AR Sponsor
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Colt Grendel (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 9/4/2012 3:24:28 PM EDT
|
Colt is making a 6.5 Grendel now. I've been aware of it for about a year, but was held to keeping my mouth shut. I haven't told a soul. It's now open source, so there you go:
Grendel section is at 3:02 forward... Gun Talk TV http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_29/223836_.html&page=1&anc=bottom#bottom |
|
Are the Colt Competition rifles just Colt slapping their brand name on a 3rd party manufactured firearm? I seem to recall reading or hearing that somewhere. I was right, on the bottom of their webpage is the following. COLT COMPETITION RIFLES are licensed products of New Colt Holding Corp. and manufactured by Bold Ideas of Canby, Oregon, USA. |
|
Yes Colt is setting up to manufacture the Grendel, initially in the competition guns.
We have been working with Colt on this project for a number of years but until they released the project it was obviously not possible to say anything. The adoption of the caliber by Colt is another major milestone for the 6.5 Grendel and we are pleased to have another prominent company working with the caliber. Colt brings with it a huge amount of knowledge both on the weapon system but also the market both domestic and overseas. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Very exciting. The only reason I don't have one yet is ammo... Ah! useful feedback. What are you waiting for? Should have been somewhat more precise in the question. Is there a particular ammunition nature that you are waiting for? Any solid ETA on Steel Cased? I know its the question in the back of every Grendel Owner's mind! 
|
|
No we do not honestly have a solid ETA on the steel yet.
We have now tested everything currently requested and provided the reports. Additionally we attended meetings in IWA and have now shipped a number of rifles for testing purposes to the plant in Russia. The factory did hold it's anniversary in collaboration with Molot at which they demonstrated Grendel ammunition in the AK platform for their customers and we are told it was exceptionally well received, although we did not attend. A plant visit was the first indication that they intend to tool a dedicated production line for the caliber rather than run it between batches of other ammunition, which was a very pleasant surprise and they reiterated their desire to produce and market the caliber within the US. This is the purpose of the rifles we supplied. They want to ensure that the production ammunition runs well in the AR platform as well as the AK which is very sound judgement given the market. That is about as comprehensive a report as we can give at the moment. We are still timetabled to attend a sign off in September at the military test ground but I will question this as the export documentation took longer than expected. Cannot specifically say what bullet they will load yet. We have seen several different types loaded but many of these were simply to serve as proof shot. I am still hopeful we will get a derivative of the 5.45x39 projectile scaled to fit at 110 grains, which has been on the table for some time now. Tested well! |
|
Forgot to add, the Colt guns will be set to function with this ammunition. Colt was extremely interested in the work that is being undertaken on steel case design and we had several conversations about the way the breach is dimensioned. Once pressure gets much above 52,000 psi the AR is rather lightly build for a steel case and you get extraction problems as the steel is less elastic than brass.
I am very excited about Colt's entry into the Grendel market. They have great products and the market and shooters will benefit from this. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Very exciting. The only reason I don't have one yet is ammo... Ah! useful feedback. What are you waiting for? Should have been somewhat more precise in the question. Is there a particular ammunition nature that you are waiting for? Regular stores and local shops to carry it. |
|
Quoted:
AA, when will we see cheaper reloading brass? I sold my Grendel a year ago after having it for 4 years because of the cost to feed it. Are there any plans for a cheaper line of brass to hit the market? AA sells Lapua Grendel brass for $72/100, and it often goes on sale for $66. They sell Hornady brass for $60/100. For quality brass, those prices are hard to beat, especially compared with Lapua prices for brass from anywhere else. The Lapua brass lasts a long time, especially when you stick to your published load data, so you get more loadings and longevity with the Lapua brass. For a reloader, the Grendel has the third largest selection of projectiles, behind .30 and .224 calibers, and I'm still searching for samples of all the 6.5mm pills from just big-name manufacturers. There are a lot of projectiles with BC's over .420 in just the 120-130gr weight class, and most of those are hunting pills. I'm about halfway through, but need to call it at some point because the rate at which manufacturers are introducing new projectiles is faster than I can source them for the photo spread. Lapua has just added the Scenar-L, and their 120gr Scenar-L is in this photo. Hunting pills are on the left, target on the right. 85-110gr on bottom row, 120-130gr middle row, and 139-160gr on top row. Guys have been getting good results with the 160gr in subsonic applications, with insane penetration through multiple water jugs, while retaining heavy impact on steel. 
