AR Sponsor
Posted: 10/2/2016 12:01:31 AM EDT
|
Ok, this might be a controversial topic. So, my experience is only with the quad rails but looking to get something slimmer. I was leaning towards keymod rails but I'm finding a lot of hate towards keymod but with no real explanation. Tried doing a search to see if there was a thread comparing the two but no joy. Asking for opinions and rationale as to the two types since I'm a bit of a novice in these two patterns. Any input pro and con is much appreciated.
Thanks, |
|
I have both. My first was a Noveske NSR in keymod which I had before MLOK was a thing. It's great.
Since then I have 2 ALG's and 2 Geissele's in MLOK. I don't see myself purchasing another Keymod rail, but keymod has generally worked fine for me. Overall I thing manufacturers are pushing more into MLOK, and is the directing I'd take. |
|
Quoted:
I own all three, picatinny, keymod and MLOK. ZFG as to what the current "best" is. Be ready for a shitshow in your thread though...this question always brings out the crazy. Yeah, I figured this would probably be a touchy topic. I'm just trying to make an informed decision before I make a purchase. |
|
Like someone else said already, get what you like. Quad, keymod, or mlok they all get the job done when you get quality components.
I have a Bushmaster with the MOE (my first rifle), and a Bravo Company BCM4 with the KMR-A. Neither attachment system is better than the other. Yes the MOE system is not mlok, you are literally talking a simple change from requiring the accessory nut tightened on the inside of the handguard to the outside. But MOE/MLOK and KM do the exact same thing, in dang near the exact same way. Mlok uses a nut to hold on the accessory to the rail with "tabs" that prevent movement front/rear and side/side. KM uses a nut that goes into a grove that prevents travel front/side/side as well as holds it on the rail, and then either a screw or tab to prevent rearward travel (depends on accessory - my fore-grip has tabs built in to prevent movement yet my scout mount requires a screw due to the modularity of the mount). |
| I have both and like them but it would be nice if I could swap front grips, light-mounts, etc. directly. Looks don't matter to me, I look for function. "Warehouse shelving" doesn't bother me because it works. I just wish Magpul made KM stuff because they are a big part of the market. |
|
Quoted:
What make you think that M-Lok will win out? Quoted:
Quoted:
There is plenty of support and options for both at the moment, and probably will be for the next several years. But I predict MLOK wins out in the end, and Keymod goes the way of HD DVD. What make you think that M-Lok will win out? Backing of one of the biggest companies in the industry, it's easier to machine/manufacture, it also seems to "look" more appealing to most people (I know, very subjective). A lot of companies have already picked up MLOK and some have even ditched Keymod altogether (Geissele comes to mind, here). |
|
Quoted:
Why is M-Lok better? Quoted:
Quoted:
I see these threads like once every 2 weeks.. Get M-LOK. It's better. Why is M-Lok better? Essentially, MLOK is a lot harder to fuckup the install. There have been more than a few threads here with people who have fucked up Keymod slots by not getting their Keymod accessory fully seated before tightening it down. It's pretty much impossible to do that with MLOK. Of course, this can be avoided by paying close attention when installing accessories, but sometimes shit happens. I personally started off with Keymod before MLOK was even a thing (had a Noveske NSR). I've also owned a few BCM KMRs. I now only own MLOK rails (Geissele MLOK rails x4). I just feel it looks better and install seems easier. It's a little bit more secure as well, IMO. |
|
Quoted:
I have both and like them but it would be nice if I could swap front grips, light-mounts, etc. directly. Looks don't matter to me, I look for function. "Warehouse shelving" doesn't bother me because it works. I just wish Magpul made KM stuff because they are a big part of the market. Ain't gonna happen. Why would they when they invented the only direct competitor to Keymod? I do wish BCM would manufacture an MLOK KMR, though. |
|
Quoted:
RJeff21, thanks for your input. This is the kind of info I was looking for. Was leaning towards the BCM KMR but if someone could recommend a lightweight M-Lok rail that would be much appreciated. There are tons of lightweight options out there for MLOK. If you're looking for something with a similar "profile" and size, something like an ALG EMR should fit the bill (I think it may be an ounce or two heavier). If you want the absolute lightest, I think the 2A Armament rails hold the crown there. I personally prefer the Geissele Mk4 and Mk8 as the bolt up/mounting system is essentially bulletproof and stupid easy to install. There really are an abundance of options when it comes to the question you're asking. |
|
Knight's and Geissele both switched from Keymod to M-Lok.
