AR Sponsor
Posted: 2/23/2014 6:47:28 AM EDT
|
I have a AR15 kit that lacks only the lower receiver. I saw were ATI has "Steel Reinforced, Patent Pending, Polymer Lower Receivers" at a GREAT price. I've always used billet lower receivers so this would be new to me.
Has anyone else used one of these ATI lowers and what were the results? |
|
Quoted:
I've always used billet lower receivers Keep using billet receivers. Trust me on this. Stay away from polymer receivers. If you have to have a tupperware lower get a CavArms/GWACS lower. Those are GTG and hard to kill. The Mods need to make a sticky for all these ATI, New Frontier crappy polymer lower threads and put it in the "AR Basic" section. |
|
I'm on a TIGHT budget right now (building a new kitchen).
I haven't found an anodized billet lower for under $100. I found a couple that were "white" for $60 but the problem there is finding a local plater to do them without costing an arm and a leg. ATI has their poly lower (which is steel reinforced) for $50. As you can tell, I'm torn between them. I did a LOT of reading about the poly lowers and the majority of OPINIONS are that they work OK. One LE person said he used his poly lower rifle in his work and had to "stroke" someone with it and it didn't break (which IMHO, is amazing). TRUST ME, I had a difficult time accepting the poly handguns (Glocks, Rugers, etc.) when they first came out. BUT, let's face it, especially the Glocks are TOUGH as nails! I've watched one set of torture tests that I don't think my 1911 would survive yet the "plastic" Glock did (I still dislike the Glock's lack of a true safety though but that's me). In the end, I'm going to call ATI and ask them what their sucess rate is with the poly lower. I know that they back their products as I have a billet ATI lower that had problems with magazines not locking into the latch, sent it to them, and it came back fixed in under a week. GREAT service for a crazy problem. |
|
If money is tight, don't waste it. There are a lot of cheap, forged lowers out now.
Comparing polymer lowers and polymer pistols is apples and oranges. The only poly lowers with a good history are the Cav Arms style, and you'll note they don't duplicate the design of aluminum lowers. |
|
TRUST ME, I had a difficult time accepting the poly handguns (Glocks, Rugers, etc.) when they first came out. BUT, let's face it, especially the Glocks are TOUGH as nails! I've watched one set of torture tests that I don't think my 1911 would survive yet the "plastic" Glock did (I still dislike the Glock's lack of a true safety though but that's me). The Glock was designed from ground up as a polymer framed pistol. The SCAR was designed from ground up to have a polymer lower. Other than the Cav15 lower, most poly lowers are 1:1 copies of an alloy receiver. The weakest spot on an AR lower is near the rear takedown pin, and this is where most poly failures occur. There have some posts about poly lowers having out of spec holes (are they warping?) and require fitting with a file or dremel. With aluminum lowers selling for as low as $49 and a complete lower build kit for $79, a complete poly lower for $109 isn't saving you much. |
|
Quoted:
Echoing the above, look at PSA or Cope's Distributing--Cope's has some blems for $40. The local LGS had a "special run" of the New Frontier-they blew them out, and have had over a 50% return rate in six months for cracking. Psa is low risk since they are always cosmetic blems and carry the same warranty as a new one. Be careful when purchasing blems from some companies...some are not solely cosmetic and carry no warranties. |
|
Quoted:
I have a AR15 kit that lacks only the lower receiver. I saw were ATI has "Steel Reinforced, Patent Pending, Polymer Lower Receivers" at a GREAT price. I've always used billet lower receivers so this would be new to me. Has anyone else used one of these ATI lowers and what were the results? Found this online: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/12/19/gun-review-ati-omni-gen2-hybrid-polymer-ar15/ I just built a polymer lower, not ATI, but an EP 80%. For me, it came down to cost. Surely there are inexpensive aluminum lowers out there, but I would have to pay $35 FFL fee + $15 backgroup check. That just killed any incentive to get an inexpensive stripped lower since the cost is going to double. Local store sells Anderson lower for $95, so I am getting robbed either way. That's why I decided to go with a 80% Polymer lower. Surely it's not the best fit, and probably won't last as long as a metal one, but it's plenty for what I am looking to use it for, mainly range. |
|
Quoted:
