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Posted: 12/2/2005 12:51:52 PM EDT
I received my AP4 with quad rails today alongwith my tan ergo grip, rail covers, and tan buttstock. Everything went together nicely and I love the way it looks.

I slapped the backup sight on and went to the range. I did not have time to zero, but I could hit steel at 100 yards right out of the box. 40 rounds without a hiccup as well.

I am amazed at how smooth the gun is. To me it kicks far less than an FAL or a G3 which I had in the past.

If someone can tell me how to post pics here I will post one.
Link Posted: 12/2/2005 1:57:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Martens:
I received my AP4 with quad rails today alongwith my tan ergo grip, rail covers, and tan buttstock. Everything went together nicely and I love the way it looks.

I slapped the backup sight on and went to the range. I did not have time to zero, but I could hit steel at 100 yards right out of the box. 40 rounds without a hiccup as well.

I am amazed at how smooth the gun is. To me it kicks far less than an FAL or a G3 which I had in the past.

If someone can tell me how to post pics here I will post one.



We need some pics. What muzzle brake/flash surpressor are you using? To me, my AP4 has much stouter recoil than my HK G3 or my Spanish CETME, it is almost 2 pounds lighter than those and I'm using a Vortex flash surpressor too, so that could explain it.
Link Posted: 12/4/2005 8:47:13 AM EDT
I went to the range today with some surplus ammo, South African I am guessing as the box was marked R1 M1.

I wanted to sight in my backup iron sights, SPOT red dot, and a 4X scope I had.

I had a little trouble with the irons as I had to raise the front sight post to get it zeroed at 25 yards. I ended up being 1 inch high at 25 and about 4-5 inches hight at 100 with the irons. I am guessing that the problem is with the backup rear sight.

The SPOT red dot zeroed easily. I used the irons to get the red dot close and it took 5 shots to get zeroed. My final group at 25 yards was one ragged hole right at point of aim. This put me about 3 inches high at 100 yards. I was able to hit steel silhouettes at 150 and 200 aiming center mass. I have used a lot of red dots through the years, even an aimpoint and this is in my opinion the best one I have used. The dot was much cleaner than the aimpoint. The scope returns to zero well too.

I then sighted in the 4X scope at 100 yards. It was holding a 1 inch group with the surplus ammo shooting off a M16 folding plastic bipod. Not ideal, but everyone seems to be out of the YHM adaptor to let me use my Harris bipod. The gun was sweet with this combo. As fast as I could get on the targets at 150 and 200 I could get hits.

Overall I am extremely happy with the DPMS. It fed the 120 rounds of surplus without a hiccup. I shot it at 150 and 200 better than any other rifle I have used (AR15's, FAl, G3, micro gaili).

I did notice that it won't chamber a round from a full mag after a lock back by hitting the bolt release, on a lock back. I had to pull the charging handle and it would feed perfectly. My guess is everything is still stiff. Partial mags less than 18 worked fine.

I did polish the chamber and feed ramps yesterday so I don't know how much this helped.

If someone can show me how to post pics here, I'll upload some.

Link Posted: 12/5/2005 3:47:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/5/2005 3:49:38 AM EDT by captrichardson]
To post pics:

Step One:
You will need to upload your pics to a website that hosts pictures, you can go to Photobucket, they will do it for free.
Photobucket
Try to keep your picture size fairly small, physical size of 5" x 7" and/or file size under 1 meg.

Step Two:
Start a new post and in the body use the "Insert Picture" function, to use it click on it (it is the square box icon with a mountain and sun inside it and a black arrow at the upper left corner, it is just below the window where you type your text along with all of the other functions and icons). When you click on it a seperate box window will pop up asking for the URL / Web Address of the picture that you would like post.

The easiest way to handle the URL is to have one window open with AR-15 pulled up, and one window open with Photobucket pulled up. Go the Photobucket window, go to the picture you want, right click and copy the website address listed with it. Then go to the AR-15 window use the insert picture function, and when it asks for the address just right click and paste it.

