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Posted: 3/26/2009 7:44:53 PM EDT
| I tried searching but didnt get a return. What kind of MOA does this rifle shoot out of the box? Has anybody had any issues with theirs? |
| I think it depends alot on the ammo, shooter, and conditions, I'm not sure that DPMS says what it will do "out of the box" per say. Mine has shot fine for me so far, I've had a couple of DPMS .308's, this one is just as good as any of the others. I haven't gotten much time to hit the range with it yet, but hopefully over the summer I'll be able to give it a work out or two. |
My DPMS SASS 308 will easily shoot sub MOA groups with decent ammo.... Even with the cheap Walmart Federal soft points, I've done 1 MOA at 200yds. I've had few complaints about mine, the only things I didn't like was the ambidextrous safety rubbed on my trigger finger and the pistol grip seems a bit cheap. The current cost has nearly doubled since I bought mine, $3K+ is a lot of dough for a DPMS.
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Easily a Sub MOA Rifle, typical groups are in the 0.75 to 1.0 MOA range with match ammo (Federal Gold Medal Match 168 gr). I started off with a 24" LR-308, and I was leery of how the 18" barrel would do, but so far it is on par with the 24". Obviously there is some velocity loss going from 24" to 18", but at the typical ranges I shoot (100-300) I have not had any issues, and the size and weight reduction are great for handling. Best of Luck, Capt Richardson |
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I have a DPMS SASS in .308 with probably 1000 rounds of ammo through it by now.
I don't know if I'd classify this rifle as sub-moa. I don't believe DPMS guarantees that level of accuracy and in my opinion, it's not really meant to be. In June of last year I took a class at LRI in Wyoming that was a 5 day, extremely intense course, to teach long range marksmanship. It was taught by a host of marine scout/snipers with a lot more real world experience than can be imparted in five days to a bunch of shooting enthusiasts. Before the break in period is over, this rifle shot about 2moa for me. That was with heavy amounts of one on one coaching and this was tested out by a few folks that can truly shoot sub moa. After about 200 rounds, it started to tighten up a bit and was down to a 1.5 to 1 moa rifle. But... what does that really mean? I had zero problems keeping shots on chest sized steel targets all the way out to 800 yards, even with heavy Wyoming cross winds. (1.5 moa at 800 is about 12") If I did my part, the rifle did it's part. After 800, the velocity on the BH Match 168g ammo was subsonic and started to tumble and fly all over. With hot custom loads or the slightly faster Federal Match, You might squeak out 900 out of the 18" barrel. (A gentleman in our class with the 24" barrel on his DPMS 308 went out to 1k with no issue.) In that class I shot with people shooting everything from Winchester 70's in 30-06, to AIs, Savages and all sorts of cool tacticool toys. The amazing shooter behind the AI that could consistently make cloverleafs at 100, was pinging steel torso targets at 800... But with a 1.5moa rifle so was I... The tradeoff between a sub moa bolt gun and a slightly less accurate SASS comes down to follow up shots. That 19 round magazine and a semi auto freaking rule. In a real world situation, I'll take it every dang day over the extra accuracy. A few of our instructors made use of the SR25 during the fighting in Fallujah. My belief above is in line with what they said as well. A writeup of his comparisson between the SR25 and M40 is here: http://longrangeinternational.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=128 A news story during the fighting that has two of the instructors from that class in action: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2326273110617707549&hl=en |
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Thanks for that info AzDak,
I can imagine that class you took was a real good one! Based on your comments, I think you bring up a very good point which is how you "classify the accuracy" of a rifle. Do you classify it under "test or labaratory" conditions, or do you classify it under "real world" conditions. My SASS will easily shoot sub 1 MOA under "test or labaratory" conditions, known distance to target, best possible optics setup, sterile environmental conditions (NO wind), fired from a bench rest, unfouled barrel, using the best possible ammo, single feed each round, etc. Under "real world" conditions, estimated distance to target, estimated optics setup, variable environmental conditions, hasty / field support, fouled barrel, less than perfect ammo, feeding from a magazine, etc, I would expect it to be more in the sub 2 MOA range. As your post points out, this is what the Military is finding in the field / real world with systems like the M110 / SR-25. Ultimately the accuracy of any rifle is only as good as the variables (shooter, environment, ammo, etc)which impact it will allow it to be! Thanks, Capt Richardson |
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Glad you found some of it useful. 
