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Posted: 4/27/2008 7:15:27 AM EDT
| i have read with great interest about the use of 9mm buffers in 5.56/.223 carbines. the recoil is not prohibitive but i would like to reduce the muzzle rise for faster follow up shots which i think alot of people are interested in doing. in my research i have seen alot of references to buying a 9mm buffer from rock river arms. i have seen two references to the buffer that they sell. one has a solid body with no pin/screw holes with a green rubber bumper at one end. the other has two roll pins with a white bumper at one end and the other end has a pinned end/plug/top or whatever you want to call it. i called rra and they said they only sell one buffer which is the second style i referenced above. my question is which one is better or does it matter? |
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Just get the Colt version which is like the first one you described. It's a one piece unit that has weights in it so it still has the same 'recipricating effect" as the standard carbine and "H" buffers. I believe the RRA version is just a solid piece of steel? Anyway $25 for a true Colt part can't be beat. I have 2 of them and they work great... 11th item down... PK Firearms - Colt 9mm buffer $25 |
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If you want lower recoil and a quieter gun if you use a can then you should get a heavy buffer. I have used 5oz buffers and like 8+ oz buffers the best like www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=25&t=412446&page=1 OR The Hahn www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=22904&title=AR-15/CAR-15/CAV-15%20PISTOL%20CALIBER%20BUFFER |
+1. It's what I use in my 10.5 and 11.5. |
I wouldn't use the Hahn .45 buffer in a 5.56 rifle, it's longer than a normal CAR/H buffer. The Hahn is 3-11⁄16" long vs 3-1/4" for a carbine buffer. It is meant for pistol caliber rifles with shorter cartridge lengths. A 9mm buffer is the same weight as an H3 buffer which, by the way, is the same weight as a rifle buffer ~5.4oz. The 9mm is cheaper because it is made from all steel, where the H3 buffer has 3 tungsten inserts. Unless you are running full auto, the 9mm will serve every bit as well as an H3 at a lower price. Insert obligatory buffer pic from Randall at AR-15 Barrels  And Slash's Buffer chart  |
| excellent post. a picture is worth a thousand words. but the question still remains. will the one piece colt style be more effective or will the two piece style pictured above be more effective. it would be interesting to hear from someone who has tried both. i'm not a rich man and i can't afford to keep buying buffers even if they are only $25.00 which is what i paid for the two piece style from rra. |
Why is the H3 better then the 9mm buffer on a full auto gun? |
I'm sure someone with a registered FA or more technical expertise can weigh in here better than I can. From what I've read on these boards, the reciprocating weights inside the H series buffers improve reliability by seating the bolt more positively. I believe it acts like an automatic forward assist. As the carrier and bolt stop when they contact the barrel extension, the tungsten weights indide are still moving. There is a mm or 2 of travel inside the buffer. If you shake one you can hear it rattle. When the weights inside hit the end of the buffer they give the bolt an extra "shove" to fully seat it. Since a 9mm gun is blowback operated, there is no need to lock the bolt. |
The Colt 9mm buffers do the same thing. I don't know if it's one large weight or multiple smaller ones or what they are made from but you can feel them move back and forth just like you can on a standard-H3 carbine buffer. I would take it apart and look but the Colt 9mm buffers do not come apart (or I haven't figured out how if they do?). |
| maybe i should rephrase my question. the "H" buffers use internal sliding weights just like a dead blow hammer. this principle i understand. how does the 9mm buffer in the above picture work since it has no weights just rubber discs? i took mine apart and it is the same as pictured above the body is solid except for cavities on each end for obvious reasons. but how do it work? |
With yours, there is no deadblow effect. It's all about the weight of the steel body. As stated above, for a 9mm AR, there is no locking lug so there is no need for that little extra push that the Deadblow effect generates. For 9mm builds its all about adding weight to delay the system slightly from "blowing back". I know you don't want to buy another buffer but if you want a buffer with the weight of a 9mm buffer and still have the dead blow effect, you have to either get a Colt 9mm buffer or an H3. (or put a rifle ext. on and use a rifle buffer). You can more then likely sell the RRA buffer you have on the EE for close to what you paid for it. |
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As AR_556 said there are two different principles at work regarding the masses of the buffers. Delay in recoil and seating the bolt. A large static mass, i.e. a buffer sitting in position behind a closed bolt, requires more energy to move rearward. That has benefits for gas operated and blowback weapons, but is critical for blowback weapons to ensure the pressure has subsided enough prior to opening the breech. The deadblow effect is not required to seat a blowback weapon, so reciprocating weights are not needed in a blowback weapon. