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Posted: 3/23/2014 11:21:32 AM EDT
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Im looking to build this AR without needing to upgrade parts later. It will be a CQB defense rifle at 5.56 with a 14.5 barrel and BCM BCG. Light weight, reliable and easy to handle so that the wife and kids can use if needed. Using a CTR stock.
a standard buffer and spring funtion just fine but i know there is room for improvement. Any recomendations on a better set that might improve my rifle build? Absolutely cannot be any less reliable then a standard issue set. Thanks in advance. |
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I have a 14.5 midi and I am able to run an H2 reliably will all ammo. But that was after an extensive break in period with 855. You should at least run an H buffer. I just don't understand why anyone would want to run a carbine buffer in anything. Because some weapon systems run BEST on a carbine buffer. I don't understand why so many people don't understand that heavier does not always mean better. It depends on the gas porting of the barrel, barrel length, and gas system length. ALL my carbines have a standard carbine buffer. This is because they are all 16" midlengths, and while they would all function fine with an H buffer, there is absolutely zero reason to spend money to do so. |
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Im looking to build this AR without needing to upgrade parts later. It will be a CQB defense rifle at 5.56 with a 14.5 barrel and BCM BCG. Light weight, reliable and easy to handle so that the wife and kids can use if needed. Using a CTR stock. a standard buffer and spring funtion just fine but i know there is room for improvement. Any recomendations on a better set that might improve my rifle build? Absolutely cannot be any less reliable then a standard issue set. Thanks in advance. If the gas system is mid I'd stick with standard carbine weight. If the gas system is carbine I'd consider using an H buffer to slow unlocking and ease extraction. If you feel you have issues with an H buffer in your specific configuration, then move to H2. |
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It isn't that the carbine buffer doesn't work. Going heavy as you can leads to smoother shooting, less wear and tear, slower unlocking (which equals better extraction). Smoother shooting equals shorter split times, ie increased performance. Heavier reciprocating mass is not always smoother. It is just often smoother on short gas systems with significant overgassing. |
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Heavier reciprocating mass is not always smoother. It is just often smoother on short gas systems with significant overgassing. Quoted:
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It isn't that the carbine buffer doesn't work. Going heavy as you can leads to smoother shooting, less wear and tear, slower unlocking (which equals better extraction). Smoother shooting equals shorter split times, ie increased performance. Heavier reciprocating mass is not always smoother. It is just often smoother on short gas systems with significant overgassing. Not trying to be a dick. But when itsn't heavier smoother? Slowing down the reciprocating mass means faster follow up shots (or so says my split times). The question is how much can you slow it down and still be reliable. |
| this may be another determining factor. i will at least for a short time install a S3G trigger in this. this trigger can be fired at full auto speeds if your finger is fast enough. i dont need it that fast and dont think my family using it needs it that fast, but id rather not limit my trigger. if i dont care for the trigger in this rifle, ill swap it out with a normal pull trigger. |
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this may be another determining factor. i will at least for a short time install a S3G trigger in this. this trigger can be fired at full auto speeds if your finger is fast enough. i dont need it that fast and dont think my family using it needs it that fast, but id rather not limit my trigger. if i dont care for the trigger in this rifle, ill swap it out with a normal pull trigger. No, that is irrelevant. Some FAST splits are .15 shot to shot. That is only 400 rounds per minute. Even if you could get into the .12's.... you aint gonna outrun the gun, just because you put a nice single stage trigger in there. |
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Not trying to be a dick. But when itsn't heavier smoother? Slowing down the reciprocating mass means faster follow up shots (or so says my split times). The question is how much can you slow it down and still be reliable. Quoted:
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It isn't that the carbine buffer doesn't work. Going heavy as you can leads to smoother shooting, less wear and tear, slower unlocking (which equals better extraction). Smoother shooting equals shorter split times, ie increased performance. Heavier reciprocating mass is not always smoother. It is just often smoother on short gas systems with significant overgassing. Not trying to be a dick. But when itsn't heavier smoother? Slowing down the reciprocating mass means faster follow up shots (or so says my split times). The question is how much can you slow it down and still be reliable. I was pretty clear above. Slowing down reciprocating mass has NOTHING to do with split times. Removing felt recoil from the rifle helps increase splits since the rifle isn't moving as much. Lowering reciprocating mass can reduce felt recoil, especially when adjusting gas at the port. Look at any competition gun, we lower reciprocating mass, increase spring rate, and control gas at the port. Slowing it down is a good thing to aid in more reliable extraction on short gas systems, and slows cyclic rate which is good for full auto. However, when more mass slams into the end of the receiver extension in a significantly overgassed system, it can increase perceived recoil. Split times have to do with you pulling the trigger. Your ability to keep them on target without having to require the sight is improved by weapon movement reduction. Of which there are many ways to try and accomplish this. |