Colt is going M-Lok and Colt Canada (Deimaco) seems to be going M-Lok for the Canadian MOD. Rumor has it they tested both and found M-Lok to be the better design. They guy that invented Keymod at Vltor now works for BCM. So I expect both of those will stay Keymod until a true winner emerges. I predict the winner will be M-Lok though, not because of the rumors of military testing, but because it was designed to be cheaper to manufacture and genuinely works better with composite handguards like plastics and carbon fiber. Not to mention it enables things like the Kinect fast attach mounts which don't really work with Keymod. I currently own Keymod, not M-Lok. But my next purchase will probably be M-Lok. Also looking at the massive scale of OEM components sold with M-Lok (i.e. Magpul edition rifles) will give them a giant edge in the debate. |
|
I think the looks issue is superficial. Who cares if it's phallic or looks like shelving. I just want it to work and have available accessories.
The main issue is direct mount accessories. If you're just going to bolt a picatinny rail section on, use either system, it's the same difference. If you want direct attach accessories, then you need to compare what's available for each mount. If you're going to have plastic Magpul hand guards on some rifles, and want to switch accessories between rifles, then it makes sense to have all M-lok. If you want to direct attach Magpul AFG or other grips, M-lok makes more sense. I checked and found way more direct attach lights and other accessories for keymod than for M-lok, so I've stuck with Keymod. You can find other non-Magpul AFG and grips that are Keymod, as well. The other issue is future proofing. M-lok is apparently outselling Keymod by a lot (that might be because the MOE handguards are so popular). This would make it seem like accessories for M-lok would be more plentiful, but this doesn't seem to be the case, in fact the opposite. I would buy for what accessories you need now, instead of trying to guess what will be available in the future. In terms of attachment, both can be a little finicky to install. Keymod you need to install facing the right direction and it's important the device has a block in the rear so that it doesn't back itself out. M-lok has some QD stuff available. There's an interesting design of a Keymod quick detach flashlight (from NCstar of all people): 
Basically you slide the piece in and turn the thumb wheel, which screws a block in place to prevent it from sliding backwards and out of the Keymod slot. This would be hard to implement in the M-lok design but it makes for a very easy to implement design in Keymod. Hopefully we'll see more inexpensive, QD, direct attach accessories like this for Keymod. |
|
Quoted:
Why is M-Lok better? Quoted:
Quoted:
I see these threads like once every 2 weeks.. Get M-LOK. It's better. Why is M-Lok better? 
