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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Budget .308 (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 11/9/2014 12:25:55 PM EDT
| I am looking for an 18" AR.308 for plinking and hunting anyone have a good suggestion and or model? |
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Armalite DEF10: http://d3pvexk84ayvwf.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/14_DEF10_R_Scope-EDIT.jpg Agreed, for a budget AR-10 this is it to be sure...I wish they made the same model in a 20" barrel. |
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Big fan of the dust cover if the rifle is actually used in the field. Left it open for a bit and had pine (Fir really) needles working their way into the receiver pretty quickly.
Deflector can't answer, never used an "AR" without. Forward assist seems pretty worthless. Have not had success with it, only seems to succeed in making a round that should just be extracted and thrown away, harder to get out. |
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Budsgunshop has the DEF10 for $887.
Budsguns Armalite DEF10 Lightweight Carbine |
| It is a little more than $1000, but I have been pretty happy with my Windham Weaponry 308. With that being said, had I known about this Armalite when I bought the WW, I probably would have gone with the Armalite on account of the lower price. On the other hand, it looks like the S&W rifle, which I don't like that much, maybe just because of the similar barrel profile, but the S&W sure is light. |
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Remember that when you buy ArmaLite, you are getting Karl Lewis engineering and his team's work on that project, which was really built on the back of the Stoner-Knight's Armament SR-25 Match Rifle back in 1996.
They literally used an SR-25 upper receiver, attached to a two-piece aluminum test lower. There were some very capable engineers with over 60 years of combined experience with the Stoner system, outside of Eugene Stoner's contributions to the SR-25. Now that ArmaLite Inc. (Eagle Arms as LMT's retail outlet in the early 1990's, bought by Mark Westrom, then re-branded as ArmaLite Inc.) has been making AR10A's (Colt's 1959 nomenclature for their intended production AR10 that was cancelled) with SR-25 magazine compatibility, you are basically getting the most bang for the buck in terms of a well-researched, well-engineered rifle, with good CS support from people that know their way around the AR10. I still think the receivers are too long in light of recent developments, but they are an economical option for a high quality rifle. With the Buds price, you simply can't beat it. |
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PSA has some good deals. Quoted:
PSA has some good deals. If you're happy with a VISMOD AR10, maybe. So far, parts not fitting together isn't helping. We still have yet to see any range reports here that I can recall. Here's one "range report" that I can find in GD. Sounds more like a colossal abortion. PSA .308 is together. UPDATE I found these statements interesting: The bad: The buffer seems to light or the spring not strong enough or the chamber is tight, or not oiled enough or some of all. It was never a problem when firing, but loading was very annoying. Unless the bolt was locked back, then released, and then even sometimes with that, the round would not fully seat. And forward assist was not helpful. So I would eject the round and try again. I don't think it will be an issue, I think the gun just needs to wear in. I'll sit in front of the TV and work the action for an hour and do a good clean and lube.
The good: It worked 100% It's as I suspected. They're probably running a PTG mystery reamer special, whether for a bolt gun or gasser is anyone's guess, including PTG's. Run the reamer ragged and keep driving on with volume, since they're counting on neckbeards to only post cool pics of them online, instead of actually shooting them. Urinalysis failure CNC operators cranking out parts as fast as possible, tool marks all over the chamber. Then the customers will buy this and post reviews like the one above. It's entertaining and sad at the same time. |
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I'll add this: I bought a PA-10 when they first came out. I bought an upper and a lower, both finished. When I mated them up, I could not chamber a round. I send it back, they "fixed it" then sent back. I could chamber a round, and it would fire, but sometimes I had to jerk the CH to get the chambered round out of the gun. I would wait a bit to see if they can iron out the issues with it. |
