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Posted: 11/7/2009 2:40:52 PM EDT
| what kind of group should I expect at 200 yards? I have a POF 308 and a Remington 700 VTR bolt action that I get 3-5" groups from. Sometimes the shots are dead nut and some are in the 4th outer ring of the target. How many rounds can be fired thru the weapon until heat and fouling play a part? |
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Quoted:
what kind of group should I expect at 200 yards? I have a POF 308 and a Remington 700 VTR bolt action that I get 3-5" groups from. Sometimes the shots are dead nut and some are in the 4th outer ring of the target. How many rounds can be fired thru the weapon until heat and fouling play a part? Depends on a lot of things. Are you shooting from a bench rest, a bipod, prone, or sitting? If the latter two, be proud of yourself. Most people cannot hold 4 inches at 200 yards even with a bipod. Were you using a sling? What were the weather conditions when you were shooting? How fast was the string? What is your cleaning regimen? If you are a great shot with other rifles, I would think that the ammo might be the culprit. For instance, you will not get as good accuracy with Wolf as you will with Rem Core Lokt, and you will not get as good accuracy with Core Lokt as you will with Federal GMM (there are exceptions to this, but they are few). The best scenario is ammo specifically tuned to your rifle. This means handloading for most people. I have seen moa VTRs in 308 right out of the box. I have also seen some that were 2 moa, which it sounds like yours is close to. VTR factory triggers are nothing to write home about, either. I have zero experience with POFs in 308 Win, so I cannot comment there, but POF has an excellent reputation for building accurate rifles, so I would be surprised if it is the rifle. Try a variety of ammo. Probably what shoots the best in the POF will not be the same that shoots the best in the VTR. Rifles tend to have personalities when it comes to ammo. Also, barrel heat can affect group size rather dramatically. Fouling can as well, but a rifle that has a decent barrel on it that has 300-500 rounds through it should be burnished enough that fouling is not critical for the first few groups. If you have not already done so, get a bore guide for cleaning your rifles. Mr Cleaning Rod is not your friend when it comes to accuracy, and a bore guide that enables you to clean from the breech end of the barrel will help your rifle stay accurate longer. |
| thanks for the reply. I shot both rifles from a lead sled so I dont think that it was me affecting the shots. I used Remington Accutips at 165grains. It was a calm day and I have Leupold Mark 4s on both guns. Should I run a patch thru the barrel after x# rounds? I usually clean with a bore snake. |
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I usually clean with a bore snake. OOOOoooo! Bore snakes are a fantastic field expedient. That's about all I can say for them. They have a great advertising campaign, but don't take it at face value. I carry bore snakes with me in the field, but when I get back to the shop, it's time for a real cleaning. Properly cleaning a rifle involves a lot more work. Here is a link that can get you started with proper cleaning. I consider this to be a minimum. |
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Shooting 25-06 and .308 at over 600 yards (rem 700 and SA M-1A NM) 2 MOA is acceptable.
1 MOA consistently is rare. I have seen this done but not by many including my self. I average 2-3 MOA in the field and rarely miss my target. Prairie dogs, crows, coyotes and deer. If you are shooting matches than you may need to practice more to get MOA.. |
| If your rifles are capable of pin point accuracy, then the only way to test them if you do not re-load is with Federal Gold Match ammo. If you shoot an 1 inch at 100 , maybe your rifle will do 2 inches at 200. You can clean your barrel good, run through some shooters choice fp10, then mop that dry before you shoot. A clean ,cool , barrel is needed to get those touching group, and Fed Match. If you can get .5 and under at 100 and on a bad day .75 ––then you can expect alot smaller groups than you are getting at 200 because your rifle can do it. It takes practice and the right ammo. Fed Match is the key and will rule out alot of the ammo problems . |
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Quoted:
what kind of group should I expect at 200 yards? I have a POF 308 and a Remington 700 VTR bolt action that I get 3-5" groups from. Sometimes the shots are dead nut and some are in the 4th outer ring of the target. How many rounds can be fired thru the weapon until heat and fouling play a part? Every gun is different and likes different ammo. FGMM gets .75 in mine while Hornady match is often .5 or under. Nothing else is even close to the hornady in my gun. It normally takes 10 shots for the groups of my rifle to tighten up after cleaning. The most i have shot without cleaning is about 60rds and the groups weren't getting any bigger than after the first 10. I think the rule of thumb is do not let your barrel get hot to the touch or you lose accuracy and burn out your barrel. I have another gun that i'm happy with anything under 2MOA. This is my hunting gun and i never take shots over 200 yds so this is great accuracy for me. YMMV |
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From what I've read the POF is "supposed" to be a MOA rifle . . . with the right ammo. I have a DMPS .308 SASS and depending on what I'm shooting it can be anywhere from .75moa to 2 or 3 moa. If you are going just for groups, try the Federal Gold Medal Match in 168 and 175gr, and the Hornady TAP FPD in 168gr.
To answer your original question, I would think with both rifles and the ammo each one likes, you should be able to get 2-3" groups no prob. . . with the ammo that best fits your hunting needs - 3-4" groups are still GTG. . . |
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