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Posted: 1/9/2008 10:51:41 AM EDT
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I ran across this and is it too good to be true or what? 50 cal AR15 upper for 1300$ Will this upper attach to standard lowers and be redy to shoot 50cal BMG? Any input on this would be most appreciated |
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Yeah. It's a single shot upper that mounts to your existing lower. I think the Bohica brand model is even cheaper. They have been around for a while. Personally, I don't trust the aluminum receiver and such holding up against a round of that power. When I get a .50 it will be all steel. Most likely a Serbu. |
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www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=3&t=221175 There are other options. I know of at least 5 companies making quality AR uppers in 50BMG. Check out the .50 forum, and ask some questions if you are curious. I have an Ultralite 50 upper already, and am buying a Bohica upper as well. I have about 120 rounds through the UP50 upper with nary a hiccup. 
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There's 5-6 makers out there now building these, I own one by Advanced Long Range Systems and you're looking at about a 1 year built time if you go with that company. However he builts match grade upper assemblies that shoot remarkably well. This is the 3 shot test group that came with mine using a mil-spec chamber.  It's fairly large at 5 feet long and weighs 40 pounds. I use a DPMS single shot lower so as to not swing all that weight off of an ordinary AR15 lower(all of mine are Ca registered AWs so irreplaceable). 
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Don't buy that Watson's upper. You'll regret it. The way it work is you have to load a round into the the upper and then screw a breech-plug in using a supplied wrench, kinda like an inline muzzleloader. You then assemble the takedown pin, fire the gun, pull out the take down pin, unscrew the breech plug, extract the round, and repeat. If you want a real 50 BMG upper, which are actually great rifles that are competitive at 1000-yd competition go with one of the following: Accuracy Longrange Systems, ALS, www.50bmg.net (I've got one of these on order, should be here this spring, hell of a gun for $2K) Spider Arms, Ferret 50, www.ferret50.com And yes they work just fine with standard aluminum AR lowers. The machining tolerances on these uppers are so tight that your AR lower will suffer very little stress during the firing of the rifle. I'm in the process of putting togther a lower for my ALS that's on order and I'm using a standard STAG lower. Lots of guys use DPMS Kali lowers but I already had a number of STAG lowers so I decided to just use one of them. If you are really interested in 50's consider joining the Fifty Caliber Shooters Association, www.fcsa.org. That was the best money I ever spent relating to 50 BMG. I'm a member. I've shot 3 matches in the last two years and plan to shoot 2-3 matches this year. 1000-yd shooting is lots of fun. -David Edgewood, NM |
Thanks alot, good info guys  ALS seems to be the way to go for the conversion process... But why not spend the extra money and get a complete bolt action BMG? I think the Armalite one is 3K, wonder if it has any better groups than the ALS? edit: Accuracy: Armalite: 7" - 8" @ 1000 yds ALS has seen 3.5 at 1000yds supposely |
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Both the ALS and the AR-50 are capable of excellent long range accuracy. The ALS number is accurate for 5 shots at 1000 yds. I think the AR-50 may beat the figure you present in the hands of the right shooter. I'd give a bit of a nod to the ALS, both with regard to accuracy and since the government will never know you have a 50 BMG. -David Edgewood, NM |
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The ALS upper when I bought it was only 1600-1700 dollars and I lucked out on mine in that instead of waiting 3-4 months, I called up to see if anyone had canceled their order and if he had one simply laying around. It was painted silver but I had it on my door step in about 10 days rather than 3-4 months later. I do wish I bought a complete rifle though from one of the big name manufacturers and here is why. If the 50BMG is ever added to the NFA list and the existing ones out there are grandfathered, complete guns from the big makers are going to skyrocket in price while the upper assemblies are going to only see a fraction of that because they are essentially a conversion part. Armalite and Barrett have the clout to survive the NFA simply on their government contracts(Barrett for instance) or off of their diverse product range(Armalite's other models), if you ever have a problem with your 50 from either of those manufacturers you've got a factory you can send it back to for service. With these upper assembly conversions, should a ban come down the pike, most of the small shops will be folding up with limited access to having work done on your upper should you need a new barrel or some other work done. As for why I got an ALS 50 upper, it was the only thing I could afford at the time and while it's likely going to have a fairly long service life I do wish I got a Barrett M99(if I could of bought the stripped lower if it was available, it wasn't) but more specifically I wish I got in on an Armalite AR50 or a McMillan action to have built later on. |
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Buying on the logic of price increases after actual bans is kind of like the tail wagging the dog. I buy a rifle based upon performance. The ALS performs. And the rifle is a very simple design. Shouldn't be a big deal to get a barrel swapped by a competent gunsmith. Also, barrel life on a match-grade 50 BMG remains match grade for anywhere from 2000 to 4000 rounds depending upon who you talk to. Now I don't know about you but I don't have the cash to shoot 2000 rounds of 50 anytime soon. My typical shooting is about 250 rounds per year. That should last me a long while. If I get worried, i'll order a second barrel and a spare firing pin or two. I'm not knocking Armalite or Barrett which are both excellent companies and they both make solid 50's. What i'm saying is that a 50 BMG bolt gun, whole gun or upper is a pretty simple item once its built and should have little in the way of maintenance other than the typical nightmarish cleaning it requires. Besides, when you get upper, the gov't doesn't know you have it. Secondarily, if the guns become outlawed or NFA'd, I expect I won't be shooting mine very much any more since primers and bullets will become hard to find. Don't worry about the long run other than to buy your 50 BMG and components before Barack or Hillary get into office and ban them. Now is the time to buy, if there ever was a time. -David Edgewood, NM |
I'm just curious what this entails. My UL50 with milsurp ammo shoots so clean all it takes is a couple passes of the boresnake and it's squeaky clean again. Once in a while I need to pull the bolt apart but for the most part it is self cleaning. Do most 50s require more cleaning? |
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You haven't attacked the copper in your bore yet, apparently. 50 BMGs are notorious for being massive copper foulers. The depth of the grooves and the sheer amount of copper (size of the bullet) are the culprit. All you are getting out with that boresnake is the top layer of carbon left by the powder. It takes serious chemicals and mechanical action to remove copper fouling. I'm guessing your rifle has a motherload of copper in it if you've never cleaned it. I use Boretech Eliminator, a stainless one-piece rod, a stainless jag, and stainless brushes to clean my State Arms. Typical cleaning time til there is no copper fouling left is around 1-2 hours after 30 rounds or so. -David Edgewood, NM |
I'm not saying buy it based on it becoming an investment. I'm saying buy what is likely to have the most longevity and not wind up being a one hit wonder in the event of a ban. And yes, in worst case scenario you do have to sell it will be precisely those companies still left around that hold the most value. Match shooters may put high value in accuracy but within those respects they are gonna value things like McBros actions and maybe a few token others including the AR50. General use shooters are likely to be firmly in the Barrett and then Armalite camps. Trailing off with other manufacturers then finally winding up in the upper assembly camp. I don't think many smiths out there are gonna wanna take liability on the upper assemblies after the custom builders responsible for it fold up shop, that's what causes me some anxiety with having an upper assembly. Barrett and Armalite are the biggest commonly available names and most likely to be around tomorrow even if ALL 50BMG sales were to suddenly stop. You need a new barrel, ship it to them and have them work on it. Also, the AR50 is likely to have a decent amount of custom shop support given it's essentially a monsterous Remington 700. It's all about maintaining choices and options in the future. My main premise is that the custom builders are prone to dying off either by legislation or by natural means while full tilt manufacturing companies can go onto outlive not only their original investors/corporate staff but all of us together. If you've got an NFA registered 50 I'd want one(still do) from one of the bigger companies that are most prominent with best chances of surviving to service us after a ban.
Funny you mention that, I've got 2k in supplies with 900-1k loaded rounds currently. At my current rate of fire it's 10-15 years of loaded ammo with supplies to stretch it another 10-15 years.
Talk all the tin foil "the gov't. doesn't know you have it" rhetoric you want but all the match grade accuracy in the world isn't gonna matter one bit if you're too scared to take your unregistered rifle out to shoot it and practice with it. Mind you I'm a Ca. gun owner with several AR15s and the ALS 50 and thanks to having registered them(begrudgingly) allows me to continue to shoot them not only for the purpose of enjoying the shooting experience but to get crucial and worth while practice and experiences. It's the very simple fact that I'm currently living under a ban and have a grandfathered upper that is leaving me with some hindsight and wishing I had gone the extra mile for a complete rifle. If I had the money I would of bought several in fact. Having a 50BMG upper that isn't registered means precisely dick to me, I got the damn thing to shoot not sit in the save with a token amount of ammo with deluded theories of the government not knowing about it and it somehow helping me in any way. If such things concern a person then get an 80% sideplate and build up a semiauto M2 along with a truck load of ammo and take delight in big bad gubmerment never knowing you have it. One would be outright stupid to have a 50BMG upper assembly and not register it if the 50BMG is added to the NFA with provisions that such uppers must be registered as a conversion piece.
On that point we are entirely in agreement. |
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Uglygun: Man what a tyrade. Move out of Kommifornia, it's making you tense. I can't imagine staying in a state that wanted me to register my guns. Worst case I think i'd be storing them with a friend in AZ or NV if I absolutely had to live in Kommifornia and sure as heck wouldn't register them. Registration is the first step toward confiscation. -David Edgewood, NM |
And there it was, have been expecting the ant burner response given your statements on not complying with registration should the 50BMG be added to the NFA. Want a tirade, you got it.
And if I didn't register exactly what kind of fucking use would having a 50BMG rifle in Arizona or Nevada serve me? You've been here a year now and still haven't figured out that the Californians on this board don't take well to ant burner responses? Your recommendation of moving a gun out of state or not complying with registration is precisely the kind of denial of use that those behind registration are hoping for. Further, they take delight in the notion of somebody like you being dumb enough to get caught with an unregistered weapon and charged with a crime that makes you lose your gun owning rights. Want to be stupid? That's fine and dandy but don't flippantly run around suggesting others do the same because not everyone agrees with your logic. I suppose that since you disagree with registration so much that those out there with M16s and other NFA items registered within the NFA provisions must be some kind of superb idiot. Better that they have unregistered M16s or whatever so you can take delight in knowing you have the firearms and the government doesn't know you have them? Disagree with registration all you want but I've got 10+ years owning AR15s under the California registration, 3+ with the 50BMG. And you want to sit here and lecture me that avoiding registration, keeping an unregistered weapon, not being able to legally/freely use said unregistered weapon, and that taking the risk of getting caught with that weapon is somehow worth the risk? Suggesting such a thing only has one factor and that is the novelty and self pride of having the "I got one over on the government" sense of satisfaction from that act of civil disobedience. That argument reeks of maturity and logic.... |
And it's comments close to those that got you the treatment in the first place. Gotta insult my intelligence for living in California and putting up with something so horrible as registration?
If I really wanted to use profanity I would of made sure to really make use of it. I used it appropriately to illustrate the blantantly stupid arguments on your part. It's obvious you're on such a high horse living in your "free state" that I could care less what you try to use in attempt to declare a victory in your argument... Want to start a discussion on civil disobedience and not complying with registration hop up into the general discussion forum instead of shitting all over the argument I originally made as to WHY somebody may want to stick to a major make rifle. Coming from a position that holds experience in having an evil registered rifle and some hindsight one could say it's an opinion that holds some merit. But what did you do? Attack it because I am "sheeple" living in a state to be villified. Gee, thanks for the support now go to hell. The mere fact that you go so far as to suggest that people buy something with the intent to not comply with NFA registration shows who here is deluded(who cares about uppers at that point, go buy a 50 in a face to face transaction and not give 2 shits either way). |
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I've not suggested a thing about not complying with NFA. Maybe you need a little work on reading comprehension. 50's aren't NFA weapons. Enjoy your self in Kommifornia. I'm done with this discussion. It's not going anywhere and has descended into a pissing match. -David Edgewood, New Mexico |
Your words were,
It may have been a leap but it does imply you view certain advantages in aquiring such a thing if for planning a future act of civil disobedience by deliberately failing to comply with the NFA registration should the 50BMG be added.
AND nowhere did I imply that they were, in fact every time I made an argument for purchasing a complete rifle I made explicit mention of IF they should be added to the NFA and why they would be beneficial. It was your veiled mention of why an upper would be beneficial in comparison to a big manufacturer's rifle in combination with your protests of registration that made me suspicious of everything you suggest in the first place.
Good, you should of bowed out a lot sooner. |
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Back on topic. There are many better choices than the Watson. I have a Ferret50 coming soon to a safe near me!  Seems the ALS and the Ferret50 are a hard pair to choose from. 1 thing tipped the scale for me, SpiderArms is in Florida, 2 hrs from me. I think my NEXT .50 will be the Ultralite50.  |
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