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Quoted: Remember that when you buy ArmaLite, you are getting Karl Lewis engineering and his team's work on that project, which was really built on the back of the Stoner-Knight's Armament SR-25 Match Rifle back in 1996. Call me crazy, but when you throw Armalite, Karl Lewis and the SR-25 all into one sentence, then the next thing out of most people's mouths will be "MWS." It wasn't long ago that Armalite had issues producing rifles that could really go the distance, in terms of round count, without serious issues popping up. These kinds of things have been documented in courses ad competitions for quite some time. Granted, the current state of the AR10 world is drastically different, but I wouldn't be so quick to give everything Armalite a free pass. |
ARMALITE DEF10
$890 for the rifle $30 Shipping $50 FFL transfer fee $400 for the rail ... WILSON COMBAT .... Ive searched for LARUE Armalite 308 Rails "discontinued" Daniel Defense 7.62 Armalite "discontinued" $60 for a low profile steel gas block $1430 without optics or BUIS sights COLT AR901-16S $1400 for the rifle $30 Shipping $50 FFL transfer $1480 without optics or BUIS sights So in all were looking at a $50.00 dollar difference between the two rifles. Might be an extra $100.00 for gunsmithing if you dont have the tools for the DEF10. Pros Armalite: * I like how the Armalite AR10 "DEF 10", has a proven track record with the reliability of their rifles in the AR10 platform. Plus the customer service and life time warranty. * Can take Magpul Pmag 308 and aftermarket DPMS/SR25 magazines. Cons Armalite: Chrome moly barrel ... not chrome lined. The COLT on the other hand has been fantastic in terms of being reliable ... looserounds.com has a bunch of articles on shooting and handling of the rifle. Pros Colt: * Chrome lined barrel. * Accept SR25/DPMS pattern magazines. * Streamlined compared to the Armalite .... Colt went back to the roots of the original ar10 and tried to slim down the overall size on the rifle. We can see this in the upper, lower receiver and BCG. * Already free floated ... not gunsmithing or modifications required. * 5.56 upper compatibility ... if that even matters Cons: * Unsure on the AR901-16S if you can change out the rail system to your liking. Im going to email Colt today on what can be done if a user wants to change out the rail system. Right now, Im either looking at the Armalite DEF10 or the COLT AR901-16S ... leaning more towards the COLT, just because I own and have shot extensively with Colt products, and Im just happy on how they work. Plus it has a chrome lined barrel. Would seriously consider the Armalite DEF10 if I couldn't change out the rail on the Colt AR901-16s. |
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Will the Armalite take an after Mkt Magpul stock? Are there easy to find free float tube for it? Would I be stuck with the rifle as is? Quoted:
Will the Armalite take an after Mkt Magpul stock? Are there easy to find free float tube for it? Would I be stuck with the rifle as is? They're fully compatible with aftermarket parts for the stock and handgaurds. boricua9mm: Call me crazy, but when you throw Armalite, Karl Lewis and the SR-25 all into one sentence, then the next thing out of most people's mouths will be "MWS."
It wasn't long ago that Armalite had issues producing rifles that could really go the distance, in terms of round count, without serious issues popping up. These kinds of things have been documented in courses ad competitions for quite some time. Granted, the current state of the AR10 world is drastically different, but I wouldn't be so quick to give everything Armalite a free pass. Well, Karl Lewis and his engineers designed the Eagle Arms/later ArmaLite Inc. AR10, using a Knight's SR-25 upper receiver and BCG as a foundation. The only issues I recall over the past 18 years with those rifles was the early Gen I modified M14 mags. Mine worked fine, but they weren't happy with them, and did some evolution with them. Doesn't matter, as they have been making reliable mags for a long time now, and DEF10 uses SR-25/PMAGs. The DEF10 can be found at busgunshop for $887 last I checked. |
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ARMALITE DEF10 http://www.armalite.com/Images/large%20images/Rifles/DEF10.jpg $890 for the rifle $30 Shipping $50 FFL transfer fee $400 for the rail ... WILSON COMBAT .... Ive searched for LARUE Armalite 308 Rails "discontinued" Daniel Defense 7.62 Armalite "discontinued" $60 for a low profile steel gas block $1430 without optics or BUIS sights COLT AR901-16S http://www.colt.com/DesktopModules/LiveContent/Handlers/GetImage.ashx?mid=879&eid=3&Type=View&PortalId=0 $1400 for the rifle $30 Shipping $50 FFL transfer $1480 without optics or BUIS sights So in all were looking at a $50.00 dollar difference between the two rifles. Might be an extra $100.00 for gunsmithing if you dont have the tools for the DEF10. Pros Armalite: * I like how the Armalite AR10 "DEF 10", has a proven track record with the reliability of their rifles in the AR10 