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Posted: 9/25/2008 10:51:57 AM EDT
| I have an opportunity to buy a DPMS LR308 SASS and wanted to do a quick check on opinions of the current model (PRS stock and stainless barrel). Do owners like them? What is a good price these days? Is the price difference over other DPMS LR308 models worth it? |
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There was a pretty scathing review of one on Lightfighter. lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4706084761/m/5591034983 |
Yeah, I guess that is why they are so back ordered, everyone is buying "tactical theme lampstand kits". LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!! 
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Took my el cheapo LR TAC-20 to the range yesterday. Sub MOA with Black Hills 175gr at 100 yards, the gun was fired from a Harris bipod and sand bagged in. Didn't have alot of time to play with it much more than that. 100% reliable, and very accurate. Glass was an IOR 2.5-10 MP8 reticle in a ADM mount, with trigger work by Bill Springfield. Love this gun! |
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give me a break...that dudes been posting the same story about his SASS on other forums ...cut and paste... Just bitch and whining with out even shooting it yet.... George from GAprecision even said to me that he likes to build his GAP AR10s on DPMS because the mag systems are more reliable...than Armalite's..but that was before the new mags came out from Armalite finally... DPMS is used or copied by LWRC, POF, Fulton Armory etc... so they cant be all bad,,, Its not like stock rifles from Armalite are that much better...everyones going to end up changing the freefloats and components anyway... The SASS rifle is a good rifle for the price...performs as well as more expensive rigs but has some budget components....If you dont like the parts then build one from the ground up with the stuff you like...otherwise quite bitching like a bunch of babies especially if you havent tried one! The SASS will peform the same in any war time situation like a custom AR10....they will all have problems if all the crap gets into the gun.. no matter what you guys think...its still an AR and not a bolt gun. The components that come with the SASS are good parts and cheap...they are just as strong as any other brand out there....BUT they are heavy...Do I like em....NO thats why I went with DD on mine....I like the KAC BUIS instead of Troys.... ....so it may be cheaper for you to get the .308LR and modify it to the specs YOU like. the gun will shoot just as good as YOU can and better. We had a Noveske, DPMS SASS, GAP Ar10 and DPMS AP4, and LWRC SABR prototype at Quantico a couple months ago all side by side... Out to 800yards my AP4 was keeping up with em all! the SASS was keeping up with the Noveske..... If you were looking at performance...its hard to justify the cost of a Noveske when the street price of a SASS is $1700. LWRC....forget it....they need to work on it some more.. |
Spend over 6 grand on a Knights? Give me a break. A Knights is nice, but for the price its just a novelty item compared to what else is out there. |
I started with a LR-308 a long time ago, in fact I am pretty sure it was one of the first 500 produced. It took some work (trigger swap out, polish chamber & ramps), but it quickly became a sub moa rifle with a high level of reliability. In reality I would have just stuck with the LR-308, however the 24" Bull Stainless Barrel made it great from the bench, but not real practical to carry or maneuver with. I was looking at having my barrel rebuilt, or getting a new barrel that was shorter and lighter, and then the SASS came along and it looked like it would fit the bill nicely. I did not get a SASS at first because of the cost and availability issues. Fortunately I was able to find an Upper by itself without sights for a real deal so I grabbed it and threw it on my existing Lower.  I have only had it for a month, but from what I have seen so far it is very much on par with the LR-308. I have actually been surprised at how well it does shoot for only having an 18” barrel. Obviously trying to go long range (600-1000 yards) with an 18” barrel is not going to be the best option, however I do 90% of my shooting at 300 yards or less and it works perfectly at those ranges, no noticeable depreciation from what the 24” LR-308 was doing. In regards to some of the comments on Lightfighter about the DPMS .308 rifles: Rails – I don’t get out calipers and measure them, so I am not sure how close they are to spec. I do mount accessories and I have yet to find anything that will not fit or function on my AP-4, LR-308, or SASS. Fit / Finish – once again I don’t carry a set of calipers around, so I am not sure what may or may not be to some set of specs or standards. I do use my DPMS rifles, and as of now they all run with 99%-100% reliability, and they all easily produce sub moa groups with the right ammo and shooter. Granted I have done some minor work on some of them, but it was nothing major or deal breaking for me. Reality is you get what you pay for, so I