If you do it corrrectly you should end up with something in your text that looks like:
[ img ] http:// "the URL of your picture" [ / img ] (I added some extra spaces in the example)

If you have any problems, let me know and I can walk you through it.

Thanks, Good Luck,
"Capt Richardson"


Link Posted: 12/6/2005 4:02:50 AM EDT
I just got an AP4 in as a Test & Evaluation gun for an upcoming article. I was not sure what to expect from it. But I have to say I was impressed. The fit and finnish was very nice. The chromeing on the bolt carrier was much nicer than the 556 guns. I fired 10 rounds into a snail trap with no hicup. This week it will go out in a nice cold brisk winter day and put a few hundred through it. The carbine is quite solid and it is great that it uses KAC SR-25 mags. Finally some affordable magazines for my SR-25. Only hicup I see with this AP4 I have here is it is a bitch to get the cam pin out. There is little to no clearence with the carrier key. But it can be worked out and functioned fine. Intersting cartridge case defelctor/forward assist. Useless, but neat. Never needed a forward assist on either my SR-25 nor my AR10A2 rifle. We shall see what happens at the range. So far a thumbs up.
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 4:10:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By crsbar:
I just got an AP4 in as a Test & Evaluation gun for an upcoming article. I was not sure what to expect from it. But I have to say I was impressed. The fit and finnish was very nice. The chromeing on the bolt carrier was much nicer than the 556 guns. I fired 10 rounds into a snail trap with no hicup. This week it will go out in a nice cold brisk winter day and put a few hundred through it. The carbine is quite solid and it is great that it uses KAC SR-25 mags. Finally some affordable magazines for my SR-25. Only hicup I see with this AP4 I have here is it is a bitch to get the cam pin out. There is little to no clearence with the carrier key. But it can be worked out and functioned fine. Intersting cartridge case defelctor/forward assist. Useless, but neat. Never needed a forward assist on either my SR-25 nor my AR10A2 rifle. We shall see what happens at the range. So far a thumbs up.



still tempted to buy one. I see them at Kieslers for 125 and extra mags for 25. Those prices destroy EE prices on this rifle....
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 5:39:19 AM EDT
I got a chance to qualify with it yesterday and shot my tightest qual targets to date. The gun is a real shooter.

Another 60 rounds through without a problem. It will even strip the top round from a full mag after a lockback now that it has loosened up.

I did notice that I was a little slower on the CQB drills with the gun than my .223. The extra weight slowed things down a bit. But I bought it to give me a little more punch and stability in longer range shooting which it does wonderfully.

If you are in the market for a .308 I would recommend it, two thumbs up.
Link Posted: 12/7/2005 4:03:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/7/2005 4:06:40 PM EDT by Ardenner]

Originally Posted By Martens:
I received my AP4 with quad rails today alongwith my tan ergo grip, rail covers, and tan buttstock. Everything went together nicely and I love the way it looks.

I slapped the backup sight on and went to the range. I did not have time to zero, but I could hit steel at 100 yards right out of the box. 40 rounds without a hiccup as well.

I am amazed at how smooth the gun is. To me it kicks far less than an FAL or a G3 which I had in the past.

If someone can tell me how to post pics here I will post one.



I have the same YHM (the DPMS factory rail) quad rails on my 18." I actually hate them. I really really want to replace it with the SWS rail the fits over the gas block. However, for $400 I am 1/3 of the way to a nice bolt rifle.

SWS Rail for DPMS 308

Unfortunately, I know of no rail that has full rail slots and fits over the gigantic gas block. Also the fact that I have the raised rail on the receiver make things more difficult, but I’ll stop complaining. I hope you enjoy your rifle, I think I’ll get one when I finish my degree.
Link Posted: 12/7/2005 4:09:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ardenner:

Originally Posted By Martens:
I received my AP4 with quad rails today alongwith my tan ergo grip, rail covers, and tan buttstock. Everything went together nicely and I love the way it looks.

I slapped the backup sight on and went to the range. I did not have time to zero, but I could hit steel at 100 yards right out of the box. 40 rounds without a hiccup as well.

I am amazed at how smooth the gun is. To me it kicks far less than an FAL or a G3 which I had in the past.

If someone can tell me how to post pics here I will post one.



I have the same YHM (the DPMS factory rail) quad rails on my 18." I actually hate them. I really really want to replace it with the SWS rail the fits over the gas block. However, for $400 I am 1/3 of the way to a nice bolt rifle.

SWS Rail for DPMS 308

Unfortunately, I know of no rail that has full rail slots and fits over the gigantic gas block. Also the fact that I have the raised rail on the receiver make things more difficult, but I’ll stop complaining. I hope you enjoy your rifle, I think I’ll get one when I finish my degree.



that rail is not for the AP4. The AP4 has a std height A4 flat top, that rail is for the other DPMS 308's that have the raised flat top...
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 12:09:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:

Originally Posted By Ardenner:

Originally Posted By Martens:
I received my AP4 with quad rails today alongwith my tan ergo grip, rail covers, and tan buttstock. Everything went together nicely and I love the way it looks.

I slapped the backup sight on and went to the range. I did not have time to zero, but I could hit steel at 100 yards right out of the box. 40 rounds without a hiccup as well.

I am amazed at how smooth the gun is. To me it kicks far less than an FAL or a G3 which I had in the past.

If someone can tell me how to post pics here I will post one.



I have the same YHM (the DPMS factory rail) quad rails on my 18." I actually hate them. I really really want to replace it with the SWS rail the fits over the gas block. However, for $400 I am 1/3 of the way to a nice bolt rifle.

SWS Rail for DPMS 308

Unfortunately, I know of no rail that has full rail slots and fits over the gigantic gas block. Also the fact that I have the raised rail on the receiver make things more difficult, but I’ll stop complaining. I hope you enjoy your rifle, I think I’ll get one when I finish my degree.



that rail is not for the AP4. The AP4 has a std height A4 flat top, that rail is for the other DPMS 308's that have the raised flat top...



SWS makes this rail in both configurations. Also, the SWS rail for Ar10 will work on the AP4.
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 1:06:37 PM EDT
no shit.... didn't know that... wow thats cool.
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 4:34:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
no shit.... didn't know that... wow thats cool.



The AR10 rail will also work on the raised receiver DPMS, but obviously the rails won't match up. sniperx is the guy to talk to. He will do free installation if you pay shipping.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 1:17:02 PM EDT
AP4 308 question to you owners.

Is the barrel profile under the handguards heavy or thin like a gov't M4 profile barrel? Also, what is the length of the flash hider it comes with from DPMS?

WIl be ordering one this week and want to shave the barrel thinner (if possible) and cut barrel/perm install the flash hider.

Thanks for any info.

Link Posted: 1/31/2006 9:06:40 AM EDT
The flash hider adds three inches to the overall length. This is the only thing that I have not been pleased with. I cut the FH down leaving only the solid portion to protect the threads. The rifle is much more handy now.

I have thought about cutting my barrel and permanently mounting a FH as well. If I were to do it I would use the Phantom FH made by Yankee Hill. It is smaller leaving me more rifled barrel and I think it looks better.

Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 3:23:49 PM EDT
Flash supressor is way too long and heavy, I replaced mine with a Vortex FH, much better.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 5:18:53 PM EDT
Yes, thats the info I was looking for.

Ordered an AP4 today w/quad rail and DPMS rear sight. Will be reprofiling and cutting barrel immediately. Not worried about the slight loss of fps. For its intended role, all I plan to be concerned about is out to 200-300 yards...MAX. Next to order another EoTech...love those things!

Cheers!
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:36:03 PM EDT
Be sure to post pics after you get the barrel shortened and the muzzle attachment mounted.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 3:03:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Martens:
Be sure to post pics after you get the barrel shortened and the muzzle attachment mounted.



Will do.

Another question/observation to AP4 owners....got mine today. LOVE AT FIRST FONDLE! (OK, maybe that didn't come out right...but my fellow black rifle disease buddies can understand my intent!)

