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Posted: 4/28/2009 10:33:20 PM EDT
| Does anyone know of (and hopefully link to) a review or related experiences of the PWS piston system? I have been looking at several options, and this one seems like a pretty good one to me. I am, of course, open to people with first hand experience. |
MY 12.5" WITH PWS WON'T QUIT:
I RAN MINE WHEN NEW THROUGH A 4-DAY PAT ROGERS CLASS HERE IN MEMPHIS. TWO DAYS SUPPRESSED AND TWO DAYS UNSUPPRESSED. NOT ONE SINGLE MALFUNCTION. SINCE THEN, I'VE RUN IT FOR SEVERAL THOUSAND ROUNDS, MOSTLY SUPPRESSED, WITH MINIMAL CLEANING. OF COURSE, IT HELPS THAT EVERY SINGLE COMPONENT IN THIS BUILD IS ROCK-SOLID TOP QUALITY: VLTOR MUR NOVESKE 14.5" N4 CUT TO 12.5" LARUE 7.0 PRI GAS BUSTER, DIAMONDBLACK COATED YOUNG MFG FULL AUTO BOLT CARRIER WITH LMT FITTED BOLT AND INTERNALS, ALL DIAMONDBLACK COATED SUREFIRE FA556AR SUPPRESSOR ANOTHER THING - IF YOU LIKE TO RUN A GUN FAST, THE RECOIL PULSE OF A PROPERLY SET UP PWS BUILD, WITH THE RIGHT SPRING AND BUFFER, IS SO INCREDIBLY SMOOTH. THE GUN BARELY MOVES, EVEN WITHOUT THE USE OF A MUZZLE BRAKE. ACCURACY - THE PWS IS COMPLETELY FREE-FLOATING, UNLIKE ALL OTHER PISTON SYSTEMS WHERE THE GAS BLOCK IS CONNECTED TO THE RECEIVER. GOOD SHOOTING, WES GRANT MSTN.BIZ |
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We build dedicated Gas Piston Uppers using the PWS Piston System. We have worked extensively with PWS and their current system, and we have successfully built and shipped over 200 GPU's during the last 6 months. In our opinion and experience, the PWS Piston System is the best one on the market. The fixed op-rod design helps to minimize bolt tilt, and it is the one piston system that we have been able to achieve consistent SUB-MOA groups when using WOA or Sabre SPR barrels. You cannot go wrong with the PWS Piston System. Here is a review of one of our GPU's using the PWS Piston System by Militarymorons.com: http://militarymorons.com/weapons/ar.uppers2.html#gpu |
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Addax built me one up and I am extremely happy. I can attest to everything MSTN said about his build. Full Auto/Semi Auto and/or Suppressed/Unsuppressed, doesn't matter as it just runs!
I haven't put as many rounds down range as I would have liked seeing how ammo prices are through the roof and don't want to waste good M193 and M855 ammo. |
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My personal favorite is the 14.5" GPU Carbine. Overall, more velocity, more accurate past 100 yards. 10.5" GPU's are excellent, but I personally like to have a little extra barrel length on my uppers. Quoted: I have a 10.5" upper from J&T and a 14.5" noveske barrel about to be mounted onto a upper. One of them is getting an Addax/PWS GPU retro. Which do you guys recommend and why? |
Your upper was a very neat project. Quoted: Addax built me one up and I am extremely happy. I can attest to everything MSTN said about his build. Full Auto/Semi Auto and/or Suppressed/Unsuppressed, doesn't matter as it just runs! I haven't put as many rounds down range as I would have liked seeing how ammo prices are through the roof and don't want to waste good M193 and M855 ammo. |
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Quoted:
Your upper was a very neat project.