I'm a big fan of the SASS and my only regret is that I put too much optic on mine. I have a NF 5.5-22x56 and it's a pig of a scope. Don't get me wrong, it's an amazing piece of glass worth every penny, but it's way too big for that rifle. (Although it came in really handy in the class when I found out my Bushnell spotting scope was a giant piece of crap. I ended up doing most of my spotting through my NF.) So what trigger did you go with? I had a gunsmith work on my JP at the class and it never really got to a point that either of us was happy with it. I'm still looking at finding a better aftermarket trigger. My JP is creepier than a 40 year old dude trying to pickup highschool girls. And if you're ever interested in training. LRI is about the best money I've ever spent. I was part of the first class they ran through their new school and the 6 instructor to 10 student ratio was amazing. They got the entire class on steel at 1k in 5 days. No small feat. |
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Not trying to hijack, but what would owners of the sass rifle recommend for optics, since a NF was a bit of a pig? TIA I've been running a Leupold Mark 4 3.5-10X40mm LR/T M3 Illuminated and have been very pleased with it. It is a lower magnification, but I have found it sufficient for my uses. I have some higher power scopes on other rifles (6.5-20 power is the largest), and I find that on the higher powers, I have a harder time shooting them from anything other than a rifle rest as the magnification amplifies any movement. Also once you are a max power the field of view is smaller, so it is harder to find a target. |
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Just to be clear, the problem with the NF was the model I chose, not an issue with the brand. The 5.5-22x56mm has a huge objective lens and it's a big benchrest type scope. I believe my replacement is going to be either their 2.5-10x24 or 2.5-10x32. I also ran mine with a SWFA super sniper for awhile. It was a fine fit and a decent enough optic. (I ended it up loaning and then selling the SWFA to a member of the class I attended. His Millet shit the bed during the class. The SWFA held up just fine and was putting rounds on target at 1000m on his rifle.) I'm just not sure with a rifle that can double as a carbine that I'd want a fixed 10x optic. If I went that route, I'd probably add a dot sight somewhere as a backup. |
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I am running a Nightforce 5.5-22x50, slightly less of a "pig" than the 5.5-22x56.
IMHO, optics ultimately come down to the application. Shooter is moving frequently - size and weight are an issue Target is moving - magnification and field of view are an issue A lot of shooters are happy with a Scope which is around 10x, pretty good balance of all aspects, size/weight, and FOV/magnification. Personally, I always lean toward the side of higher power variable magnification scope, they tend to be heavier/larger, but I don't think that you can beat the improvement in target recognition, shot placement, and spotting ability using the scope on high magnification. If you need a larger field of view, then you just dial down the magnification. Of course I do the majority of my shooting from a bench or fixed position, I am not walking around taking shots from the shoulder, so the size/weight are not an issue. While it is very important to buy a quality scope, it is as important to buy a scope with specs that match the application(s) for which the rifle will be used. Capt Richardson |
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Quoted: Not trying to hijack, but what would owners of the sass rifle recommend for optics, since a NF was a bit of a pig? TIA I have found my IOR 2.5-10 FFP to be a very nice range of magnification for what I really intended this rifle to do. I wanted a 50-600yd rifle that was capable of under 2 MOA from bipod support. The rifle and glass work quite well for this. I'm not going to pimp the IOR because honestly it was a compromise of money availible and features I really wanted. I wanted Illumination, FFP optics, under 3x on the low end, matched reticle and turrets. Those features made it mostly come down to USO and IOR and then into the stratosphere. I ended up liking the MP-8 dot reticle best and the NF in 2-10 was just not what I wanted. However, Night Force are great scopes. I see them well recommended by folks who have ben there, done that so I would love to get one of them for my someday rifle in .338 LM. I don't know why I want it, the furthest range I have access to is 600yds but I still want it. My SASS has been great. It's lighter and handier than many of the monster sized .308 AR's. The barrel is enough to get you to 800yds with most ammo maybe 900+ with 155 scenars. It's a 1.25 to 1.5" gun when I'm doing alright. I can sometimes get 0.75 to 1.25" when things are great and conditions are perfect. My one malfunction came today when the extractor broke.  I always thought that looked like the weak link in the bolt. |
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I'm shooting sub MOA with my DPMS 308 SASS. I've finally perfected the load for this rifle though. After trying probably 20 different load configurations and bullet types and weights, I settled on Sierra MK 168 grain, uncrimped and pushed with 42.5 grains of IMR 4064. Consistent .75 moa or less. Rounds are magazine fed as well. Using a Bushnell Elite 4200 variable scope mounted on a set of Barrett adjustable rings to get max elevation adjustment. As mentioned in previous posts, all sorts of variables that causes people to get various mileage ratings.
The ironic thing is that I have a DPMS 24 inch SS bull barrel upper in a 308 that I 'll swap out and use with the SASS lower and I'm only getting about 1.5 moa after break-in and using the same loads. You would think the 24 inch would hold its own to a fluted 18 inch with the same twist. The scope I'm using on the 24 is probably an overkill (NF Competition 12-42 x 56) but I intended to use this upper for extreme long range. |
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Quoted: The ironic thing is that I have a DPMS 24 inch SS bull barrel upper in a 308 that I 'll swap out and use with the SASS lower and I'm only getting about 1.5 moa after break-in and using the same loads. You would think the 24 inch would hold its own to a fluted 18 inch with the same twist. The scope I'm using on the 24 is probably an overkill (NF Competition 12-42 x 56) but I intended to use this upper for extreme long range. Different barrel harmonics. Your load for the SASS is releasing the bullet while the barrel is quiet and the worst of the vibration is not at the muzzle-end. When you switch to the 24" barrel the timing is different and so is the barrel vibration. |
| I've been looking at getting the DPMS SASS for a few weeks now. I've looked at getting just a regular LR-308B and then adding the items I want. The SASS has everything I want and then some extras that are nice. I have a place selling the SASS for about $1800. It will prob take a few months to get it which I can wait. When I price the LR-308B and add the just bare minium of add ons that I want I get close to $1600 on DPMS web page. Thats without some stuff I would add later which comes on the SASS. OK...here is my question....what is the going rate of SASS's and why would anybody not get it over the base LR-308B with add ons? |
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I've been looking at getting the DPMS SASS for a few weeks now. I've looked at getting just a regular LR-308B and then adding the items I want. The SASS has everything I want and then some extras that are nice. I have a place selling the SASS for about $1800. It will prob take a few months to get it which I can wait. When I price the LR-308B and add the just bare minium of add ons that I want I get close to $1600 on DPMS web page. Thats without some stuff I would add later which comes on the SASS. OK...here is my question....what is the going rate of SASS's and why would anybody not get it over the base LR-308B with add ons? My "SASS" started as a LR-308B. Well, strike that... it started as a 24" Stainless Fluted Bull Barrel. I realized early on that the 24" barrel was not what I needed for the kind of pratical shooting that I do. I was about to have it chopped down to 18" but someone offered me a LR-308B upper as a trade for my 24" upper. Since then, I swapped out the high-rise slick-side upper for an A3 upper receiver. I had the 18" Chrome Moly Heavy barrel threaded 5/8x24 and installed a JP Enterprises "Cooley" tactical brake. I swapped the stock gas block with a PRI low-profile gas block, and the upper is at Superior Weapons Systems now getting a Rifle-length E-1 Quad Rail forearm installed. I just installed a Rock River 2-stage match trigger in the lower today, and I think I'll be pleased by it. All that is left to do for this rifle is to add a Magpul PRS stock, BUIS, and LaRue SPR optics mount in order for it to be FINALLY finished. I have a Leupold Mk IV 3.5-10X40 illuminated TMR M3 turrents optic on it. While I like the stock DPMS SASS, and I probably would have less invested in the rifle had I just bought one, I feel that I got the abilty to get EXACTLY what I wanted going the route that I've done. As soon as mine gets back, I should be able to give a range report and post a pic or two. –– John |
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OK...here is my question....what is the going rate of SASS's and why would anybody not get it over the base LR-308B with add ons? Apparently the going rate of SASSs is $2500-$3000, and why would you spend that kind of money for a rather poorly thought out system when a LR308 + NICE rail, sights and stock can be had for half the price?? |
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OK...here is my question....what is the going rate of SASS's and why would anybody not get it over the base LR-308B with add ons? Apparently the going rate of SASSs is $2500-$3000, and why would you spend that kind of money for a rather poorly thought out system when a LR308 + NICE rail, sights and stock can be had for half the price?? I'll agree that the price is too much, but I disagree that the SASS is a poorly thought out system. Aside from the ambi safety which hit my trigger finger, the rest of the rifle seems well designed and was an optic and rings away from shooting tight groups. I've spent a lot more time and money on firearms and still not had them match the accuracy potential of my SASS. It was nice to buy a rifle and not have to mess with it for a change. When I bought mine, it was cheaper to buy a SASS than add the extras to a LR308. Now you'd be better off picking up a LR308, assuming their prices haven't skyrocketed as well. |