platform. Plus the customer service and life time warranty. * Can take Magpul Pmag 308 and aftermarket DPMS/SR25 magazines. Cons Armalite: Chrome moly barrel ... not chrome lined. The COLT on the other hand has been fantastic in terms of being reliable ... looserounds.com has a bunch of articles on shooting and handling of the rifle. Pros Colt: * Chrome lined barrel. * Accept SR25/DPMS pattern magazines. * Streamlined compared to the Armalite .... Colt went back to the roots of the original ar10 and tried to slim down the overall size on the rifle. We can see this in the upper, lower receiver and BCG. * Already free floated ... not gunsmithing or modifications required. * 5.56 upper compatibility ... if that even matters Cons: * Unsure on the AR901-16S if you can change out the rail system to your liking. Im going to email Colt today on what can be done if a user wants to change out the rail system. Right now, Im either looking at the Armalite DEF10 or the COLT AR901-16S ... leaning more towards the COLT, just because I own and have shot extensively with Colt products, and Im just happy on how they work. Plus it has a chrome lined barrel. Would seriously consider the Armalite DEF10 if I couldn't change out the rail on the Colt AR901-16s. Or, he can just pay about $900 for the Armalite transferred, add a scope or basic sights of his choice, use it for plinking and hunting as he was asking about, and still be well below all of that noise you posted. |
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According to Armalite, the DEF10 does in fact come with a chrome lined barrel: http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=DEF10&ReturnUrl=Categories.aspx?Category=c4bf2a5c-d77d-4f58-8022-95f6afe8e6cf
I would go with the Armalite over the Colt based on barrel profile and overall weight alone. I frickin hate heavy profile barrels on fighting or hunting rifles. I would also prefer that rifle with that barrel profile in 20". |
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Or, he can just pay about $900 for the Armalite transferred, add a scope or basic sights of his choice, use it for plinking and hunting as he was asking about, and still be well below all of that noise you posted. Quoted:
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ARMALITE DEF10 http://www.armalite.com/Images/large%20images/Rifles/DEF10.jpg $890 for the rifle $30 Shipping $50 FFL transfer fee $400 for the rail ... WILSON COMBAT .... Ive searched for LARUE Armalite 308 Rails "discontinued" Daniel Defense 7.62 Armalite "discontinued" $60 for a low profile steel gas block $1430 without optics or BUIS sights COLT AR901-16S http://www.colt.com/DesktopModules/LiveContent/Handlers/GetImage.ashx?mid=879&eid=3&Type=View&PortalId=0 $1400 for the rifle $30 Shipping $50 FFL transfer $1480 without optics or BUIS sights So in all were looking at a $50.00 dollar difference between the two rifles. Might be an extra $100.00 for gunsmithing if you dont have the tools for the DEF10. Pros Armalite: * I like how the Armalite AR10 "DEF 10", has a proven track record with the reliability of their rifles in the AR10 platform. Plus the customer service and life time warranty. * Can take Magpul Pmag 308 and aftermarket DPMS/SR25 magazines. Cons Armalite: Chrome moly barrel ... not chrome lined. The COLT on the other hand has been fantastic in terms of being reliable ... looserounds.com has a bunch of articles on shooting and handling of the rifle. Pros Colt: * Chrome lined barrel. * Accept SR25/DPMS pattern magazines. * Streamlined compared to the Armalite .... Colt went back to the roots of the original ar10 and tried to slim down the overall size on the rifle. We can see this in the upper, lower receiver and BCG. * Already free floated ... not gunsmithing or modifications required. * 5.56 upper compatibility ... if that even matters Cons: * Unsure on the AR901-16S if you can change out the rail system to your liking. Im going to email Colt today on what can be done if a user wants to change out the rail system. Right now, Im either looking at the Armalite DEF10 or the COLT AR901-16S ... leaning more towards the COLT, just because I own and have shot extensively with Colt products, and Im just happy on how they work. Plus it has a chrome lined barrel. Would seriously consider the Armalite DEF10 if I couldn't change out the rail on the Colt AR901-16s. Or, he can just pay about $900 for the Armalite transferred, add a scope or basic sights of his choice, use it for plinking and hunting as he was asking about, and still be well below all of that noise you posted. Lol, or you can read below and see that I responded to the second part of question of the posters question about contemplating adding a rail system to the rifle. Thus turning the rifle to Colts 901 price point. Maybe instead of stroking your ego, you should take your EXPERT +4000 posts and sit on them. 
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Lol, or you can read below and see that I responded to the second part of question of the posters question about contemplating adding a rail system to the rifle. Thus turning the rifle to Colts 901 price point. Maybe instead of stroking your ego, you should take your EXPERT +4000 posts and sit on them. Quoted:
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ARMALITE DEF10 http://www.armalite.com/Images/large%20images/Rifles/DEF10.jpg $890 for the rifle $30 Shipping $50 FFL transfer fee $400 for the rail ... WILSON COMBAT .... Ive searched for LARUE Armalite 308 Rails "discontinued" Daniel Defense 7.62 Armalite "discontinued" $60 for a low profile steel gas block $1430 without optics or BUIS sights COLT AR901-16S http://www.colt.com/DesktopModules/LiveContent/Handlers/GetImage.ashx?mid=879&eid=3&Type=View&PortalId=0 $1400 for the rifle $30 Shipping $50 FFL transfer $1480 without optics or BUIS sights So in all were looking at a $50.00 dollar difference between the two rifles. Might be an extra $100.00 for gunsmithing if you dont have the tools for the DEF10. Pros Armalite: * I like how the Armalite AR10 "DEF 10", has a proven track record with the reliability of their rifles in the AR10 platform. Plus the customer service and life time warranty. * Can take Magpul Pmag 308 and aftermarket DPMS/SR25 magazines. Cons Armalite: Chrome moly barrel ... not chrome lined. The COLT on the other hand has been fantastic in terms of being reliable ... looserounds.com has a bunch of articles on shooting and handling of the rifle. Pros Colt: * Chrome lined barrel. * Accept SR25/DPMS pattern magazines. * Streamlined compared to the Armalite .... Colt went back to the roots of the original ar10 and tried to slim down the overall size on the rifle. We can see this in the upper, lower receiver and BCG. * Already free floated ... not gunsmithing or modifications required. * 5.56 upper compatibility ... if that even matters Cons: * Unsure on the AR901-16S if you can change out the rail system to your liking. Im going to email Colt today on what can be done if a user wants to change out the rail system. Right now, Im either looking at the Armalite DEF10 or the COLT AR901-16S ... leaning more towards the COLT, just because I own and have shot extensively with Colt products, and Im just happy on how they work. Plus it has a chrome lined barrel. Would seriously consider the Armalite DEF10 if I couldn't change out the rail on the Colt AR901-16s. Or, he can just pay about $900 for the Armalite transferred, add a scope or basic sights of his choice, use it for plinking and hunting as he was asking about, and still be well below all of that noise you posted. Lol, or you can read below and see that I responded to the second part of question of the posters question about contemplating adding a rail system to the rifle. Thus turning the rifle to Colts 901 price point. Maybe instead of stroking your ego, you should take your EXPERT +4000 posts and sit on them. He stated budget, and you came up with a bunch of nonsense, to include $30 shipping, most places don't charge shipping, and a $400 rail. He can throw a drop in rail on the Armalite, or even a free float system with a lo-pro gas block for $200 or less. Especially if he goes used, and does the work himself. Like I said, whole lot of noise. Perhaps it is more accurate to point out that your lack of post count signifies your lack of logic. |
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Or, he can just pay about $900 for the Armalite transferred, add a scope or basic sights of his choice, use it for plinking and hunting as he was asking about, and still be well below all of that noise you posted. And, if he REALLY needs an high-quality, inexpensive, free float rail, he can take solace in the fact that MI makes one: http://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=1118 |
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Not with standing the Flame war.
The production rifles I like the look of are 3K and have the Magpul adjustable stock. I am looking for a base unit I can build up from. No one pays shipping on items over a few 100's$ anymore. If you will cut the grass for an old gun dealer most often he or she will waive the transfer fee. I would not have found the Armalite with out you guys. I am still looking and asking questions. The Armalite will take AR-15 free float tubes or do they have to be a .308 tube? And when people say Armalite is getting smaller does it take the .223/5.56 Magpul stock or does it need the .308 one that is shorter? |
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Not with standing the Flame war. The production rifles I like the look of are 3K and have the Magpul adjustable stock. I am looking for a base unit I can build up from. No one pays shipping on items over a few 100's$ anymore. If you will cut the grass for an old gun dealer most often he or she will waive the transfer fee. I would not have found the Armalite with out you guys. I am still looking and asking questions. The Armalite will take AR-15 free float tubes or do they have to be a .308 tube? And when people say Armalite is getting smaller does it take the .223/5.56 Magpul stock or does it need the .308 one that is shorter? You want a tube made specifically for the AR-10. Aftermarket hand guards, like Magpul's MOE series, will not fit on the DEF-10. The same would hold true for the vast majority of flat tubes. |
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You want a tube made specifically for the AR-10. Aftermarket hand guards, like Magpul's MOE series, will not fit on the DEF-10. The same would hold true for the vast majority of flat tubes. Quoted:
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Not with standing the Flame war. The production rifles I like the look of are 3K and have the Magpul adjustable stock. I am looking for a base unit I can build up from. No one pays shipping on items over a few 100's$ anymore. If you will cut the grass for an old gun dealer most often he or she will waive the transfer fee. I would not have found the Armalite with out you guys. I am still looking and asking questions. The Armalite will take AR-15 free float tubes or do they have to be a .308 tube? And when people say Armalite is getting smaller does it take the .223/5.56 Magpul stock or does it need the .308 one that is shorter? You want a tube made specifically for the AR-10. Aftermarket hand guards, like Magpul's MOE series, will not fit on the DEF-10. The same would hold true for the vast majority of flat tubes. I don't understand what you are saying here. He should be able to install the appropriate size hand guards, from any company, on this rifle. And what are flat tubes? |
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Not with standing the Flame war. The production rifles I like the look of are 3K and have the Magpul adjustable stock. I am looking for a base unit I can build up from. No one pays shipping on items over a few 100's$ anymore. If you will cut the grass for an old gun dealer most often he or she will waive the transfer fee. I would not have found the Armalite with out you guys. I am still looking and asking questions. The Armalite will take AR-15 free float tubes or do they have to be a .308 tube? And when people say Armalite is getting smaller does it take the .223/5.56 Magpul stock or does it need the .308 one that is shorter? This is how my Windham 308 wound up being equipped. 