Quoted:
Addax built me one up and I am extremely happy. I can attest to everything MSTN said about his build. Full Auto/Semi Auto and/or Suppressed/Unsuppressed, doesn't matter as it just runs! I haven't put as many rounds down range as I would have liked seeing how ammo prices are through the roof and don't want to waste good M193 and M855 ammo. And I absolutely appreciate the extra mile you went during the build. I have another project I am working up just for you 
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You know we love these special projects... Quoted: Quoted: Your upper was a very neat project. Quoted: Addax built me one up and I am extremely happy. I can attest to everything MSTN said about his build. Full Auto/Semi Auto and/or Suppressed/Unsuppressed, doesn't matter as it just runs! I haven't put as many rounds down range as I would have liked seeing how ammo prices are through the roof and don't want to waste good M193 and M855 ammo. And I absolutely appreciate the extra mile you went during the build. I have another project I am working up just for you |
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Thank you for the Good Word Erik. We look forward to the pics of your GPU. I normally use Federal XM193 for general shooting. It might be a little light for 1:7 twist, but shooting at 100 yard steel targets it totally does the job just fine. I just started to use SSA 77 Grain Sierra OTM for accuracy shooting. Quoted: Addax built me a 14.5 middie and it great getting everything together to post picks etc. I have some more ammo to try for accuracy and one more class. By the way Which ammo work best for you guys Chris. Erik |
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Quoted: The carrier key/op rod.. it bolts to the carrier and will come loose converting the auto/semi-auto rifle into a single shot. I have built and sold quite a few brand new Addax Gas Piston Uppers with the PWS system, and I have retrofitted many customers uppers, and I have yet to have one op-rod come off or come loose. I have documented over 25,000 rounds in 2 test mule uppers shooting both full and semi auto, and not one op-rod has come loose or come off. I have seen some of your previous posts, and you received an early conversion by PWS, and with a small number of the earlier conversions they did not stake the screws, they just used a small amount of Loctite, and that was it. Unfortunately, your screws came loose, and you had a failure. The Carrier Key has been improved by PWS, (thanks to our input, and the input of a couple of other installers), and to top this off, I not only stake the screws, but I use Ned Christensen's MOACKS tool successfully to dimple the op-rod key sides into the screws, and I use a special thread compound. Here are some pics (so that you can see that much has changed since the time of your conversion). Pic of the new style op-rod key being used since summer 08 (You can see there is a center channel/cut so that the op-rod screws can be splayed out or staked into the key):  Here is a pic of the new style op-rod key that I installed on a customers bolt carrier, and you can see the dimples on the side made by the MOACKS tool into the sides of the screws, and where the tops of the screws have been splayed into the key's cut out).   Here is a top view of one of my Side Charger GPU Prototypes, and you can see the top of the op-rod key, and see how the tops of the screws are splayed out into the channel a little, and the MOACKS tool dimples the sides of the key into the screws.  Thanks, Chris |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
The carrier key/op rod.. it bolts to the carrier and will come loose converting the auto/semi-auto rifle into a single shot. I have built and sold quite a few brand new Addax Gas PistonUppers with the PWS system, and I have retrofitted many customers uppers, and Ihave yet to have one op-rod come off or come loose. I have documented over 25,000 rounds in 2 test mule uppers shootingboth full and semi auto, and not one op-rod has come loose or come off. I have seen some of your previous posts, and you received an earlyconversion by PWS, and with a small number of the earlier conversionsthey did not stake the screws, they just used a small amount ofLoctite, and that was it. Unfortunately, your screws came loose, and you had a failure. The Carrier Key has been improved by PWS, (thanks to our input, and theinput of a couple of other installers), and to top this off, I not onlystake the screws, but I use Ned Christensen's MOACKS tool successfullyto dimple the op-rod key sides into the screws, and I use a special thread compound. Here are some pics (so that you can see that much has changed since the time of your conversion). Pic of the new style op-rod key being used since summer 08 (You can seethere is a center channel/cut so that the op-rod screws can be splayedout or staked into the key): http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/addax/IMG_0068-1.jpg Here is a pic of the new style op-rod key that I installed on acustomers bolt carrier, and you can see the dimples on the side made bythe MOACKS tool into the sides of the screws, and where the tops of thescrews have been splayed into the key's cut out). http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/addax/IMG_0059-1.jpg http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/addax/IMG_0065-1.jpg Here is a top view of one of my Side Charger GPU Prototypes, and you can see the top of the op-rod key, and see how the tops of the screws are splayed out into the channel a little, and the MOACKS tool dimples the sides of the key into the screws. http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/addax/IMG_0054-2.jpg Thanks, Chris This looks nice. My upper was a 14.7" CMMG M4A1 socom on a M16 carbine lower with a Endine buffer. I will admit that with the gas system on the closed mode and happy switch activated, it ran like a M-FN champ. Yes a MF-N champ. 