Echoing the above, look at PSA or Cope's Distributing--Cope's has some blems for $40. The local LGS had a "special run" of the New Frontier-they blew them out, and have had over a 50% return rate in six months for cracking. This. You can get a blem aluminum for basically the same cost. If they aren't on sale or are out of stock now, give them a few weeks. Even if it costs $20-$30 more, it is worth it in the long run. Good luck trying to get your money back out of a poly lower if you decide to sell. I own some Poly lowers, but I would only buy them complete, and not build them. They are notorious for needing to be sanded, drilled or otherwise modified during the parts install, because they are out of spec and parts don't fit. I also believe the best benefit of a poly lower is the feel of the poly trigger, and weight reduction. Both benefits are reduced when using a standard parts kit. Experiences may vary, my experience is with new frontier. So far so good, but I haven't used them a lot. They have a reputation for breaking/cracking around the pins and where the buffer tube threads in (Another thing you don't have to worry about by not using polymer, stripping the polymer threads). |
|
Quoted:
IIRC, ATI's reinforced poly receiver does not use steel - it uses zinc. Zinc is an inexpensive and relatively brittle metal. Perhaps a little research before posting mis-information. Spoiler @ 0:22... http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=7zlITfVEDmU Care to volunteer your lower? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=SITSIQeKGiE The Hybrids can be found for $150 out the door in fully assebled form. Billet looks at a fraction of the cost. Is it for everyone? No, but perhaps getting off ones higher-horses and do what you want to do and leave others to make decissions that are best for them. I understand looking out for someone but at the end of the day they have to put on their big-boy-pants and make their own decission. Then they have to live with, or sell it. |
|
Quoted:
Perhaps a little research before posting mis-information. Spoiler @ 0:22... http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=7zlITfVEDmU Care to volunteer your lower? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=SITSIQeKGiE The Hybrids can be found for $150 out the door in fully assebled form. Billet looks at a fraction of the cost. Is it for everyone? No, but perhaps getting off ones higher-horses and do what you want to do and leave others to make decissions that are best for them. I understand looking out for someone but at the end of the day they have to put on their big-boy-pants and make their own decission. Then they have to live with, or sell it. Quoted:
Quoted:
IIRC, ATI's reinforced poly receiver does not use steel - it uses zinc. Zinc is an inexpensive and relatively brittle metal. Perhaps a little research before posting mis-information. Spoiler @ 0:22... http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=7zlITfVEDmU Care to volunteer your lower? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=SITSIQeKGiE The Hybrids can be found for $150 out the door in fully assebled form. Billet looks at a fraction of the cost. Is it for everyone? No, but perhaps getting off ones higher-horses and do what you want to do and leave others to make decissions that are best for them. I understand looking out for someone but at the end of the day they have to put on their big-boy-pants and make their own decission. Then they have to live with, or sell it. The only thing worse on the internet than a troll, is a snarky immature self ascribed know-it-all who likes to present their information in a manner that is the equivalent of "In Your Face - You Just Got Served" The internet, as wonderful a concept as it is, has given us the ability to civilly communicate if one chooses but also out ones immaturity and put their ignorance on full display. If you took a moment to read ATIs website, or even the description section of the video you posted, you would have seen that the talking head was wrong when he ran his lines. The video description: "Gunreports.com met up with Jamie Ramos from ATI at their booth at SHOT Show 2014. The new design is a fiberglass-composite polymer over a zinc metal insert." ATIs website will confirm the same. http://www.americantactical.us/page/hybrid.html As for Zinc's brittleness, consult the Rockwell index - but I'll leave you with this anecdotal point. Zinc is a silvery blue-grey metal with a relatively low melting point (419.5°C) and boiling point (907°C). When unalloyed, its strength and hardness is greater than that of tin or lead, but appreciably less than that of aluminium or copper. The pure metal cannot be used in stressed applications due to low creep-resistance.. ...next time perhaps it is you who should do their research before trying to serve someone a slice of your humble pie. |
Check out Tennessee Arms Co...
This is a well thought out design. I'm putting a couple through their paces and I think it has more potential than ATI. Also, US made by former service members. Jake http://www.tnarmsco.com/ |
|
Quoted:
Check out Tennessee Arms Co... http://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server4200/z1t759/products/76/images/298/BLACK_SIDE__25337.1386011439.1280.1280.JPG?c=1 This is a well thought out design. I'm putting a couple through their paces and I think it has more potential than ATI. Also, US made by former service members. Jake http://www.tnarmsco.com/ Let us know how these work out for you. How's the fit and finish on these? Tight? Loose? Any special fitting with tools required? |
|
Quoted:
Check out Tennessee Arms Co... http://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server4200/z1t759/products/76/images/298/BLACK_SIDE__25337.1386011439.1280.1280.JPG?c=1 This is a well thought out design. I'm putting a couple through their paces and I think it has more potential than ATI. Also, US made by former service members. Jake http://www.tnarmsco.com/ wow , come a long ways since the CavArms loweres. |
|
Quoted:
The only thing worse on the internet than a troll, is a snarky immature self ascribed know-it-all who likes to present their information in a manner that is the equivalent of "In Your Face - You Just Got Served" The internet, as wonderful a concept as it is, has given us the ability to civilly communicate if one chooses but also out ones immaturity and put their ignorance on full display. If you took a moment to read ATIs website, or even the description section of the video you posted, you would have seen that the talking head was wrong when he ran his lines. The video description: "Gunreports.com met up with Jamie Ramos from ATI at their booth at SHOT Show 2014. The new design is a fiberglass-composite polymer over a zinc metal insert." ATIs website will confirm the same. http://www.americantactical.us/page/hybrid.html As for Zinc's brittleness, consult the Rockwell index - but I'll leave you with this anecdotal point. Zinc is a silvery blue-grey metal with a relatively low melting point (419.5°C) and boiling point (907°C). When unalloyed, its strength and hardness is greater than that of tin or lead, but appreciably less than that of aluminium or copper. The pure metal cannot be used in stressed applications due to low creep-resistance.. ...next time perhaps it is you who should do their research before trying to serve someone a slice of your humble pie. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
IIRC, ATI's reinforced poly receiver does not use steel - it uses zinc. Zinc is an inexpensive and relatively brittle metal. Perhaps a little research before posting mis-information. Spoiler @ 0:22... http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=7zlITfVEDmU Care to volunteer your lower? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=SITSIQeKGiE The Hybrids can be found for $150 out the door in fully assebled form. Billet looks at a fraction of the cost. Is it for everyone? No, but perhaps getting off ones higher-horses and do what you want to do and leave others to make decissions that are best for them. I understand looking out for someone but at the end of the day they have to put on their big-boy-pants and make their own decission. Then they have to live with, or sell it. The only thing worse on the internet than a troll, is a snarky immature self ascribed know-it-all who likes to present their information in a manner that is the equivalent of "In Your Face - You Just Got Served" The internet, as wonderful a concept as it is, has given us the ability to civilly communicate if one chooses but also out ones immaturity and put their ignorance on full display. If you took a moment to read ATIs website, or even the description section of the video you posted, you would have seen that the talking head was wrong when he ran his lines. The video description: "Gunreports.com met up with Jamie Ramos from ATI at their booth at SHOT Show 2014. The new design is a fiberglass-composite polymer over a zinc metal insert." ATIs website will confirm the same. http://www.americantactical.us/page/hybrid.html As for Zinc's brittleness, consult the Rockwell index - but I'll leave you with this anecdotal point. Zinc is a silvery blue-grey metal with a relatively low melting point (419.5°C) and boiling point (907°C). When unalloyed, its strength and hardness is greater than that of tin or lead, but appreciably less than that of aluminium or copper. The pure metal cannot be used in stressed applications due to low creep-resistance.. ...next time perhaps it is you who should do their research before trying to serve someone a slice of your humble pie. Fair enough & my apologies. It didn't appear, however, to be to lacking in rigidity when that fork lift drove over it... nor when it was ran through a drop test. Also, I didn't see anyone as of yet say they would offer up one of their lowers to prove it's superiority though. I stand by the assertion that people get out of line in indiscriminate bashing of people's choices in what they choose to purchase. Yes, I am getting a bit tired of seeing it. People have no basis for scrutinizing the new ATI lowers unless they have personally ran them & have experienced a failure themseves. |
|
Quoted: Check out Tennessee Arms Co... http://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server4200/z1t759/products/76/images/298/BLACK_SIDE__25337.1386011439.1280.1280.JPG?c=1 This is a well thought out design. I'm putting a couple through their paces and I think it has more potential than ATI. Also, US made by former service members. Jake http://www.tnarmsco.com/ Came to post this. I met the owner/designer of these at SHOT. The brass seems like a much better material than zinc, and Tennessee Arms also has a brass insert for the grip screw; something the ATI does not offer IIRC. I plan to get one at some point to test. |
|
Quoted:
Came to post this. I met the owner/designer of these at SHOT. The brass seems like a much better material than zinc, and Tennessee Arms also has a brass insert for the grip screw; something the ATI does not offer IIRC. I plan to get one at some point to test. Quoted:
Quoted:
Check out Tennessee Arms Co... http://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server4200/z1t759/products/76/images/298/BLACK_SIDE__25337.1386011439.1280.1280.JPG?c=1 This is a well thought out design. I'm putting a couple through their paces and I think it has more potential than ATI. Also, US made by former service members. Jake http://www.tnarmsco.com/ Came to post this. I met the owner/designer of these at SHOT. The brass seems like a much better material than zinc, and Tennessee Arms also has a brass insert for the grip screw; something the ATI does not offer IIRC. I plan to get one at some point to test. I may have to get one to try also... 