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I was pretty clear above. Slowing down reciprocating mass has NOTHING to do with split times. Removing felt recoil from the rifle helps increase splits since the rifle isn't moving as much. Lowering reciprocating mass can reduce felt recoil, especially when adjusting gas at the port. Look at any competition gun, we lower reciprocating mass, increase spring rate, and control gas at the port. Slowing it down is a good thing to aid in more reliable extraction on short gas systems, and slows cyclic rate which is good for full auto. However, when more mass slams into the end of the receiver extension in a significantly overgassed system, it can increase perceived recoil. Split times have to do with you pulling the trigger. Your ability to keep them on target without having to require the sight is improved by weapon movement reduction. Of which there are many ways to try and accomplish this. Quoted:
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It isn't that the carbine buffer doesn't work. Going heavy as you can leads to smoother shooting, less wear and tear, slower unlocking (which equals better extraction). Smoother shooting equals shorter split times, ie increased performance. Heavier reciprocating mass is not always smoother. It is just often smoother on short gas systems with significant overgassing. Not trying to be a dick. But when itsn't heavier smoother? Slowing down the reciprocating mass means faster follow up shots (or so says my split times). The question is how much can you slow it down and still be reliable. I was pretty clear above. Slowing down reciprocating mass has NOTHING to do with split times. Removing felt recoil from the rifle helps increase splits since the rifle isn't moving as much. Lowering reciprocating mass can reduce felt recoil, especially when adjusting gas at the port. Look at any competition gun, we lower reciprocating mass, increase spring rate, and control gas at the port. Slowing it down is a good thing to aid in more reliable extraction on short gas systems, and slows cyclic rate which is good for full auto. However, when more mass slams into the end of the receiver extension in a significantly overgassed system, it can increase perceived recoil. Split times have to do with you pulling the trigger. Your ability to keep them on target without having to require the sight is improved by weapon movement reduction. Of which there are many ways to try and accomplish this. ^ This guy. You're talking about trying to turn a home defense gun into a race gun. You can have one or the other or something in the middle. If my life depends on it....I'm running what the gun was designed for. The heavier buffer may help in some aspects but the downfall is reliability across(ammo wise) the board may suffer. Whereas the standard buffer will yield you almost 100% reliability, assuming the rifle is taken care of properly. So, do you want reliability or do you want speed? |
| Where they will run, the heavier buffers are more reliable. More mass helps with chambering when dirty or stubborn rounds that may have caused a stoppage. The socom guns run h2 buffers and I knew a guy who ran his mk18 8000 rounds without cleaning (just Occaisionally oil injection) and his gun was running reliably. |
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Yeah my S3G trigger will most likely be temporary in this rifle.
As for buffer weight, heavier would aid in a few things from what ive read beforw and here. But the standard buffer has NEVER failed me. Maybe i was just lucky with my weapons as others werent. I dont see the point in spending money on something not needed. But i know when i fire an AR or m16 or m4, i can tell the parts could be improved. Especially with noise and smoothness. I dont believe ive ever fired a rifle with an upgraded set. But like i stated before i dont want to sacrifice any reliability for an upgrade. In my 18 years firing these rifles, ive never had a missfire, a jam, or ejection failure on my rifles or any other i may have been issued or used. I like it that way. This rifle in particular will eventually be one that i train my family on, all the way down to my ten year old. So reliability is a must. If i were to go with something other then an average set at any weight, whos would you reccomend me try? If any? |
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In my 18 years firing these rifles, ive never had a missfire, a jam, or ejection failure on my rifles or any other i may have been issued or used. There is no way you shoot any significant volume. I have not had a large amount of failures for the volume I have shot, but I have certainly seen mag related failures, short strokes, stuck cases, blown out primers, light primer strikes, a couple case failures, and a dead primer. I don't see how you cannot experience any of those in 18 years? |
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I am sorry to have brought this thread off of course. One last post.
To your original question of is there anything better than a standard buffer and spring, I maintain the A5 is a better option. Watch some youtube video reviews, or read some reviews. I think you will be hard pressed to find any one who doesn't think it is better. It is the closest thing to an a2 fixed stock system which I doubt anyone would disagree with being the most reliable set up.Certainly there is going to be those who don't think the performance advantage is worth the added cost. It might add 30 bucks or so over a good milspec receiver extension and an H buffer. Only you can be the judge of that. Quoted:
^ This guy. You're talking about trying to turn a home defense gun into a race gun. You can have one or the other or something in the middle. If my life depends on it....I'm running what the gun was designed for. The heavier buffer may help in some aspects but the downfall is reliability across(ammo wise) the board may suffer. Whereas the standard buffer will yield you almost 100% reliability, assuming the rifle is taken care of properly. So, do you want reliability or do you want speed? Your talking about flexibility - not reliability. The slower it goes, the more reliable the extraction, the easier it is on the parts, etc. A carbine buffer is not what it the gun was designed for. In fact an h2 buffer in a carbine length gas system with a colt size gas port gives you the closest to the cyclic rate of a original 20 inch rifle with a rifle buffer. New M4's are shipped with H2 buffers to the military, and 6920's are shipped with H buffers as civilians use a wider variety of ammo. In regards to recoil. I admit there is more than one way to skin a cat. Going with a light weight system, the right action spring, adjustable gas block, etc. Basically the JP system can be very good. The difficulty with that system is for it to be working really good, it is basically on the edge of failure. Straddling a very thin line. I have read some competitors that even have to tune their system based on the time of year because of different average temperatures. Felt recoil is a dynamic issue. There are a ton of factors and it is hard to eliminate individual factors and make a blanket rule because people and their shooting styles very. It is also not just one motion. You have the initial recoil of the firing of the cartridge, then you have the recoil of the the carrier/buffer bottoming out and finally of the bolt slamming home on a new round. My grip, stance, shooting style et cetera are all factors not only in how I perceive recoil and how that changes my split times. I have fired the same rifle in the same day for time with both carbine, H, and H2 buffers. My split times are better with the the heavier buffer. Felt recoil is about how it works with you and your shooting stance, grip etc. It is about perception. I am not the only one. One only needs to google things like benefits of a heavy buffer etc. A heavier weight spreads the recoil out over a longer period of time. IIt helps me stay on target and get faster split times which is an added benefit to the increased reliability. But once again - felt recoil is about perception. Your shooting stance etc may mean that a lighter buffer may lead to better split times for you. I think you will find yourself in the minority though. |
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There is no way you shoot any significant volume. I have not had a large amount of failures for the volume I have shot, but I have certainly seen mag related failures, short strokes, stuck cases, blown out primers, light primer strikes, a couple case failures, and a dead primer. I don't see how you cannot experience any of those in 18 years? Quoted:
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In my 18 years firing these rifles, ive never had a missfire, a jam, or ejection failure on my rifles or any other i may have been issued or used. There is no way you shoot any significant volume. I have not had a large amount of failures for the volume I have shot, but I have certainly seen mag related failures, short strokes, stuck cases, blown out primers, light primer strikes, a couple case failures, and a dead primer. I don't see how you cannot experience any of those in 18 years? Well if a guy is asking about upgrading his buffer, he probably hasnt put 20k rounds down range. I might be close to half way there. I find it hard to believe ive been that lucky myself. No one ever believes me. But never even one malfuntion. once i handed a rifle i just finished firing to someone else and after their first shot it jammed. Lol. |
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