don’t expect the out of the box quality of GAP built rifle for what DPMS charges. Personally I would rather save the money and do the work myself, if it even needs to be done at all. Reliability / Function – per above, with proper ammo, maintenance, and operation all of my DPMS .308 rifles run with 99%-100% reliability. Without any doubt they are just like any other AR and they will periodically have a typical AR problem like a failure to feed. However this is not the norm and it is typically the fault of some variable changing like ammo or mags. Get an Armalite, GAP, or KAC rifle – if you happen to be independently wealthy go for it! In my experiences, the DPMS rifles are more than acceptable, and they will not break your bank account. Personally, I have never been able to justify the price differences between the Armalite and DPMS .308 rifles. Companies like GAP make a really nice product, and if I had my employer or someone else paying the bill I would jump all over one. As far as KAC goes, unless you are in the Military Community forget it. If you think you can get a rifle, and the spare parts to keep it running, best of luck. Not to mention you might want to take a second mortgage or rob a bank to pay for it. DPMS rifles are not “perfect”, but neither are any of the other mass produced / off the shelf AR rifles. Trying to compare a stock DPMS rifle to something like a GAP built rifle is like trying to compare an apple to orange. You are going to get what you pay for. Bottom line for me, I got my rifles for significantly less than any other .308 on the market, and they work reliably and shoot Sub MOA. Needless to say, I will not be converting any of them into a lamp any time soon! There also does not seem to be a shortage of other DPMS .308 rifle users posting here who are also very satisfied with the performance of their rifles. Given all of that, you can probably figure out for yourself where things really stand with the DPMS .308 rifles! Best of Luck, "Capt Richardson" PS: Sorry to get some what off track. I would probably not buy a stock complete SASS Rifle at the moment unless money is not an issue and you can find one in stock. They are very difficult to find, and they are bringing some premium prices. If it was me, I would "build a SASS" by buying various components and assembling them into a finished rifle. If you shop the internet retailers and Gunbroker you should not have a problem finding what you need. It will take a little time and effort, but you will probably save some money, and get a rifle that you like better in the end. |
| I've had a DPMS LR308T for about 4 months now. The only mod was a JP trigger spring kit for $20. I'm not going to war with it. I hunt with it and plink with it. It's been reliable and accurate from day one. I love it. I'm not willing to spend more than the $1100 I spent on the DPMS for another brand when this one does everything I ask it to. To each his own. Brand loyalty will always exist in some form or another. I just buy what I like and what works for me. |
| I don't know how long a lot of you have been around here, but this is the "Variant" forum for a reason. Back before they had this forum, all the Armalite people just went ape shit over anybody posting in "Their" forum about anything other than Armalite goodness. Of course I don't remember them calling KAC's tomato stakes either. Well. they made a forum for us lowly folks who just couldn't swallow their brand of Kool-Aid. It's funny how now we have more Armalite people in here in our forum telling us what's wrong with our rifles than we do "Variant" folks. Sounds to me like they have something they think they need to prove. Maybe it's a slight inferiority complex for buying a rifle for nothing but the name. And I thought the Colt Kool-Aid drinkers were bad. What a funny world we live in. |
Doesn't look like anything crazy. The red dot appears to be a Burris Fastfire, but I could be wrong. I do know I see a Nikon Tactical in ARMS #22L Rings with their TRC and Rail on an unknown riser, probably with cant built in considering the pitiful amount of elevation Nikon puts in the bigger Tactical. I don't get too caught up in the brand debate. Just as you have your kool aid drinkers who get caught up in Armalite-the same applies to DPMS shooters. It's like comparing the Savage vs. Remington shooters. Not so much because the Rem guys are saying their stuff is better as much as the Savage guys need to defend their purchases against anything that may be said about them. I own an Armalite SASS because I got it at such a good price and it's a great rifle put together right the first time-but it also costs a full grand more than the DPMS. Those that want to get into a big-bore precision gas gun cheap, I wholeheartedly recommend the DPMS. Preferably the version RGuns sells because it doesn't come with that gay ass high rise, slick side receiver. It's known to be accurate straight from the box and is ripe for customization. On the other hand, I have a hard time recommending the AR10T (the closest available comparison from Armalite) as it has nothing I want in a package that expensive-so I usually readily recommend the DPMS or a custom. If you save a little longer and a few hundred bucks you can just as easily get a custom over the 10T. |