|
|
Quoted:
Check out Tennessee Arms Co... http://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server4200/z1t759/products/76/images/298/BLACK_SIDE__25337.1386011439.1280.1280.JPG?c=1 This is a well thought out design. I'm putting a couple through their paces and I think it has more potential than ATI. Also, US made by former service members. Jake http://www.tnarmsco.com/ Aw man?!?! Where were you last week before I ordered a Frontier lower? Would have taken a pink one in a heart beat!!! Edit: Just watched the crush test video on the site. Am I seeing this right that the polymer walls (both mag well and FCG pocket) of the receiver are flexible? When he inserted mag after crushing the mag well, it definitely looked like he had to jam it in and pull hard to get it out. |
|
I called ATI and left a message asking about their Poly lower. They called back a couple of days later and apologized for not getting right back to me as the person who WAS in charge of the voicemail no longer worked there.
Anyway, he explained that their initial Poly lowers did have problems (what new product doesn't) BUT that they had addressed those problems. He also said that their products carry a lifetime guarantee. BUT between the time I left the message and he called, I bought a PSA blem lower = no poly lower here. I think before I bought a poly lower, I'd like to see one in action with my own eyes (not on the internet, hands on). Nothing replaces test driving a product to see what the good and bad things about it are. |
|
I got a couple New Frontier Lowers dirt cheap awhile back. These were used on 22 cal uppers and work just fine as they are. I did not replace the LPK with metal ones or anything.
I would not use it on anything more than a 22 cal. Just me As for forged lowers , there are a bunch out there and blems that are very affordable and will give peace of mind with higher calibers. All under 100 bucks. Ive seen them online for 60 bucks http://www.shop.doasales.net/AERO-PRECISION-MULTICAL-LOWER-RECEIVER-X15.htm |
|
Quoted:
I called ATI and left a message asking about their Poly lower. They called back a couple of days later and apologized for not getting right back to me as the person who WAS in charge of the voicemail no longer worked there. Anyway, he explained that their initial Poly lowers did have problems (what new product doesn't) BUT that they had addressed those problems. He also said that their products carry a lifetime guarantee. BUT between the time I left the message and he called, I bought a PSA blem lower = no poly lower here. I think before I bought a poly lower, I'd like to see one in action with my own eyes (not on the internet, hands on). Nothing replaces test driving a product to see what the good and bad things about it are. Plum Crazy's poly lowers had a lifetime guarantee. Too bad the company is no longer around to honor it. |
|
Quoted:
I'm on a TIGHT budget right now (building a new kitchen). I haven't found an anodized billet lower for under $100. I found a couple that were "white" for $60 but the problem there is finding a local plater to do them without costing an arm and a leg. ATI has their poly lower (which is steel reinforced) for $50. As you can tell, I'm torn between them. I did a LOT of reading about the poly lowers and the majority of OPINIONS are that they work OK. One LE person said he used his poly lower rifle in his work and had to "stroke" someone with it and it didn't break (which IMHO, is amazing). TRUST ME, I had a difficult time accepting the poly handguns (Glocks, Rugers, etc.) when they first came out. BUT, let's face it, especially the Glocks are TOUGH as nails! I've watched one set of torture tests that I don't think my 1911 would survive yet the "plastic" Glock did (I still dislike the Glock's lack of a true safety though but that's me). In the end, I'm going to call ATI and ask them what their sucess rate is with the poly lower. I know that they back their products as I have a billet ATI lower that had problems with magazines not locking into the latch, sent it to them, and it came back fixed in under a week. GREAT service for a crazy problem. If you're pinching pennies, then buying a cheaper lower and having it break is not going to save you money. Aluminum forged lowers are not expensive. Just buy one. |
| Hi, I'm one of the owners and also the Office Manager for Tennessee Arms. I'm glad to finally see one of our lowers on here. If you guys have any questions about our Gen IV lowers I would be happy to answer them. Also, I would like to look into getting a lower to someone at AR15.com to check out so we can be added to the "New Products" forum. |
|
Quoted:
Hi, I'm one of the owners and also the Office Manager for Tennessee Arms. I'm glad to finally see one of our lowers on here. If you guys have any questions about our Gen IV lowers I would be happy to answer them. Also, I would like to look into getting a lower to someone at AR15.com to check out so we can be added to the "New Products" forum. Difference between the Tennessee Arms and the ATI Omni Hybrid is the ATI uses a solid piece of zinc that encapsulates the buffer threads rear take down pin and grip screw. Not just some brass bushings like Tennessee Arms how is that going to keep it from cracking across the rear takedown pin? |
AR Sponsor