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Posted: 5/23/2010 4:23:37 AM EDT
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I've been searching around but I'm looking for opinions on which style to choose for a new 308.
Once I pick a style then I'll ask about weather to build or get a full rifle. Thanks |
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I will be building my .308 on a Mega Machine Shop platform.
It will be a billit upper& lower. They will be coming out with a monolithic upper shortly. The magwell will be dpms, dpms barrel nut. But the upper will be the same height as the armalite which lines up perfectly with daniel defence rail. I'm just waiting for them to come out with this rig in late summer. They have already tested the design just waiting to go to production |
| I've seen a lot of knocks on DPMS and I can't figure out why. I have the 5.56 AP4 carbine from them and it is AWESOME! I took the carrier handle off and placed a ACOG 3X30 TA33R-8 did a battle sight in at 25 meters. It shoots the same hole. No failure to loads, clean ejects and and excellent finish on the upper /lower. I highly recommend DPMS! |
| Either one is a fine rifle. The main advantage I can see to a DPMS-style rifle is the magazines. They are a superior design for an AR-style rifle than the converted M-14 mags used in the newer Armalite rifle. Armalite is on their 4th generation, and the mags STILL have minor issues with the bolt hold-open. the only complaint that I have heard about DPMS mags is that you can't get one in more than 20rds. C-Products will have a 25rd mag out shortly, though. |
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Quoted: I've seen a lot of knocks on DPMS and I can't figure out why. I have the 5.56 AP4 carbine from them and it is AWESOME! I took the carrier handle off and placed a ACOG 3X30 TA33R-8 did a battle sight in at 25 meters. It shoots the same hole. No failure to loads, clean ejects and and excellent finish on the upper /lower. I highly recommend DPMS! I used to think DPMS was alright, but after hanging out on ARFCOM for awhile, I began to learn things. I have no problem with their receivers & small parts. I am however wary of their Fire Control Groups (FCGs), their bolts & their barrels. |
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Both fine rifles (I don't think you will hear that on the Armilite threads ) The Mag choice is a good reason & there are other bolts ,TG's available for them & there is always Bill Springfield for trigger jobs on any TG for the AR family of rifles.
I build my own DPMS type rifles ,so I can't say any thing about the Factory ones . |
| I bought a LR.308AP4 a few years back after using them to hunt TX whitetails. I grabbed another AP4 earlier this month just because I like it so much and the first one now lives in TX waiting for me. After a few years of using these rifles I have nothing but good things to say about them. The Armalite is a great rifle but is a bit more susceptible to stoppages caused by dirt/sand/etc... due to the tighter tolerances. The DPMS works every time. I started with a 3x9 scope on my first one and discovered after the first range trip I could use more glass on that rifle. It now wears a 4.5x14 and the new rifle sports a 4x16. Both rifles are stupid accurate with a 165-180gr bullet. The 1in10 twist doesn't give me good groups with lighter 147-150gr ball. They both seem to do okay functioning with the surpluss ammo I have fed them but groups go from sub-MOA to 3-4 inches. I put a JP trigger in both rifles which they desperately needed but everything else was just fine out of the box. |
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Quoted: I'm not so interested in the brands of DPMS or Armalite yet. Just which style is a better system. I'm getting the impression that the DPMS mags system is better. Is that right? Yes, the DPMS magazines are based on the Knight's SR-25 & it's the most commonly used pattern amongst the different brands of big ARs. ETA: And the SR-25 pattern seems to be the most trouble-free. |
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I have a grand sample of one Armalite rifle, however all of my Armalite Gen II mags work in my AR10. I have not had ANY failures, period.
Of course I am using a Noveske barrel and I only feed it Federal Gold Metal Match or my own loads. No "cheap" surplus (although I suspect the Noveske barrel would digest it well). Handling the DPMS rifles were what sold me on the Armalite. If you are just looking at magazines as a comparative, then make sure you know what COL you intend to run if you handload. You will be limited slightly with DPMS mags, and GREATLY with Pmags. I do like Magpul products and run Pmags in my M4 at work. I run a MOE and PRS on my AR10. However the .308 Pmags exacerbate the already limited COL. The Armalite mags easily allow for a 2.85" COL. And for the record, I have seen magazine failures in DPMS, and KAC rifles. Magazines are disposable. Don't get married to them. I like the system enough that I am going to be building a second rifle with a set of IRA receivers in the Armalite pattern. It will let me run longer projectiles and not have to set them back as much. |
| I actually went with a pair of Rock River LAR-8s, which IMHO are superior to either of the OPs two weapons choices (Armalite or DPMS) and priced right. I can easily get and use plentiful new milsurp FAL 20-rd preban mags for only $16 each in my dumbass socialist state and you can't beat the RRA for its sweet two-stage trigger, forged upper AND lower, 1" MOA guarantee, it's appetite for shooting cheap milsurp 7.62 NATO ammo and the lifetime warranty. Plus RRA's customer service is top-shelf. That sold it for me. |
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I think the debate can go bit further than just who has a better magazine.
I have a purpose built DPMS for Heavy Metal and I thought it was a great rifle, it shoots fine and with PMAGS it is very reliable. I put a 16" Criterion barrel and a PRI carbon forearm and it shoots great. I have since built a Noveske N6 to replace it and was a lot more impressed with some of the inner workings than of the DPMS 1. Spring loaded firing pin, non floating design 2. A heavy duty firing pin, tapers down from a thick base to a point, no shoulder or step down like the DPMS. Seems less likely to break at a weak point and might be why there is a spring, more mass so to reduce slam fire. 3. The bolt carrier has a V shape to pass between the rounds in the magazine instead of dragging over the top and compressing them. 4. Thicker built up areas around the take down pins. 5. Forged upper an lower instead of a fat billet design. I don't doubt the strength of billet but I now like the smooth look of the AR-10 compared to the DPMS. 6. The GEN II mags just work. The rounds sit higher and the base of the round is up to reduce bolt over and misfeeds. I shoot WOLF 150s through it and they group great. It's a competition gun and blasting 168s at a target less than a 100yds makes me cringe more than shooting WOLF. These are just some things I have noticed since comparing them side by side. On a side note would there be any interest in a Noveske barrel with a DPMS extension as an offered package from Noveske? |
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