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Posted: 6/7/2010 1:07:38 PM EDT
Final group shot with tightbore test barrel 5 shots at 100yards 1.250" and 2040FPS. Its looking like this one wont be under an inch anytime soon
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Those are 180 gr. bullets, the flat tip a Speer Hot Core on the left and the Hornady on the right is a single shot pistol bullet.
The Hornady is only good to 2400 fps (well within his limit) but the Speer is good for 2900+ fps-that direct from Speer. I am working with the Speer bullet in my .358 HDH which is churning out 2550 fps (LR-308) and a guy I know is getting over 2900 out of the .358 Grant (bolt gun), and the bullets are holding up fine. |
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I don't know what twist you are using, but the big bore AR's that I have built in the past (several hundred), always shot best with really slow twist barrels. It is even more important if you are shooting a bullet that is short/light for caliber.
Tony Rumore Tromix Corp |
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Thanks Tony
I know i need a slower twist this one is a 1-20twist (reason) it was cheap and made a good test barrel or i might just leave it as is.As this is a 200 yard gun tops. I would like to try a 1-22 or 1-24 but need to have one made and how much more accurate will i get it. Is it really worth it i dont know how accurate it would get with the bullets dia. and short length. Quoted:
I don't know what twist you are using, but the big bore AR's that I have built in the past (several hundred), always shot best with really slow twist barrels. It is even more important if you are shooting a bullet that is short/light for caliber. Tony Rumore Tromix Corp |
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Quoted:
Those are 180 gr. bullets, the flat tip a Speer Hot Core on the left and the Hornady on the right is a single shot pistol bullet. The Hornady is only good to 2400 fps (well within his limit) but the Speer is good for 2900+ fps-that direct from Speer. I am working with the Speer bullet in my .358 HDH which is churning out 2550 fps (LR-308) and a guy I know is getting over 2900 out of the .358 Grant (bolt gun), and the bullets are holding up fine. 180gr Correct the Hornady will work on any animal its capable of but if you want a tougher bullet the speer hot-cor is the way to go and with this barrel being a tight bore these are the only bullets that can be used in it. |
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Something that might be interesting to try is the Barnes .357 140gr XPB with a tip epoxied on . This would be a fun bullet but it wont stabilize well from being so short i would need a much slower twist rate but it would be fun for coyotes maybe one day i will see what kind of velocity i can get and then build a barrel to work with this bullet. Right now im trying to get the best accuracy with the Hornady 180gr SP/SSP. |
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What is the difference between this wildcat and the 358 Gremlin by BFG Cartridges?
358 Gremlin |
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What is the difference between this wildcat and the 358 Gremlin by BFG Cartridges? 358 Gremlin  +1 Me Too... Was watching the Gremlin, as I have a Marlin .35 Rem. and a 7.62x39 AR but it never seemed to go any where. I finally bought a .458 Socom for my "Big" rifle.
Jack |
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What is the difference between this wildcat and the 358 Gremlin by BFG Cartridges? 358 Gremlin My wildcat uses standard 6.8 bolt face and modified PRI mags the only downside of this round is it uses a large rifle primer would like to have some brass made with a small rifle primer to push it a little harder the load that im useing now is only 37000psi so the large rifle primer is not a problem but when i push it up in the 50000-52000psi range it stretchs the primer pocket but i have found that as long as i keep it under 45000psi there is no problems and i have loaded these cases over 7 times and the nice thing is there is no case streching at all which means no trimming which is nice. ETA: My wildcat does not use the 6.8spc case its too short. Bryan's Gremlin is just a different case not really any performance differances Here's the archive link of my 358MGP http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=121&t=415848 |
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When i have Kreiger make me my custom barrel then i can get 2400FPS out of an 18"
barrel with low pressures but until then i will have to continue to play with this 16.5" tight bore barrel 2000-2100FPS does a nasty job with the Hornady 180gr SP/SSP. The coyote i shot at 160 yards you could of stuck your hand in the exit hole and it knocked him off of his feet i cant wait until rifle season this year to test it on whitetail and would love to test it out on some boars or blackbear. |
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What is the difference between this wildcat and the 358 Gremlin by BFG Cartridges? 358 Gremlin +1 Me Too... Was watching the Gremlin, as I have a Marlin .35 Rem. and a 7.62x39 AR but it never seemed to go any where. I finally bought a .458 Socom for my "Big" rifle.