Past experience and design. I've had Keymod loosen up on my under shooting. Yes, I had a good rail, good attachment, blue loctite and good torque. This was with 2 different rail mfg's. I've seen many other people on the range, ARFCOM and YouTube that have had the same issues. You can just see by the design that M-LOK is better. With all the edges and corners it braces on, the perpendicular T-nuts, More surface area on the sides touching the rails, you can mount between slots. Its's easier and cheaper to machine. My saying is: It's easy to mess up Keymod. It's hard to mess up M-LOK. |
| Sorry for the hijack but this thread comes at a good time for me.... It's all about me, right? Great points made here. Let's say a decision was made to go with the M Lok.... Who, in your opinion, makes the best looking M Lok rail down into SBR sizes? 5" or 7" give or take an inch? |
|
Quoted:
I was leaning towards keymod rails but I'm finding a lot of hate towards keymod but with no real explanation. For Keymod, you need to pay attention while installing stuff. You also need a torque wrench, and blue loctite is also a good idea. If you do it wrong, you will either screw up the rail or have things fall off. The main attraction for Keymod are the rail systems made for it and the low profile and light weight of the accessories. M-lok is almost impossible to screw up, but the parts tend to be heavier, you have fewer mounting options, etc. Both systems will work perfectly fine. Base your decision on what systems you already own (in this case none) and on what size/weight/profile/features you want in a rail. All my stuff is Keymod because I went with the NSR and later the KMR. |
|
Quoted:
For Keymod, you need to pay attention while installing stuff. You also need a torque wrench, and blue loctite is also a good idea. If you do it wrong, you will either screw up the rail or have things fall off. The main attraction for Keymod are the rail systems made for it and the low profile and light weight of the accessories. M-lok is almost impossible to screw up, but the parts tend to be heavier, you have fewer mounting options, etc. Both systems will work perfectly fine. Base your decision on what systems you already own (in this case none) and on what size/weight/profile/features you want in a rail. All my stuff is Keymod because I went with the NSR and later the KMR. Quoted:
Quoted:
I was leaning towards keymod rails but I'm finding a lot of hate towards keymod but with no real explanation. For Keymod, you need to pay attention while installing stuff. You also need a torque wrench, and blue loctite is also a good idea. If you do it wrong, you will either screw up the rail or have things fall off. The main attraction for Keymod are the rail systems made for it and the low profile and light weight of the accessories. M-lok is almost impossible to screw up, but the parts tend to be heavier, you have fewer mounting options, etc. Both systems will work perfectly fine. Base your decision on what systems you already own (in this case none) and on what size/weight/profile/features you want in a rail. All my stuff is Keymod because I went with the NSR and later the KMR. Actually, if you compare two equal rails from the same product line from the same manufacturer that are available in both keymod and m-lok you will see that the m-lok one is almost always slightly lighter. My assumption is that this is simply because the holes are bigger. |
|
I feel like the only person who uses Keymod that doesn't have his shit randomly fall off during shootung. F me right??
I have not experienced a single failure with Keymod. Here are where some Keymod rails/accesories fail: -Keyholes cut without secondary anchor grove cut inside the rail. This is cheap manufacturing and prevents certain accessories with proper anchor design from working how they are intended. -Accessories with anchors that are not to spec. Accesory will not contact the rail correctly and will naturally fail to secure in a way that prevents loosening later on. Yes, buying properly made Keymod stuff is expensive, but it works if you know how to use it. |
|
Guess I am in the same boat as you. I have never had a keymod accessory come lose or have I ever messed up a rail installing a keymod accessory. I have four different BCM Keymod rails that have been used extensively and not babied - guess what, no issues. I am not going to say one is better than the other as they both work.
OP, get what appeals to you as they both work. If you go keymod just make sure you get accessories with proper anchor designs from a reputable company. Quoted:
I feel like the only person who uses Keymod that doesn't have his shit randomly fall off during shootung. F me right?? I have not experienced a single failure with Keymod. Here are where some Keymod rails/accesories fail: -Keyholes cut without secondary anchor grove cut inside the rail. This is cheap manufacturing and prevents certain accessories with proper anchor design from working how they are intended. -Accessories with anchors that are not to spec. Accesory will not contact the rail correctly and will naturally fail to secure in a way that prevents loosening later on. Yes, buying properly made Keymod stuff is expensive, but it works if you know how to use it. |
|
Just finished a new build with 16" barrel and 13" Geissele MK8 rail. Was a little skeptical at first, but after playing around with the M-Lok, I love it. Very simple and sturdy concept. And just about every accessory mount available through Magpul.