My flash hider has the sharp "prongs" like the Yankee Hill hider. Also it is the same length as the "phantom" style flash hiders on my 223s.....maybe they changed their supplier....

Also, the barrel profile under the handguards is thick/heavy, but MUCH thinner than my LR308 bull barrel. Don't think there is much weight to loose there....1/2 pound, maybe? Prob less.

As far as cutting the barrel down, half of the the DPMS CAL .308 1-10 lettering on the bottom of the barrel would be cut off if I have the barrel cut down. Don't think I'll be cutting barrel....I did this on my Colt and regret "damaging" the barrel/lettering for value sake. Should have purchased a different barrel to cut down...

ANyway, I'll post pix when I get it set up (vert grip, rail covers, EoTech, MIAD grip, etc.....)

Now I gotta go do some damage to the ole credit card!
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 3:20:22 PM EDT
sorry for the huge size, but this is the only pic I have of the vortex on my AP4 .308

Link Posted: 2/1/2006 3:23:46 PM EDT
Virginia arms had one and I had the chance to fondle it, what a sweet rifle and I am planning on one.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 3:32:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By long-rifle-tactical:
Virginia arms had one and I had the chance to fondle it, what a sweet rifle and I am planning on one.



really? wow. To hear that coming from you, I'm gonna consider one myself now.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 6:37:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:

Originally Posted By long-rifle-tactical:
Virginia arms had one and I had the chance to fondle it, what a sweet rifle and I am planning on one.



really? wow. To hear that coming from you, I'm gonna consider one myself now.



Do so.....if you love AR-15s, you're gonna absolutely fall in LUST with the CAR10!!
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 12:46:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:

Originally Posted By long-rifle-tactical:
Virginia arms had one and I had the chance to fondle it, what a sweet rifle and I am planning on one.



really? wow. To hear that coming from you, I'm gonna consider one myself now.



I liked it, and it felt all so sweet to handle.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 5:02:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By long-rifle-tactical:

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:

Originally Posted By long-rifle-tactical:
Virginia arms had one and I had the chance to fondle it, what a sweet rifle and I am planning on one.



really? wow. To hear that coming from you, I'm gonna consider one myself now.



I liked it, and it felt all so sweet to handle.



a while ago I was faced with the 'what 308' decision, and i got two saiga's - 16 and 22 - and am having them converted by AK-USA. I highly respect your opinion and now I'm thinking of abandoning both or maybe just hte shorter one for the DPMS..... I'm going to VA arms today and will fondle it for a while. IF you buy it, you might want to wipe it off first after I'm done with it.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 7:38:22 AM EDT
Glad to hear you are happy with your new rifle. It is outstanding that they changed the FH. I have a Phantom on order for my Birthday.

I'll warn you ahead of time that it will take some rounds to break in the mags and gun. Mine was so tight that it took about 400 rounds. Now it is smooth as can be. Really lubing the locking lugs before a lot of firing helped a lot as well. Now it feeds everything and is still a tack driver.

The mags are still real tight. They work great with 18 rounds (which is how I load them to be safe). They work well with 19 but I have to struggle to load 20 and then the top round is tight that it does not realiable chamber by pressing the bolt release.

I knew these things going in so it was not a problem. Overall great product and I reach for it as often as my .223.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 7:54:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Martens:
Glad to hear you are happy with your new rifle. It is outstanding that they changed the FH. I have a Phantom on order for my Birthday.

I'll warn you ahead of time that it will take some rounds to break in the mags and gun. Mine was so tight that it took about 400 rounds. Now it is smooth as can be. Really lubing the locking lugs before a lot of firing helped a lot as well. Now it feeds everything and is still a tack driver.

The mags are still real tight. They work great with 18 rounds (which is how I load them to be safe). They work well with 19 but I have to struggle to load 20 and then the top round is tight that it does not realiable chamber by pressing the bolt release.

I knew these things going in so it was not a problem. Overall great product and I reach for it as often as my .223.



Good info, thanks.

Posted a couple pix of my AP4..thus far anyway.....MIAD grip and Magpul XT rail covers coming...also an EoTech when the wallet recovers!



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