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OK...here is my question....what is the going rate of SASS's and why would anybody not get it over the base LR-308B with add ons? Apparently the going rate of SASSs is $2500-$3000, and why would you spend that kind of money for a rather poorly thought out system when a LR308 + NICE rail, sights and stock can be had for half the price?? I'll agree that the price is too much, but I disagree that the SASS is a poorly thought out system. Aside from the ambi safety which hit my trigger finger, the rest of the rifle seems well designed and was an optic and rings away from shooting tight groups. I've spent a lot more time and money on firearms and still not had them match the accuracy potential of my SASS. It was nice to buy a rifle and not have to mess with it for a change. When I bought mine, it was cheaper to buy a SASS than add the extras to a LR308. Now you'd be better off picking up a LR308, assuming their prices haven't skyrocketed as well. To each his own; if I was doing a SASS it would be totally different. But that's the beauty of standardization and modularity eh? Truthfully I am rarely satisfied with any manufacturers configuration. I think only once have I shot a gun that I liked just exactly as it came out of the box, without immediately thinking about what I'd change. |
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I'm shooting sub MOA with my DPMS 308 SASS. I've finally perfected the load for this rifle though. After trying probably 20 different load configurations and bullet types and weights, I settled on Sierra MK 168 grain, uncrimped and pushed with 42.5 grains of IMR 4064. Consistent .75 moa or less. Rounds are magazine fed as well. Using a Bushnell Elite 4200 variable scope mounted on a set of Barrett adjustable rings to get max elevation adjustment. As mentioned in previous posts, all sorts of variables that causes people to get various mileage ratings. The ironic thing is that I have a DPMS 24 inch SS bull barrel upper in a 308 that I 'll swap out and use with the SASS lower and I'm only getting about 1.5 moa after break-in and using the same loads. You would think the 24 inch would hold its own to a fluted 18 inch with the same twist. The scope I'm using on the 24 is probably an overkill (NF Competition 12-42 x 56) but I intended to use this upper for extreme long range. My DPMS "LR Family" are all sub MOA rifles. 24" LR-308 
24" LR-260 
My 24" LR-308 can shoot a ragged hole at 100 yards with a 5 shot group, assuming all supporting variables are addressed accordingly. If you are not getting sub MOA with your 24" LR-308, then I would say first try some different ammo, to me the "Gold Standard" is Federal Gold Medal Match 168 gr HPBTM. If the ammo change will not produce a sub MOA group, then you might want to have someone "scope" the barrel to see if there is a problem. I am sure not every DPMS LR-308 will be a sub MOA rifle, however I would think most of them should be, assuming all other variables are as they need to be. While building "Rifle Accuracy" should be an exact science, there is still some "Art" and "Unknowns" in how any rifle will ultimately perform. Per the previous posts, you could have an issue with something as simple as a barrel defect, or something as complicated as barrel harmonics. "Rifle Accuracy" can also be like Medicine and Auto Mechanics, sometimes you just have to try different things until you find something that works or fixes the problem! Best of Luck, Capt Richardson |
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I've been looking at getting the DPMS SASS for a few weeks now. I've looked at getting just a regular LR-308B and then adding the items I want. The SASS has everything I want and then some extras that are nice. I have a place selling the SASS for about $1800. It will prob take a few months to get it which I can wait. When I price the LR-308B and add the just bare minium of add ons that I want I get close to $1600 on DPMS web page. Thats without some stuff I would add later which comes on the SASS. OK...here is my question....what is the going rate of SASS's and why would anybody not get it over the base LR-308B with add ons? If we were back in the "good ole days" when you could easily find a SASS on the shelf for a "reasonable" price then I would say buy it. Given the current environment, unless you are lucky enough to find one and independently wealthy enough to buy it when you do find it, then you are best to just build one. Building an "exact copy" will most likely be difficult given the current DPMS parts availability issues. As such you will probably end up with something that is very close, but it is going