KeyMod just reminds me of cock and balls. 
|
|
Quoted:
I feel like the only person who uses Keymod that doesn't have his shit randomly fall off during shootung. F me right?? I have not experienced a single failure with Keymod. Here are where some Keymod rails/accesories fail: -Keyholes cut without secondary anchor grove cut inside the rail. This is cheap manufacturing and prevents certain accessories with proper anchor design from working how they are intended. -Accessories with anchors that are not to spec. Accesory will not contact the rail correctly and will naturally fail to secure in a way that prevents loosening later on. Yes, buying properly made Keymod stuff is expensive, but it works if you know how to use it. Pretty much sums up my thoughts on the subject. I have a KMR rail and a keymod MPX, and have accessories mounted to both of them. I have a bravo stubby grip and scout mount on the KMR, and a scout mount and the factory keymod handstop thingy on the MPX. I didn't have any trouble properly installing any of those items, and have never had any of them to come loose or back out on me either. FWIW I have never had a MLOK rail, so I don't have anything to compare it to. Just seems like everybody hates on keymod, but it has worked well for me and I don't plan on giving up any of the accessories or mounts that I already have. That being said, I may try a MLOK system in the future as the Geissele units look nice and I like the color of them. |
|
Quoted:
I think that part of Keymod's biggest hurdle was that the BCM KMR was one of the flagship products it was introduced on, and frankly, the rail is weak and has issues other than KM, but which make KM an even worse way of attaching things to it. You want to clarify that? All "issues" I have heard about with the KMR was paint chipping. I have yet to hear an issue with the KMR-A version. |
|
Quoted:
You want to clarify that? All "issues" I have heard about with the KMR was paint chipping. I have yet to hear an issue with the KMR-A version. Quoted:
Quoted:
I think that part of Keymod's biggest hurdle was that the BCM KMR was one of the flagship products it was introduced on, and frankly, the rail is weak and has issues other than KM, but which make KM an even worse way of attaching things to it. You want to clarify that? All "issues" I have heard about with the KMR was paint chipping. I have yet to hear an issue with the KMR-A version. I have seen so many pictures of bent and broken KMR rails I should start an album. The KMR a seems much less affected. The KMR is very thin and made of weaker alloy. The perfect storm. Since I know you will ask, here is one picture for you: 
|
|
Quoted:
I have seen so many pictures of bent and broken KMR rails I should start an album. The KMR a seems much less affected. The KMR is very thin and made of weaker alloy. The perfect storm. Since I know you will ask, here is one picture for you: http://i67.tinypic.com/2e3y41v.png Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think that part of Keymod's biggest hurdle was that the BCM KMR was one of the flagship products it was introduced on, and frankly, the rail is weak and has issues other than KM, but which make KM an even worse way of attaching things to it. You want to clarify that? All "issues" I have heard about with the KMR was paint chipping. I have yet to hear an issue with the KMR-A version. I have seen so many pictures of bent and broken KMR rails I should start an album. The KMR a seems much less affected. The KMR is very thin and made of weaker alloy. The perfect storm. Since I know you will ask, here is one picture for you: http://i67.tinypic.com/2e3y41v.png Bent and broken? This debate comes up every other day it seems like...at the end of the day, KeyMod and mlok both work. Buy from a reputable manufacturer and you will be fine. FWIW, I run a kmr-a on my duty rig and have never had issues with it. Each platform will hold a WML or vfg without issue, which is more than likely all that most end users will be attaching. |
|
Quoted:
I think that part of Keymod's biggest hurdle was that the BCM KMR was one of the flagship products it was introduced on, and frankly, the rail is weak and has issues other than KM, but which make KM an even worse way of attaching things to it. Wasn't the Noveske NSR the premier Keymod rail? |
|
Quoted:
Wasn't the Noveske NSR the premier Keymod rail? Quoted:
Quoted:
I think that part of Keymod's biggest hurdle was that the BCM KMR was one of the flagship products it was introduced on, and frankly, the rail is weak and has issues other than KM, but which make KM an even worse way of attaching things to it. Wasn't the Noveske NSR the premier Keymod rail? It was, but that was also Eric's brainchild. |
AR Sponsor