As Colt is re-orienting their business posture to the larger civilian marketplace, they really did their homework before covering down on one of the newer alternate calibers for the AR15 platform, since the Grendel is an all-round great caliber for the AR15, whether for hunting medium game, pushing the effective range of a light self-loader, or military applications. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
AA, when will we see cheaper reloading brass? I sold my Grendel a year ago after having it for 4 years because of the cost to feed it. Are there any plans for a cheaper line of brass to hit the market? AA sells Lapua Grendel brass for $72/100, and it often goes on sale for $66. They sell Hornady brass for $60/100. For quality brass, those prices are hard to beat, especially compared with Lapua prices for brass from anywhere else. The Lapua brass lasts a long time, especially when you stick to your published load data, so you get more loadings and longevity with the Lapua brass. For a reloader, the Grendel has the third largest selection of projectiles, behind .30 and .224 calibers, and I'm still searching for samples of all the 6.5mm pills from just big-name manufacturers. There are a lot of projectiles with BC's over .420 in just the 120-130gr weight class, and most of those are hunting pills. I'm about halfway through, but need to call it at some point because the rate at which manufacturers are introducing new projectiles is faster than I can source them for the photo spread. Lapua has just added the Scenar-L, and their 120gr Scenar-L is in this photo. Hunting pills are on the left, target on the right. 85-110gr on bottom row, 120-130gr middle row, and 139-160gr on top row. Guys have been getting good results with the 160gr in subsonic applications, with insane penetration through multiple water jugs, while retaining heavy impact on steel. http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/2012-09-01065555.jpg As Colt is re-orienting their business posture to the larger civilian marketplace, they really did their homework before covering down on one of the newer alternate calibers for the AR15 platform, since the Grendel is an all-round great caliber for the AR15, whether for hunting medium game, pushing the effective range of a light self-loader, or military applications. In my book AA's $72 for 100 is not cheap (it was on sale $55 for 100) and you hardly ever see Hornady down to $60 per 100. I would not mind paying those price if I were shooting a bolt gun but this is an ar 15 with 25 round magazine. I got tried of having to use a brass catcher or count my brass after I was done shooting. I am well aware of the bullet selection in 6.5, I keep all my reloading supplies; 107,108, 120, 123, 129, and so on. I got into reloading 5 years ago because of the Grendel, the more calibers I started reloading the more I realized how costly it was compared to other calibers. I don't see why Grendel brass cannot be cheaper, it is comparable 7.62x39 brass I know the tooling is different. I can find 6.8 spc brass for $45 per 100 all day long. Me and about 10 other guys I shoot with are waiting to see what come of 6.5 G steel case and 6.8 Spc federal and steel case thing. I hope the 6.5 Grendel gets a cheaper brass line and steel case. Bottom line in opinion we need cheaper 6.5 Grendel brass. |
|
The problem with defining cheap brass is that it will frequently be just that "cheap brass" What I think is needed is an economical source of good brass. If you sole goal is cheap, then the Wolf Gold provides cheap shooting and a source for brass cases but at the expense of some case loss due to the soft nature of some batches. That said many reload these cases with success.
Steel case ammunition now progressing and we are pleased with both the progress and the commitment of the factory. Their thorough approach has been frustrating from a timeline perspective but a quality product from the initial delivery is advantageous especially when the caliber is growing. I am pleased that they are developing a caliber corrected projectile for the loading and not just using an off the shelf item. It is also good to see a dedicated line. Initial capacity will be excessive but they intend to explore the European market as well as the US Colt's entry into the caliber will add some significant momentum to the market. It should no go amiss that there will be a spill over into the military side of the house and while nothing is certain, Colt is well represented and listened too in this arena. The steel cased ammunition with a 110 grain projectile allows for a net increase in operational capability (range, protected man target, barrier) with little increase in magazine weight over Mk262 in the same magazines. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Just saw this . . . these aren't even colt rifles. Yeah, I just saw that too. CONGRATS on it! Good luck with it G folks!! 