to be a little different. IMHO the critical issues for a "SASS Build" are: Barrel - to me this is the number 1 item / issue. From a strictly performance standpoint, you are going to need a high quality 18" stainless match barrel. From an aesthetics standpoint, you are going to need one that is "blacked out". The fluting and flashhider are performance issues for some people, and aesthetics issues for others. Trigger - this is probably a tie, or very close second, for the number 1 item / issue. Bottom line you must have a quality 2 stage match trigger, the exact one is more an issue of personal preference. Handguard - from a strictly performance standpoint, it obviously has to be a quality free float design. The exact specifications in terms of things like rails, once again are more an issue of personal preference. Buttstock - from a strictly performance standpoint, it should be adjustable for cheek rest and length of pull. IMHO the Magpul PRS is about the only choice, but that could also be an issue of personal preference. Beyond those issues, as long as it consistently shoots sub MOA, then IMHO build it as you see fit. Best of Luck, Capt Richardson |
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I'm shooting sub MOA with my DPMS 308 SASS. I've finally perfected the load for this rifle though. After trying probably 20 different load configurations and bullet types and weights, I settled on Sierra MK 168 grain, uncrimped and pushed with 42.5 grains of IMR 4064. Consistent .75 moa or less. Rounds are magazine fed as well. Using a Bushnell Elite 4200 variable scope mounted on a set of Barrett adjustable rings to get max elevation adjustment. As mentioned in previous posts, all sorts of variables that causes people to get various mileage ratings. The ironic thing is that I have a DPMS 24 inch SS bull barrel upper in a 308 that I 'll swap out and use with the SASS lower and I'm only getting about 1.5 moa after break-in and using the same loads. You would think the 24 inch would hold its own to a fluted 18 inch with the same twist. The scope I'm using on the 24 is probably an overkill (NF Competition 12-42 x 56) but I intended to use this upper for extreme long range. My DPMS "LR Family" are all sub MOA rifles. 24" LR-308 http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c131/captrichardson/DPMS-308-2.jpg 24" LR-260 http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c131/captrichardson/LR-260sm.jpg My 24" LR-308 can shoot a ragged hole at 100 yards with a 5 shot group, assuming all supporting variables are addressed accordingly. If you are not getting sub MOA with your 24" LR-308, then I would say first try some different ammo, to me the "Gold Standard" is Federal Gold Medal Match 168 gr HPBTM. If the ammo change will not produce a sub MOA group, then you might want to have someone "scope" the barrel to see if there is a problem. I am sure not every DPMS LR-308 will be a sub MOA rifle, however I would think most of them should be, assuming all other variables are as they need to be. While building "Rifle Accuracy" should be an exact science, there is still some "Art" and "Unknowns" in how any rifle will ultimately perform. Per the previous posts, you could have an issue with something as simple as a barrel defect, or something as complicated as barrel harmonics. "Rifle Accuracy" can also be like Medicine and Auto Mechanics, sometimes you just have to try different things until you find something that works or fixes the problem! Best of Luck, Capt Richardson Thanks. I'm working up some different loads for the 24" as we speak. Faster burning powders and heavier bullets. I'll let you know. |
| Ok...So I broke down and just ordered the SASS. It looked to be a good deal. After checking prices of all the stuff I would add to a basic rifle I was coming up with a figure about $400 to $500 more then the price for the SASS. Thats even without adding some stuff that comes with the SASS that I would not add. Now I will just have to get see how many months it takes to get here. |
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Ok...So I broke down and just ordered the SASS. It looked to be a good deal. After checking prices of all the stuff I would add to a basic rifle I was coming up with a figure about $400 to $500 more then the price for the SASS. Thats even without adding some stuff that comes with the SASS that I would not add. Now I will just have to get see how many months it takes to get here. You're gonna be pleased...if it ever shows up. I've had one on layaway and will have it paid off in June. Looking forward to shooting it at the range instead of stopping by my ffl's to just hold the damn thing every once in a while. Not complainiang...at least I've got an ffl that will do a layaway...did it with a 24" LR308 and the SASS. Paid $1995 for the SASS and $1395 for the 24", fluted with a JP Trigger. |
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