 and some change if anyone is interested! I love all my Geisseles but have never owned one of their adjustable ones. Can't wait to install it and finish the lower! You had me there for a minute. You're a $100 shy. 
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