Sorry for the slow reply, busy weekend. Lawman734 pretty much covered it. I threw the Yankee Hill Riser on so that I could push the scope further forward, and I was also able to get clearance over the BUIS. I have not had any issues with the Nikon getting enough clicks, of course I am shooting under 600 yds 95% of the time. On top of that riser is a set of ARMS Rings with a Tactical Ring Rail A Backup Red Dot is on top of that (I started using NC Star, I now use the Burris) If I had my preference I would use one of the 45 Degree Angle Mounts for the Backup Red Dot, however I don't have enough clearance anywhere to mount it. Going above the scope will work, but it forces you to go from a cheek weld to a chin weld to get high enough to clear the top of the scope and see the Red Dot. Next, I am going to try to mount a ring on the scope, and cant it to a side angle. I will try to get some more pics of the various options if I can. Best of Luck, "Capt Richardson" |
+1, I couldn't agree with you more. At the range people come up to me and talk to me about my "AR-10", then when I tell them its a DPMS LR-308 build they look at me like its some Chi-com crap. Well after cease fire and going down range, the target results speak for themselves; sub-moa all day long out of mine. Some people believe everything they read on the internet and unfortunately there is a lot of baseless DPMS bashing for no good reason. |
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J-L "Took my el cheapo LR TAC-20 to the range yesterday. Sub MOA with Black Hills 175gr at 100 yards, the gun was fired from a Harris bipod and sand bagged in. Didn't have alot of time to play with it much more than that. 100% reliable, and very accurate. Glass was an IOR 2.5-10 MP8 reticle in a ADM mount, with trigger work by Bill Springfield. Love this gun!" That's good. WoW, I also got a TAC 20, with RRA 2 Stage trigger, leupold scope and harris bipod. I've shot over 60 rnds of 175 BH win match king, didn't get a good result. I've had 3 blown primers also with BH, for excessive pressure. Check here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=30&t=163853 Post with your result, I want to see.. Arghh, I'm jealous. What is wrong with my TAC 20? |
Food for thought: Ammo - Have you tried any Federal 168 gr Gold Medal Match or Hornady 168 gr AMAX? None of my .308 rifles like BH 175 gr ammo. I can take a rifle and shoot a group using Federal Gold Medal Match, and then shoot a group using Black Hills, and the Black Hills group will typically be at least 0.5 MOA larger. Not sure what it is with the BH 175 gr .308 ammo, because all I shoot in my .223 rifles is BH Match ammo and it is all sub MOA. Also, in my experiences the M118LR is usually 1.0-1.5 MOA at best. I have 3 DPMS .308 rifles that all consistently shoot sub MOA with Federal 168 gr Gold Medal Match, and as you can see from the other topic that you started there are plenty more shooting that. If you try the ammo switch, and still have a problem, contact DPMS they should take care of you. Best of Luck, "Capt Richardson" |
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I did some testing this weekend with my Armalite SASS, shooting both suppressed and unsuppressed (for POI shift) using Black Hills Match, Cor-Bon 175 and 190 Match, M118 and M118LR. The best groups were with the Cor-Bon-with the 190's giving me a sub-1/4MOA suppressed 5 shot group. The unsuppressed group was still sub-1/2MOA. The BH and M118LR were both roughly 1/2MOA suppressed at .5-.6MOA and sub-3/4MOA unsuppressed. I didn't expect much from the M118 as it's notorious for being shit-but it was still a rough 1MOA load suppressed and unsuppressed. My experience with M118LR-actual issued stuff, not the XM stuff or the stuff the CMP was selling has been very good and my results are generally the same as I experienced this past weekend Cor-Bon I think is as close to handloaded ammo you can get from the factory, I think it's that good. However it's price point is quite high and I can't afford to just drop money on a case of the stuff. Black Hills can be hit or miss. Sometimes it's awesome, sometimes it's not all that great. I also think it's slow. The M118 I have is from an old case and is actually XM118 made in 1964. It actually has LC Match brass instead of the typical LC brass as is more commonly seen in later loads. I guess it was loaded good in the beginning because that's the best I've seen from any I've shot before. |
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Gee, I sure feel bad now for buying a POS LR.308, Look at how terribly inaccurate this crappy gun is. Five shots at 100meters:  Twenty shots at 100 meters:   Sure wish I'd have spent four times as much for a name. Oh by the way, it will ring the gong at 1000 meters all day long. And yes, I only shoot my handloads.  It's the one on the bottom. And it does have the stock 8lb pull trigger(which may account for the horizontal stringing, that and my old crappy eyes). |
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