Jack I looked at both and I will probably end up with the Gremlin but only because it is shorter and, therefore, legal for deer in Indiana as a "pistol caliber." |
| Why so slow a twist? General 358 twist are 1:10, 12, and 14. I did mine in 1:14 and it stabilizes everything from 225 gr. X to 180 gr. Speer just fine. Unless you are going with even lighter bullets, like pistol bullets, I fail to see why a 1:20 or 22 would be advantageous, and they would be ruinous if you want to go with heavier 250-300 gr. bullets. |
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I would love a 358cal 200gr RN @ 2300fps from the AR-15 platform... 20" or less. Look at any of the versions of .358 WSSM, my own version the .358 HDH, and you can get this. I also did mine for an Indiana deer legal cartridge. Dtech is building AR-15 (Olympic) uppers in .358 WSSM and while I did mine on the LR-308, there really is no need to do so. The only reason I did it on the LR-308 action was because I wanted the ability to go long and heavy on the bullets without eating up powder space, but if you are keeping it at 225 gr. or lighter the AR-15 offers plenty of room in the mag and the base of the bullet will not be below the base of the neck. Redding is now offering dies in the .358 WSSM also so you won't have to pay custom die prices like I did. |
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What is your Parent case? Parent case is 30 Rem (the old one)(Midway has them in stock) run thru a Herrett die & trimmed to 1.700". 1:16" twist, 18" bbl, going with .358 bbl rather than .357. That trim length lets me keep the 180 gr Horns seated on the shank & fit a standard 6.8 mag. Already checked the mag & bbl combo and it seems to feed just fine. PTG is cutting my reamer now $135 & gauges are $28 ea. Not bad for custom tooling. Still have to line bore the flash hider for bullet releif but other than that I'm ready to start cutting when the reamer gets here. But, I am starting to run out of patience and am ready to load it up & shoot it. MLG |
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What is your Parent case? Parent case is 30 Rem (the old one)(Midway has them in stock) run thru a Herrett die & trimmed to 1.700". 1:16" twist, 18" bbl, going with .358 bbl rather than .357. That trim length lets me keep the 180 gr Horns seated on the shank & fit a standard 6.8 mag. Already checked the mag & bbl combo and it seems to feed just fine. PTG is cutting my reamer now $135 & gauges are $28 ea. Not bad for custom tooling. Still have to line bore the flash hider for bullet releif but other than that I'm ready to start cutting when the reamer gets here. But, I am starting to run out of patience and am ready to load it up & shoot it. MLG I already have a custom reamer made and thats the same case and case length that i use for my 358MGP.Looks like a copy of what i did my dies are custom made for my round because the herrett shoulder is farther down and will not allow as much powder as my case thats why i did not go that route.Your case to shoulder is only going to be .033" shorter with a longer neck but every little bit counts in a small case like this.Plus my case is blown out a couple of thousands at the top and bottom.As for the mag you will have to remove the ribs in the mag because the dia on the case and bullet will not feed correct been there done that.I have been playing with this round for two years now i started it in JAN 2008 so if you have any questions feel free to ask. Mike |
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Why so slow a twist? General 358 twist are 1:10, 12, and 14. I did mine in 1:14 and it stabilizes everything from 225 gr. X to 180 gr. Speer just fine. Unless you are going with even lighter bullets, like pistol bullets, I fail to see why a 1:20 or 22 would be advantageous, and they would be ruinous if you want to go with heavier 250-300 gr. bullets. What kind of accuacy are you getting with the 180 gr bullets? Because of the Short fat bullet will not stabilize in a 1-14 twist barrel like i posted in my post above i have been playing with this round for two years now and it needs a very slow twist rate i designed this round for the AR15 platform only (main reason is its lefthanded) and to use only two bullets the hornady 180 and the speer 180. The faster you push this short bullet the slower the twist you need all the caculators that i have played with so far are correct as for accuacy with the twists i have tested. Mike |