100% pure awesome. The ROF was so damn slow I could hear every single shot. You could say it was the "bees knees"... It seems you have the staking done properly, and I would love to shoot that upper with the side activated charger. I could imagine that upper with a bipod attached would be real fun shooting groups on automatic. I wouldn't mind test driving one when you get some to sale. As good as I am at destroying stuff... I could give an honest testament as to how it handles automatic fire , etc etc. Chris, Do your gas block attach to the barrel via set screws or pins? The set screws on my early PWS upper were horrible. That would be area #2 of my concern. Do you have too use gas rings on the bolt? If yes......... As the rings make contact with the bolt do they wear down? Have you considered a bolt without the direct gas impingement parts, being there is no gas moving though the bolt? It seems the whole "gas chamber" in the BCG is pointless with the GP conversion.. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The carrier key/op rod.. it bolts to the carrier and will come loose converting the auto/semi-auto rifle into a single shot. I have built and sold quite a few brand new Addax Gas PistonUppers with the PWS system, and I have retrofitted many customers uppers, and Ihave yet to have one op-rod come off or come loose. I have documented over 25,000 rounds in 2 test mule uppers shootingboth full and semi auto, and not one op-rod has come loose or come off. I have seen some of your previous posts, and you received an earlyconversion by PWS, and with a small number of the earlier conversionsthey did not stake the screws, they just used a small amount ofLoctite, and that was it. Unfortunately, your screws came loose, and you had a failure. The Carrier Key has been improved by PWS, (thanks to our input, and theinput of a couple of other installers), and to top this off, I not onlystake the screws, but I use Ned Christensen's MOACKS tool successfullyto dimple the op-rod key sides into the screws, and I use a special thread compound. Here are some pics (so that you can see that much has changed since the time of your conversion). Pic of the new style op-rod key being used since summer 08 (You can seethere is a center channel/cut so that the op-rod screws can be splayedout or staked into the key): http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/addax/IMG_0068-1.jpg Here is a pic of the new style op-rod key that I installed on acustomers bolt carrier, and you can see the dimples on the side made bythe MOACKS tool into the sides of the screws, and where the tops of thescrews have been splayed into the key's cut out). http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/addax/IMG_0059-1.jpg http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/addax/IMG_0065-1.jpg Here is a top view of one of my Side Charger GPU Prototypes, and you can see the top of the op-rod key, and see how the tops of the screws are splayed out into the channel a little, and the MOACKS tool dimples the sides of the key into the screws. http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/addax/IMG_0054-2.jpg Thanks, Chris This looks nice. My upper was a 14.7" CMMG M4A1 socom on a M16 carbine lower with a Endine buffer. I will admit that with the gas system on the closed mode and happy switch activated, it ran like a M-FN champ. Yes a MF-N champ. 100% pure awesome. The ROF was so damn slow I could hear every single shot. You could say it was the "bees knees"... It seems you have the staking done properly, and I would love to shoot that upper with the side activated charger. I could imagine that upper with a bipod attached would be real fun shooting groups on automatic. I wouldn't mind test driving one when you get some to sale. As good as I am at destroying stuff... I could give an honest testament as to how it handles automatic fire , etc etc. Chris, Do your gas block attach to the barrel via set screws or pins? The set screws on my early PWS upper were horrible. That would be area #2 of my concern. Do you have too use gas rings on the bolt? If yes......... As the rings make contact with the bolt do they wear down? Have you considered a bolt without the direct gas impingement parts, being there is no gas moving though the bolt? It seems the whole "gas chamber" in the BCG is pointless with the GP conversion.. With our current Addax Gas Piston Uppers, we mount the gas block using the set screws. I took the prescribed installation process from PWS and make a couple of very small but significant changes to it (after consulting with PWS), The gas blocks I install will only come off if I drill out the set screws. I know I am the only PWS installer to install the gas blocks this way. With our new ATAC-GPU (Advanced Tactical AR Carbine Gas Piston Upper), we pin the gas block to the barrel to meet Military Spec. If you would like to know more about what we are doing, give me a call and I will be happy to discuss them with you. Thanks, Chris |
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