I could have installed a drop in mid-length rail, or they make a set up for a free float system. The rifle is weird as it takes an AR10 height rail, and has a DPMS style nut. I believe any standard AR10 rail should work on the Armalite. I also believe Armalite uses mil-spec dimension buffer tubes, so you should be able to install any MAGPUL stock you like. The same can be said of a commercial dimension tube, as they sell all, or most of their stocks in both styles but I don't think you need to worry about that. On my particular rifle, I had to install a mil-spec buffer tube because I only had extra mil-spec stocks. I only used the tube out of the complete AR15 kit I had. I used the OEM internals (spring and buffer) as the 308 buffer is shorter than a standard AR buffer. I am closer to $2500 in my rifle, with a base price of $1129 for the rifle, but that includes the high dollar Trjicon and a $200 trigger. If I had just bought a commercial stock for the rifle, I would have been around $1200. Figure $1400 for the stock and rail, if I went new. They also sell more variants of the WW308 now. Of course the price is going to go up with more accessories, but the gun is much lighter than lighter than the Colt. My 901 is the heaviest 308 I have. I would put it at as heavy as a piston rifle, if not a little more. |
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I don't understand what you are saying here. He should be able to install the appropriate size hand guards, from any company, on this rifle. And what are flat tubes? Quoted:
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Not with standing the Flame war. The production rifles I like the look of are 3K and have the Magpul adjustable stock. I am looking for a base unit I can build up from. No one pays shipping on items over a few 100's$ anymore. If you will cut the grass for an old gun dealer most often he or she will waive the transfer fee. I would not have found the Armalite with out you guys. I am still looking and asking questions. The Armalite will take AR-15 free float tubes or do they have to be a .308 tube? And when people say Armalite is getting smaller does it take the .223/5.56 Magpul stock or does it need the .308 one that is shorter? You want a tube made specifically for the AR-10. Aftermarket hand guards, like Magpul's MOE series, will not fit on the DEF-10. The same would hold true for the vast majority of flat tubes. I don't understand what you are saying here. He should be able to install the appropriate size hand guards, from any company, on this rifle. And what are flat tubes? That would be a typo  . Float tubes was what I meant.
What I'm saying is don't buy MOE mid-length hand guard and expect it to go on. They don't come in "AR10" size. In other words, learn from the mistake I made over the weekend. (The mid-length MOE hand guard) Look at the ID of the hand guards that come on the DEF-10 and compare it to the MOE hand guards. The DEF-10 hand guards have a larger ID than the MOE does. I'll try the set off my MP10 later tonight, but I'm telling you right now that they will not fit. The MOE hand guard was hard to get on the MP10. It was impossible to get on the DEF-10, without significant "Dremelfication" of said hand guard. With any float tube, I'd look for ones that are specifically compatible with "Armalite AR-10" rifles. There are several out there that specifically mention Armalite compatibility. I wouldn't count on DPMS-pattern rails working without modification, if they can be made to work at all. |
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That would be a typo . Float tubes was what I meant.
What I'm saying is don't buy MOE mid-length hand guard and expect it to go on. They don't come in "AR10" size. In other words, learn from the mistake I made over the weekend. (The mid-length MOE hand guard) Look at the ID of the hand guards that come on the DEF-10 and compare it to the MOE hand guards. The DEF-10 hand guards have a larger ID than the MOE does. I'll try the set off my MP10 later tonight, but I'm telling you right now that they will not fit. The MOE hand guard was hard to get on the MP10. It was impossible to get on the DEF-10, without significant "Dremelfication" of said hand guard. With any float tube, I'd look for ones that are specifically compatible with "Armalite AR-10" rifles. There are several out there that specifically mention Armalite compatibility. I wouldn't count on DPMS-pattern rails working without modification, if they can be made to work at all. Quoted:
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Not with standing the Flame war. The production rifles I like the look of are 3K and have the Magpul adjustable stock. I am looking for a base unit I can build up from. No one pays shipping on items over a few 100's$ anymore. If you will cut the grass for an old gun dealer most often he or she will waive the transfer fee. I would not have found the Armalite with out you guys. I am still looking and asking questions. The Armalite will take AR-15 free float tubes or do they have to be a .308 tube? And when people say Armalite is getting smaller does it take the .223/5.56 Magpul stock or does it need the .308 one that is shorter? You want a tube made specifically for the AR-10. Aftermarket hand guards, like Magpul's MOE series, will not fit on the DEF-10. The same would hold true for the vast majority of flat tubes. I don't understand what you are saying here. He should be able to install the appropriate size hand guards, from any company, on this rifle. And what are flat tubes? That would be a typo . Float tubes was what I meant.
What I'm saying is don't buy MOE mid-length hand guard and expect it to go on. They don't come in "AR10" size. In other words, learn from the mistake I made over the weekend. (The mid-length MOE hand guard) Look at the ID of the hand guards that come on the DEF-10 and compare it to the MOE hand guards. The DEF-10 hand guards have a larger ID than the MOE does. I'll try the set off my MP10 later tonight, but I'm telling you right now that they will not fit. The MOE hand guard was hard to get on the MP10. It was impossible to get on the DEF-10, without significant "Dremelfication" of said hand guard. With any float tube, I'd look for ones that are specifically compatible with "Armalite AR-10" rifles. There are several out there that specifically mention Armalite compatibility. I wouldn't count on DPMS-pattern rails working without modification, if they can be made to work at all. I just installed a set of rifle length MOE handguards on my full size Armalite AR10, so I am not sure what you are talking about. And as you can see in my picture, I installed a mid-length set on my WW308. 
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I just installed a set of rifle length MOE handguards on my full size Armalite AR10, so I am not sure what you are talking about. And as you can see in my picture, I installed a mid-length set on my WW308. <a href="http://s1051.photobucket.com/user/613ForSalePics/media/PermForThreads/DSC02943_zpsa37c5293.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s429/613ForSalePics/PermForThreads/DSC02943_zpsa37c5293.jpg</a> That's great, but you did that on a full size AR-10, right? You haven't tried it on a DEF-10, right? I have. They DO NOT fit. I can't put it any more plainly. If you want, I can post comparison pictures later tonight. The MOE hand guard required a SIGNIFICANT amount of material to be removed in order to go on the rifle. Comparing the MOE hand guards to the MOE hand guards showed the hand guards that came with the DEF-10 had a larger ID at the barrel nut end than the MOE had. They went just fine on my MP10, just like they did on your Bushmaster. |
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That's great, but you did that on a full size AR-10, right? You haven't tried it on a DEF-10, right? I have. They DO NOT fit. I can't put it any more plainly. If you want, I can post comparison pictures later tonight. The MOE hand guard required a SIGNIFICANT amount of material to be removed in order to go on the rifle. Comparing the MOE hand guards to the MOE hand guards showed the hand guards that came with the DEF-10 had a larger ID at the barrel nut end than the MOE had. They went just fine on my MP10, just like they did on your Bushmaster. Quoted:
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I just installed a set of rifle length MOE handguards on my full size Armalite AR10, so I am not sure what you are talking about. And as you can see in my picture, I installed a mid-length set on my WW308. <a href="http://s1051.photobucket.com/user/613ForSalePics/media/PermForThreads/DSC02943_zpsa37c5293.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s429/613ForSalePics/PermForThreads/DSC02943_zpsa37c5293.jpg</a> That's great, but you did that on a full size AR-10, right? You haven't tried it on a DEF-10, right? I have. They DO NOT fit. I can't put it any more plainly. If you want, I can post comparison pictures later tonight. The MOE hand guard required a SIGNIFICANT amount of material to be removed in order to go on the rifle. Comparing the MOE hand guards to the MOE hand guards showed the hand guards that came with the DEF-10 had a larger ID at the barrel nut end than the MOE had. They went just fine on my MP10, just like they did on your Bushmaster. That is correct. You said there are no "AR10" MOE handguards. So I installed an MOE handguard on my AR10. If you are now saying that the DEF-10 has a proprietary barrel nut, which prevents MOE handguard installation, that is different than what you stated earlier. When you states different IDs earlier, I thought you were referring to the front, where the MOE is designed to accommodate different styles of front cap. Some people don't line them up correctly and think they are incompatible. |