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Parent case is 30 Rem (the old one)(Midway has them in stock) run thru a Herrett die & trimmed to 1.700". 1:16" twist, 18" bbl, going with .358 bbl rather than .357. That trim length lets me keep the 180 gr Horns seated on the shank & fit a standard 6.8 mag. Already checked the mag & bbl combo and it seems to feed just fine. PTG is cutting my reamer now $135 & gauges are $28 ea. Not bad for custom tooling. Still have to line bore the flash hider for bullet releif but other than that I'm ready to start cutting when the reamer gets here. But, I am starting to run out of patience and am ready to load it up & shoot it. MLG I already have a custom reamer made and thats the same case and case length that i use for my 358MGP.Looks like a copy of what i did my dies are custom made for my round because the herrett shoulder is farther down and will not allow as much powder as my case thats why i did not go that route.Your case to shoulder is only going to be .033" shorter with a longer neck but every little bit counts in a small case like this.Plus my case is blown out a couple of thousands at the top and bottom.As for the mag you will have to remove the ribs in the mag because the dia on the case and bullet will not feed correct been there done that.I have been playing with this round for two years now i started it in JAN 2008 so if you have any questions feel free to ask. Mike [/quote] I had a pretty good history with the Herrett out of 14" bbl & always wondered what it could do with a proper bbl length & bullets. Plus, I already had the dies ... all I needed was the right platform & incentive. So, here I am. I may have a few questions after I start shooting it but am kinda excited about cooking up my very own wildcat from scratch. Doing the whole chamber design and all was fun. i guess the big kick that got me started was when they weren't accepting orders for 458 SOCOM & they didn't know how long it would be for new orders. We'll see just how it works. MLG |
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Why so slow a twist? General 358 twist are 1:10, 12, and 14. I did mine in 1:14 and it stabilizes everything from 225 gr. X to 180 gr. Speer just fine. Unless you are going with even lighter bullets, like pistol bullets, I fail to see why a 1:20 or 22 would be advantageous, and they would be ruinous if you want to go with heavier 250-300 gr. bullets. Because of the Short fat bullet will not stabilize in a 1-14 twist barrel like i posted in my post above i have been playing with this round for two years now and it needs a very slow twist rate i designed this round for the AR15 platform only (main reason is its lefthanded) and to use only two bullets the hornady 180 and the speer 180. The faster you push this short bullet the slower the twist you need all the caculators that i have played with so far are correct as for accuacy with the twists i have tested. Mike Very odd. Even at 2500-2550 fps mine with a 1:14 Pac-Nor Super Match shoots those two bullets (Speer and Hornady 180s) perfectly out to 200 yards (farthest I have tested) and the accuracy is not bad either, 1.25 MOA. Not great but because mine is throated for 225 gr. bullets I have almost a 1/2 inch jump to lands when shooting the 180s and that does nothing for accuracy. Still, that is more than good enough for deer out to 300 yards which is the limit of the .358 HDH before drop starts getting a little silly. |
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Why so slow a twist? General 358 twist are 1:10, 12, and 14. I did mine in 1:14 and it stabilizes everything from 225 gr. X to 180 gr. Speer just fine. Unless you are going with even lighter bullets, like pistol bullets, I fail to see why a 1:20 or 22 would be advantageous, and they would be ruinous if you want to go with heavier 250-300 gr. bullets. Because of the Short fat bullet will not stabilize in a 1-14 twist barrel like i posted in my post above i have been playing with this round for two years now and it needs a very slow twist rate i designed this round for the AR15 platform only (main reason is its lefthanded) and to use only two bullets the hornady 180 and the speer 180. The faster you push this short bullet the slower the twist you need all the caculators that i have played with so far are correct as for accuacy with the twists i have tested. Mike Very odd. Even at 2500-2550 fps mine with a 1:14 Pac-Nor Super Match shoots those two bullets (Speer and Hornady 180s) perfectly out to 200 yards (farthest