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Posted: 9/20/2008 4:57:44 PM EDT
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Finished my build a couple of months ago. 16" WOA barrel, unfinished in white. MSTN QC brake, RRA half quad handguard, CAA collapsible stock. MI flip up rear BUIS, PRI flip up front BUIS. Lower is plain-jane kit lower with 2,000 ton trigger pull. Note: When I first got the barrel, I thought I could see a tiny piece of steel in the muzzle, took a q-tip and it kept snagging on something, thought it was probably not a big deal and would quickly wear down. I've shot this rifle with three different scopes, the last was my 4.5-14X50 VXL Leupold. I have not been able to get better than 2" group at 25 yards. I've been shooting the Remington 115g OTM. This is from sandbags. Horrendous. I can shoot my other AR .223 offhand standing and shoot a 1/2" group at that distance easily. I broke the rifle down again and cleaned it, removed the upper from the lower and took a close look at the barrel after removing the QCB. With a light, the barrel internals looks like a mirror or glass...perfect. I can't find a blemish or toolmark anywhere. I know everyone speaks hightly of White Oak barrels. I took a q-tip and slid it around the edges of the lands on the muzzle and had no snagging, must have worn off. Scope mounts are Leupold mounts on a riser. Both scopes previous to the Leupold were shot without a riser. How much of an effect on accuracy could the collapsible stock have? I'm thinking neglible since I don't pull it into much shoulder much...this thing has no recoil at all. The only other thing I can think of is the trigger pull. I usuall shoot a 1.5lb pull on my .308Remington and it shoots .5moa or better, depending on me. But again, I can shoot 1" groups all day at 25 yards, iron sights, stock trigger on my other .223. I'm going to call WOA next week and talk to John about it, maybe send it back and let him check it out. Anyone got any suggestions? I really like the setup I've got here and the 6.8 itself (other than being one loud mother). |
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1: get a new trigger or polish the contact points on that one 2: Remington ammo is the WORST 6.8ammo made. Check out the accuracy gotten with there absolute best premium ammo in the 6.8 upper eval HERE 6" groups @ 100 with a barrel that gets 1 moa with other. 3: Goto Silver State Armory and order their 110 gr Pro Hunter and or 115 OTM ammo. These are proven accuracy performers. You should get around 1 moa with it. 4: After this if it still is not shooting check your barrel nut. In fact check it anyways. I have seen quite a few uppers of late from self builds that the barrel nut was or came loose. Remember tighten and loosen 3 times and then set on the final. The burrs you saw were from them turning the crown and they as you found are gone after the first couple shots. WOA barrels typically will go .5-1.5 with decent factory ammo (not Remington) and .5-.75 with tuned hand loads. They are made from Wilson blanks by Compass Lake. They are a step above a typical AR barrel but a step below a match barrel .My first barrel was a Denny's Recon whihc are made from the same blank by the same company Compass Lake. It was a .5-1moa shooter with most ammo. If you purchased it in th last week or so it may even have the SPCII instead of SAAMi chamber which is a big plus. Try those thins I have suggested above and I think you will find the issue. TO give you an idea of just how bad Remington Factory 6.8 ammo is. Some of it was checked. The COALs were all over the place varying up to .1!! They were broken down and powder variations were around .75-1 grain(thats about 50-75 fps).The necks on Rem cases tend to be thin and vary too. The ammo that couldn't hit the side of a barn was reassembled with the powder charges and COAL set to a consistent measurement and they shot .75 groups.It shows that there QC absolutely sucks. Anything Remignton should be steered clear of in the 6.8 cartidge. Also they are by far the most expensively price 6.8 ammo. |
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Pretty funny how you answered your own question "2000 LB trigger", ditch it and you won't regret it. As mentioned the only thing the Remington ammo is good for is barely getting you on paper, it's the Wolf of the American brands but priced as if it were gold. How many rounds have you put though your new stick? Break it in good, put the scope of your choice on it, get a decent trigger and watch your groups reduce in half at least with some decent ammo. My WOA really likes the ProHunters. |
Thank you very much for that information, I'm pretty hopeful that this will be resolved with ammo now. I had read the article about the tests before, but had forgotten about the Remington ammo. Sounded VERY familiar. Going to go with the SSA. My brother's father in law owns a gun store, going to see if he'll stock it for me (and others with the 6.8). As far as the barrel nut is concerned...I have no doubts about it. I tightened it twice to 80 ft-lbs, then once to 95 ft-lbs to align the gas tube with the barrel nut hole. Maybe excessive, but I have missed good bucks before due to loose scope base mount screws and am a little anal about tightening and loc-tite blue. Anyways, thanks much for the information and very timely. My wife was bringing home a receiver clamp and torque wrench and armorers wrench from my uncle's house at lunch today and I was going to strip it down and remove the barrel to send back to WOA. I owe you big for this...thanks much. |
I've had 62 rounds put throught it so far. I broke it in correctly as I wanted it to shoot as good as possible. The barrel is impressive to me now as far as easily and quickly it cleans up. I alternate between Shooter's Choice for lead and carbon fouling and Barne's CR-10 for copper fouling. I also use a copper brush and patches with boreguide. When I clean a barrel, it is spotless. My Remington 700 VS in .308 is a different story. Although it shoots very tight groups with my reloads of Nosler Accubonds, it has machine tooling marks in the barrel and rapidly fouls. Groups open up at around 20 shots. I wonder that some of this may be due to my lack of understanding on how to clean a rifle at the time I purchased it. My little brother works at a gun store and opened my eyes on the correct way to clean a rifle. That's a shame as I was 33 years old. My grandfather owns many rifles and shotguns and never cleans the barrel internals, just keeps the externals immaculate. |
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I think you will find it in the ammo and trigger for sure. Do both and you should have a 1moa with SSA PH ammo. I do want to caution you about putting a barrel nut on that tight as you have to remember the receiver is aluminum. If you are overly concerned blue loctite would take care of that. All receivers are out of square even the billet ones right from the barrel receiver hole and threads; over tightening can exacerbate that. But if its worked for you in the past....... Blue loctite is your friend. |
Don't you go putting a quarter or dime up there on the target to hide the fliers either.  