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That is correct. You said there are no "AR10" MOE handguards. So I installed an MOE handguard on my AR10. If you are now saying that the DEF-10 has a proprietary barrel nut, which prevents MOE handguard installation, that is different than what you stated earlier. When you states different IDs earlier, I thought you were referring to the front, where the MOE is designed to accommodate different styles of front cap. Some people don't line them up correctly and think they are incompatible. Quoted:
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I just installed a set of rifle length MOE handguards on my full size Armalite AR10, so I am not sure what you are talking about. And as you can see in my picture, I installed a mid-length set on my WW308. <a href="http://s1051.photobucket.com/user/613ForSalePics/media/PermForThreads/DSC02943_zpsa37c5293.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s429/613ForSalePics/PermForThreads/DSC02943_zpsa37c5293.jpg</a> That's great, but you did that on a full size AR-10, right? You haven't tried it on a DEF-10, right? I have. They DO NOT fit. I can't put it any more plainly. If you want, I can post comparison pictures later tonight. The MOE hand guard required a SIGNIFICANT amount of material to be removed in order to go on the rifle. Comparing the MOE hand guards to the MOE hand guards showed the hand guards that came with the DEF-10 had a larger ID at the barrel nut end than the MOE had. They went just fine on my MP10, just like they did on your Bushmaster. That is correct. You said there are no "AR10" MOE handguards. So I installed an MOE handguard on my AR10. If you are now saying that the DEF-10 has a proprietary barrel nut, which prevents MOE handguard installation, that is different than what you stated earlier. When you states different IDs earlier, I thought you were referring to the front, where the MOE is designed to accommodate different styles of front cap. Some people don't line them up correctly and think they are incompatible. Thanks for the lesson in semantics. What I originally said was "Aftermarket hand guards, like Magpul's MOE series, will not fit on the DEF-10." If you're now STILL stating you don't know what I mean, I don't know what to tell you. You cannot prove what I said is wrong, because it isn't. Lesson learned. Don't try to help the guy asking questions. I'll just stay out of the damn tech forums, from now on. For the record, the hand guards off the DEF-10 are 1/16" teller than those on the MP10. Hopefully someone will find this information beneficial. |
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Thanks for the lesson in semantics. What I originally said was "Aftermarket hand guards, like Magpul's MOE series, will not fit on the DEF-10." If you're now STILL stating you don't know what I mean, I don't know what to tell you. You cannot prove what I said is wrong, because it isn't. Lesson learned. Don't try to help the guy asking questions. I'll just stay out of the damn tech forums, from now on. For the record, the hand guards off the DEF-10 are 1/16" teller than those on the MP10. Hopefully someone will find this information beneficial. Quoted:
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I just installed a set of rifle length MOE handguards on my full size Armalite AR10, so I am not sure what you are talking about. And as you can see in my picture, I installed a mid-length set on my WW308. <a href="http://s1051.photobucket.com/user/613ForSalePics/media/PermForThreads/DSC02943_zpsa37c5293.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s429/613ForSalePics/PermForThreads/DSC02943_zpsa37c5293.jpg</a> That's great, but you did that on a full size AR-10, right? You haven't tried it on a DEF-10, right? I have. They DO NOT fit. I can't put it any more plainly. If you want, I can post comparison pictures later tonight. The MOE hand guard required a SIGNIFICANT amount of material to be removed in order to go on the rifle. Comparing the MOE hand guards to the MOE hand guards showed the hand guards that came with the DEF-10 had a larger ID at the barrel nut end than the MOE had. They went just fine on my MP10, just like they did on your Bushmaster. That is correct. You said there are no "AR10" MOE handguards. So I installed an MOE handguard on my AR10. If you are now saying that the DEF-10 has a proprietary barrel nut, which prevents MOE handguard installation, that is different than what you stated earlier. When you states different IDs earlier, I thought you were referring to the front, where the MOE is designed to accommodate different styles of front cap. Some people don't line them up correctly and think they are incompatible. Thanks for the lesson in semantics. What I originally said was "Aftermarket hand guards, like Magpul's MOE series, will not fit on the DEF-10." If you're now STILL stating you don't know what I mean, I don't know what to tell you. You cannot prove what I said is wrong, because it isn't. Lesson learned. Don't try to help the guy asking questions. I'll just stay out of the damn tech forums, from now on. For the record, the hand guards off the DEF-10 are 1/16" teller than those on the MP10. Hopefully someone will find this information beneficial. I didn't state I longer understood what you meant. I pointed out that your information made no sense. This is what you stated. Quoted:
You want a tube made specifically for the AR-10. Aftermarket hand guards, like Magpul's MOE series, will not fit on the DEF-10. The same would hold true for the vast majority of flat tubes. And without the clarification that the Armalite has a proprietary handguard and barrel nut, according to you, that information does not make sense. Don't get mad at other people because your communication sucks. |
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I will put in my vote for the Armalite DSR10. I actually own one and humped that sucker around Owl Mountain in Colorado for 7 days during 3rd rifle elk this year. I added a different pistol grip,trigger guard, RRA 2-stage trigger, muzzle devise and stock but my mid length Magpul hand guard would not fit it. It seemed that the hand guard was a cunt hair to long and would not fit. I plan on installing the MI AR10 SS-Keymod once the holidays roll around and maybe catch a sale. As pictured the rifle weight was 9.5lbs with 5 rounds in the magazine with a -5 Magpul block.