I have tested) and the accuracy is not bad either, 1.25 MOA. Not great but because mine is throated for 225 gr. bullets I have almost a 1/2 inch jump to lands when shooting the 180s and that does nothing for accuracy. Still, that is more than good enough for deer out to 300 yards which is the limit of the .358 HDH before drop starts getting a little silly. Are your groups in clusters like 3 together in one spot and 2 together in another spot on the target for your 1.25MOA or 4 and 1 ? I agree that 1.25" Groups at 100 yards is fine for my round since 225 yards is max for deer sized game but i just wanted to make it shoot under an inch or at least 1 inch groups i know this is no match round (short fat bullet) but it should be able to shoot 1 inch groups i still have to play a little bit more hopefully before hunting season i will have it where i want it. |
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Parent case is 30 Rem (the old one)(Midway has them in stock) run thru a Herrett die & trimmed to 1.700". 1:16" twist, 18" bbl, going with .358 bbl rather than .357. That trim length lets me keep the 180 gr Horns seated on the shank & fit a standard 6.8 mag. Already checked the mag & bbl combo and it seems to feed just fine. PTG is cutting my reamer now $135 & gauges are $28 ea. Not bad for custom tooling. Still have to line bore the flash hider for bullet releif but other than that I'm ready to start cutting when the reamer gets here. But, I am starting to run out of patience and am ready to load it up & shoot it. MLG I already have a custom reamer made and thats the same case and case length that i use for my 358MGP.Looks like a copy of what i did my dies are custom made for my round because the herrett shoulder is farther down and will not allow as much powder as my case thats why i did not go that route.Your case to shoulder is only going to be .033" shorter with a longer neck but every little bit counts in a small case like this.Plus my case is blown out a couple of thousands at the top and bottom.As for the mag you will have to remove the ribs in the mag because the dia on the case and bullet will not feed correct been there done that.I have been playing with this round for two years now i started it in JAN 2008 so if you have any questions feel free to ask. Mike I had a pretty good history with the Herrett out of 14" bbl & always wondered what it could do with a proper bbl length & bullets. Plus, I already had the dies ... all I needed was the right platform & incentive. So, here I am. I may have a few questions after I start shooting it but am kinda excited about cooking up my very own wildcat from scratch. Doing the whole chamber design and all was fun. i guess the big kick that got me started was when they weren't accepting orders for 458 SOCOM & they didn't know how long it would be for new orders. We'll see just how it works. MLG[/quote] Its always fun making your own stuff.Good Luck What was the twist on you 14" 357 herrett barrel |
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Why so slow a twist? General 358 twist are 1:10, 12, and 14. I did mine in 1:14 and it stabilizes everything from 225 gr. X to 180 gr. Speer just fine. Unless you are going with even lighter bullets, like pistol bullets, I fail to see why a 1:20 or 22 would be advantageous, and they would be ruinous if you want to go with heavier 250-300 gr. bullets. Because of the Short fat bullet will not stabilize in a 1-14 twist barrel like i posted in my post above i have been playing with this round for two years now and it needs a very slow twist rate i designed this round for the AR15 platform only (main reason is its lefthanded) and to use only two bullets the hornady 180 and the speer 180. The faster you push this short bullet the slower the twist you need all the caculators that i have played with so far are correct as for accuacy with the twists i have tested. Mike Very odd. Even at 2500-2550 fps mine with a 1:14 Pac-Nor Super Match shoots those two bullets (Speer and Hornady 180s) perfectly out to 200 yards (farthest I have tested) and the accuracy is not bad either, 1.25 MOA. Not great but because mine is throated for 225 gr. bullets I have almost a 1/2 inch jump to lands when shooting the 180s and that does nothing for accuracy. Still, that is more than good enough for deer out to 300 yards which is the limit of the .358 HDH before drop starts getting a little silly. Are your groups in clusters like 3 together in one spot and 2 together in another spot