Happily these will be Colt rifles. With the differences from the 5.56 we have been working with Colt directly on the details. I think that Colt brand Grendels will do well in the market. The Grendel has lacked mainstream support which the Colt name brings. They have been extremely detailed in the examination of the operation with steel case ammunition as well as general critique of the caliber. They have tested a wide variety of barrel lengths from 10" through 24" |
|
Quoted:Happily these will be Colt rifles. Colt providing licencing and manufacturing rights for a 3rd party manufacturer to slap their name on a product is hardly my definition of a "Colt rifle". For all I know they may end up with an outstanding end product but all I have in my head are those piece of shit plastic .22's that were licensed to carry the Colt brand logo. Colt made is not the same as Colt branded, while this not general discussion and is in a tech forum the concerns related to that fact should be expanded upon.
|
|
We are working directly with Colt on the Grendel rifles. They have been undertaking the testing.
As before happily these will be Colt rifles. What many of the onlookers are not aware of is that we have been talking with Colt for over two years. This is not a rush to market for either party but a long consideration of the available calibers and a shrewd choice based upon upcoming events. We are extremely pleased that Grendel now has another major player in the market and believe that this will do nothing but help the shooting community. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Very exciting. The only reason I don't have one yet is ammo... Ah! useful feedback. What are you waiting for? Should have been somewhat more precise in the question. Is there a particular ammunition nature that you are waiting for? Impressed you guys are here looking for feedback
Nature? I assume you mean what conditions need to be present. More online vendors/manufacturers, with ammunition actually in stock. A wide selection without the need to reload. Price needs to be relative. I do not mind $20-25 per box of match ammo, I do, however, mind $11-15 (ballpark) for general use ammo. And more quality magazine manufacturers. Basically; just a healthy environment for the round to grow further....... Kinda like a plant
|
I love my Colt LE6920 and my Loki 6.5 Grendel so it makes perfect sense to add a Colt 6.5 Grendel to the collection  . It's definitely going on the "must have" list!
The 6.5 Grendel is gonna just keep getting more and more popular which means more ammo company's are going to start making it and prices will begin to drop. I don't reload (yet) so I bought 500 rounds of Hornady A-Max so that I'll have a good starting supply of brass when the time comes. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:Happily these will be Colt rifles.
Colt providing licencing and manufacturing rights for a 3rd party manufacturer to slap their name on a product is hardly my definition of a "Colt rifle". For all I know they may end up with an outstanding end product but all I have in my head are those piece of shit plastic .22's that were licensed to carry the Colt brand logo. Colt made is not the same as Colt branded, while this not general discussion and is in a tech forum the concerns related to that fact should be expanded upon. this site get's better every day...hahaha gotta love it |
| I'd like to see the ammo at 7-8 $ a 20 count box. 14-20 bucks for 20 rounds of what's available now is just too rich to have fun with. Like one poster said, this is not a bolt gun and paying twice what 5.56 costs is just not economical, probably for most shooters. I hope the steel ammo works out and gets the price down to where I can justify an upper. It looks like a fun caliber to shoot, but price rules the day. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Good news for Grendel fans, a major manufacturer to fill the hole left by Sabre's demise. My thoughts as well. I was fortunate to jump on the 6.5 Grendel bandwagon very early on as soon as they were available...here are my 2 Sabre Defence 6.5 Grendels
M4 Carbine 14.5" w/extended A2 flash hider (1/7.5 twist) & my 20" PMR (1/9 twist) - I was curious as to the difference in the twist rates for a 14.5" barrel and the 20" barrel. Sabre advised that their R&D verified these were the "sweet spots" for each barrel length? Bill, will you be able to confirm or, deny this since - the 6.5 Grendel is your baby  - Thanks in advance!
|
|
Quoted: Glad I could entertain you, its all in the semantics for me. I am not throwing the concept, the round, or rifle under the bus just the idea that an outsourced product should be re-badged / re-branded through licensing (yes I know this is commonplace practice). this bothers me in any industry especially those that buy generic products throw their name on it and charge 200% more than the equivalent generic product based on name recognition.this site get's better every day...hahaha gotta love it Though from AA's last response it sounds like that may not be the case, and as such it is now irrelevant to the conversation so I'll leave it alone at this point. |
|
Quoted:
I'd like to see the ammo at 7-8 $ a 20 count box. 14-20 bucks for 20 rounds of what's available now is just too rich to have fun with. Like one poster said, this is not a bolt gun and paying twice what 5.56 costs is just not economical, probably for most shooters. I hope the steel ammo works out and gets the price down to where I can justify an upper. It looks like a fun caliber to shoot, but price rules the day. Got it! That is a good level of feedback and follows what we are working for. I would tgank you and the others that have posted such. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Good news for Grendel fans, a major manufacturer to fill the hole left by Sabre's demise. My thoughts as well. I was fortunate to jump on the 6.5 Grendel bandwagon very early on as soon as they were available...here are my 2 Sabre Defence 6.5 Grendels
M4 Carbine 14.5" w/extended A2 flash hider (1/7.5 twist) & my 20" PMR (1/9 twist) - I was curious as to the difference in the twist rates for a 14.5" barrel and the 20" barrel. Sabre advised that their R&D verified these were the "sweet spots" for each barrel length? Bill, will you be able to confirm or, deny this since - the 6.5 Grendel is your baby - Thanks in advance!
http://i50.tinypic.com/10z1l5i.jpg http://i46.tinypic.com/ei5s92.jpg http://i49.tinypic.com/38obq.jpg http://i46.tinypic.com/2nhhond.jpg http://i50.tinypic.com/v3dmwh.jpg You do have to balance the twist rate to the barrel length to get the best from these very aerodynamic projectiles. Simply the bullet has an optimum rpm which is largely independent of Mv. A shorter barrel needs a faster twist to get the RPM while a longer barrel with a higher Mv runs a slower twist. Over spinning the projectile with a fast twist in a long barrel leads to a situation known as overstabilized. It is when the bullet returns from the apex of it's path in the same orientation it left the barrel, nose up, not nose down. |
|
Quoted:
I've built enough ARs and am at the point now where i just want to buy one and go shoot it.....I just so happen to also want a 6.5 Grendel. looks like i may be picking up a Colt. When are they expected to be released? advntrjnky That is really a question for the Colt guys. I know they have guns built up now and they are getting ready for the distributor and dealer shows. |
|
Quoted:
Pertaining to other manufacturers getting in the grendel game, when is the soonest possible date were gonna see that steel case come out? The design sign off is still scheduled for this month but I feel that this will be optimistic based on the time available to complete testing. The Russians want to ensure that the ammunition is compatible with both chrome lined and also stainless steel Grendel chambers in the AR platform. I would anticipate that the initial batches will be available before the end of this year, but this will be limited, When you say "when are we going to see steel case" that will depend upon where you are looking. The trickle down into the distribution chain may be slower for some places than others. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Good news for Grendel fans, a major manufacturer to fill the hole left by Sabre's demise. My thoughts as well. I was fortunate to jump on the 6.5 Grendel bandwagon very early on as soon as they were available...here are my 2 Sabre Defence 6.5 Grendels
M4 Carbine 14.5" w/extended A2 flash hider (1/7.5 twist) & my 20" PMR (1/9 twist) - I was curious as to the difference in the twist rates for a 14.5" barrel and the 20" barrel. Sabre advised that their R&D verified these were the "sweet spots" for each barrel length? Bill, will you be able to confirm or, deny this since - the 6.5 Grendel is your baby - Thanks in advance!
You do have to balance the twist rate to the barrel length to get the best from these very aerodynamic projectiles. Simply the bullet has an optimum rpm which is largely independent of Mv. A shorter barrel needs a faster twist to get the RPM while a longer barrel with a higher Mv runs a slower twist. Over spinning the projectile with a fast twist in a long barrel leads to a situation known as overstabilized. It is when the bullet returns from the apex of it's path in the same orientation it left the barrel, nose up, not nose down. Very interesting - thanks a million Bill, I appreciate your input & knowledge to educate us on the 6.5 Grendel...cheers! 
|
|
Bill,
We appreciate your feedback. I'll simply echo what others have said about factory-loaded ammo availability and pricing. I'd love to get into a 6.5G, but haven't started reloading (yet). While I've no problem with working up loads for precision shooting, this is still an AR-15 we're talking about, and the occasional mag dumps are still fun. I don't want to feel forced into reloading to simply procure bunch of cheap, "fun" ammo to shoot cans and fruits and vegetables with. Plinking with 6.5G is economically foolish at this point, which is what keeps me from pulling the trigger (pardon the pun) on the cartridge. |
|
PPU brass-cased 120gr MPT loads have been available for a while, and can be found for as low as $12.95 a box.
There are really all the loadings you could want from AA and Precision Firearms, and you end up with Lapua brass when you're done, which can be sold for good money if you don't reload. AA 6.5 Grendel Factory Ammo Precision Firearms 6.5 Grendel Ammo AIM Surplus 6.5 Grendel The Hornady 123gr AMAX is showing up on shelves more and more, and has been at several brick and mortar stores in my area for years now. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Colt Grendel (Page 1 of 2)
AR Sponsor