Edit: When looking for hand guards you need to make sure that they will be compatible with Armalite AR10A. Some people think AR10 covers all manufactures but it doesnt. I will let the more knowledgeable guys jump in to list the differences but if you decide to pick up the Armalite make sure that the hand guards would be compatible with the AR10A and not the AR10B as the DSR uses AR10A parts. The pistol grip, trigger and stock were all extra parts I had laying around for an AR15 build so upgrading those in the future would be easy and the parts would most likely be available. The gas block is also .750 inside diameter which again is the same as most Ar15 barrels so you finding a low profile gas block would be easy. 
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Well, that was both interesting and informative. I am in the same boat, looking for a value .308 mainly for range days and the ease of a semi auto for plinking. Thanks for the information.
I would like to add a question regarding accuracy. Could someone speak to the overall accuracy of either the DEF 10 16", and or debate whether a longer barrel length makes much difference. I only own 1 other .308 and it's a Rem 700 tactical short barrel, it's pretty solid to 500 yards with a good day reaching out around 700. Could one expect to be on paper at 500 yards with this rifle, and maybe grouping well out to 250+, or am i reaching? TYVM Also, is it safe to shoot both .308 WIN and 7.62x51 marked ammo in the DEF 10, assuming there is a difference in pressures similar to 5.56 vs 223? |
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Well, that was both interesting and informative. I am in the same boat, looking for a value .308 mainly for range days and the ease of a semi auto for plinking. Thanks for the information. I would like to add a question regarding accuracy. Could someone speak to the overall accuracy of either the DEF 10 16", and or debate whether a longer barrel length makes much difference. I only own 1 other .308 and it's a Rem 700 tactical short barrel, it's pretty solid to 500 yards with a good day reaching out around 700. Could one expect to be on paper at 500 yards with this rifle, and maybe grouping well out to 250+, or am i reaching? TYVM Also, is it safe to shoot both .308 WIN and 7.62x51 marked ammo in the DEF 10, assuming there is a difference in pressures similar to 5.56 vs 223? I can only speak about my experience with the DEF10. With 165gr Factory loaded Nosler Accubonds. I was shooting 1" groups at 100 yards and just over 3" groups at 300. That was with out a free float hand guard. I expect the groupings to get a little better but for a hunting rifle with shots under 300 yards Im more then happy. I think it could reach out further and be fairly accurate but I think a bull/target barrel would be more accurate but would come at a cost of extra pounds which to be is a negative in a hunting rifle. As for a shorter barrels performance over a longer barrel I think the difference under 300 yards is negligible. Its only when you reach out further is when the longer barrel would be preferred. There are smarter people on here that could explain that better or maybe say Im wrong. |
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It is a little more than $1000, but I have been pretty happy with my Windham Weaponry 308. With that being said, had I known about this Armalite when I bought the WW, I probably would have gone with the Armalite on account of the lower price. On the other hand, it looks like the S&W rifle, which I don't like that much, maybe just because of the similar barrel profile, but the S&W sure is light. Just a little bit more...CLICK HERE for Bud's. |
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Does anyone make an 18" barrel .308 in the cheaper realm? I don't think so. DPMS LR-308B That thing looks like a Hi-Point version of an AR. I would never pay anywhere near $1000 for one of those. By anywhere near, I wouldn't drop $500 on it. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Budget .308 (Page 1 of 2)
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