on the target for your 1.25MOA or 4 and 1 ? I agree that 1.25" Groups at 100 yards is fine for my round since 225 yards is max for deer sized game but i just wanted to make it shoot under an inch or at least 1 inch groups i know this is no match round (short fat bullet) but it should be able to shoot 1 inch groups i still have to play a little bit more hopefully before hunting season i will have it where i want it. They are a pretty nice and round 5 shot cluster, just larger than what I had hoped for. If doing it over again I would have done it on the AR-15 platform and had it throated for the 200 gr. TSX instead of the 225. Like I am ever going to go after game that needs a 225 in Indiana and I am getting a bit long in the tooth to be chasing after elk and such. Since mine is really set up for the 225s I won't get the best accuracy until I do more work with them. |
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Why so slow a twist? General 358 twist are 1:10, 12, and 14. I did mine in 1:14 and it stabilizes everything from 225 gr. X to 180 gr. Speer just fine. Unless you are going with even lighter bullets, like pistol bullets, I fail to see why a 1:20 or 22 would be advantageous, and they would be ruinous if you want to go with heavier 250-300 gr. bullets. Because of the Short fat bullet will not stabilize in a 1-14 twist barrel like i posted in my post above i have been playing with this round for two years now and it needs a very slow twist rate i designed this round for the AR15 platform only (main reason is its lefthanded) and to use only two bullets the hornady 180 and the speer 180. The faster you push this short bullet the slower the twist you need all the caculators that i have played with so far are correct as for accuacy with the twists i have tested. Mike Very odd. Even at 2500-2550 fps mine with a 1:14 Pac-Nor Super Match shoots those two bullets (Speer and Hornady 180s) perfectly out to 200 yards (farthest I have tested) and the accuracy is not bad either, 1.25 MOA. Not great but because mine is throated for 225 gr. bullets I have almost a 1/2 inch jump to lands when shooting the 180s and that does nothing for accuracy. Still, that is more than good enough for deer out to 300 yards which is the limit of the .358 HDH before drop starts getting a little silly. Are your groups in clusters like 3 together in one spot and 2 together in another spot on the target for your 1.25MOA or 4 and 1 ? I agree that 1.25" Groups at 100 yards is fine for my round since 225 yards is max for deer sized game but i just wanted to make it shoot under an inch or at least 1 inch groups i know this is no match round (short fat bullet) but it should be able to shoot 1 inch groups i still have to play a little bit more hopefully before hunting season i will have it where i want it. They are a pretty nice and round 5 shot cluster, just larger than what I had hoped for. If doing it over again I would have done it on the AR-15 platform and had it throated for the 200 gr. TSX instead of the 225. Like I am ever going to go after game that needs a 225 in Indiana and I am getting a bit long in the tooth to be chasing after elk and such. Since mine is really set up for the 225s I won't get the best accuracy until I do more work with them. I know mine will kill elk with the speer 180gr hot-core |
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I already have a custom reamer made and thats the same case and case length that i use for my 358MGP.Looks like a copy of what i did my dies are custom made for my round because the herrett shoulder is farther down and will not allow as much powder as my case thats why i did not go that route.Your case to shoulder is only going to be .033" shorter with a longer neck but every little bit counts in a small case like this.Plus my case is blown out a couple of thousands at the top and bottom.As for the mag you will have to remove the ribs in the mag because the dia on the case and bullet will not feed correct been there done that.I have been playing with this round for two years now i started it in JAN 2008 so if you have any questions feel free to ask. Mike The frustration index is off the charts. PTG is shipping the reamer today but the bbl is still in my RV in SA waiting for my brother to get transferred up here & bring the house with him. I was hoping to have all my stuff here before I got the reamer. Simply amazing how life works out. I think the word is "IRONIC" MLG |
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