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Wow, never thought of that one, thank sfor the hint...er whatever. |
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Okay, you guys were right. I got my Hornady dies, IMR 4168, and Nosler Accubond 110g this weekend. I decided to load 5 rounds last night with the starting load recommended 22g of the IMR. I ruined one of the cases setting the crimp. I have never used the crimper before and overdid it on the first one. Poor case looked like a mushroom or something. Anyways, my wife bought me a .45-70 Gvt. Handi Rifle to primitive hunt with, so I put an old Bushnell and rings/base on it and took it and the 6.8 to the range this evening. Didn't have much time to shoot. Sighted in the Handi Rifle in first...only tood 4 shots to get it 1.5" high at 100 yards. Believe it or not. Thing kicks like a mule, so I was motivated to get it done. Had to sight in the scope on the 6.8 as I had taken it off last weekend before talking to you guys, so I used the old Remingont OTM for that. Really running out of daylight, sweating, fogging up my safety glasses, heart pounding from all the walking back and forth, but finally shot the 4 rounds of Nosler Accubond reloads I had in my box. Three of the shots will fit under a quarter, the fourth shot was out to one side 1/2 inch from the fartherest right shot. Shows some horizontal stringing, no doubt to the 2000lb trigger pull and poor rest I had. (Had forgotten my Brownell sandbags). Anyways, this isn't definitive I know, but shows much promise. I hope to reload some more tomorrow and get back to the range Thursday or Friday evening. If I can shoot consistent 1/2 inch or better 5 shot groups with this guy, it's a keeper and will be sitting next to my .308Rem700. Again, thanks for the advice. I can't post a picture right now as I have dialup here at home, maybe later if you guys are interested in the Nosler groupings. Oh, yeah. The bolt carrier isn't coming back far enough to pick up a fresh round or to lock back on empty mag...maybe the 22 grains isn't enough?? Probably go up to 23 grains on the next loads.  Okay, okay, here's the one without the quarter...  ETA: Pictures |
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Well looks like I will have to wait until next week to shoot for groups. I went to the range and the gate was locked with a new lock. I forgot that the membership expires Oct 1 every year. Went to the dentist's office where the gate keys are distributed and membership dues paid (dentist owns the range) and the place was closed until Tuesday. Bummer, but gives me more time to reload some cartridges. I've got 30 carefully rolled candidates at this point, hopefully I can get a good idea of what I'm dealing with here and have plenty left over to put the smackdown on a doe and hog. |
| With H322 you should be able to go up to 29 grains. The V-max is similar in length and appearance and is 110 grain and I have loaded them to 29 grains with no problems. They actually say 29.2 compressed but I try to stay a couple tenths off max to try out the round. I can't wait to get some Accubonds because they are going to be the best of both worlds accurate and extremely deadly. |
This is the load I use. Your best accuracy will come with minimum spread in velocities. Get yourself a chrony and you can build the most accurate ammo on a 25 yard range. |
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Update from range trip. I finally got a new key to the range after trying to catch up with the dentist all week, he seems to never work. Anyways, the results were less than stellar. With BR2 primers, 23 g charge, and the COAL run out, the accuracy was 1MOA. I shot 2 five shot groups at 100 yards and one 5 shot group at 200 yards. I didn't take pictures as these groups were shot on the back of corn sacks as we had left the "official" targets at home. I had some "shoot 'n see" stickers to put on them for visuals. Anyhow, this is okay for hunting. I think I'm going to try the H322 like you guys suggested and move to small rifle primer and SSA brass sometime in the near future. I'm a casual reloader, so I wasn't aware that smaller primers often result in tighter groups. I'm looking at a Chip McCormick trigger group, but they want $225.00 for it at the local gun store and the wife's not going to let me turn loose of that kind of cash this close to the holidays. I really appreciate the suggestions you guys have posted here, it's saved me a lot of frustration for sure. Thanks KEA and BullitBoy. On the singleshot issue, or short cycle, I pulled the gas block back and noticed that when I have the gas block pushed all the way back against the barrel stop, the gas port is misaligned by half the diameter of the gas port opening on the PRI gas block. I bumped it forward to mate them up square and will see what happens later, probably tomorrow. ETA: Bumped the gas block forward a little (1/8") to correct the misalignment of the gasport with gasblock hole. Cycles beautifully now. |
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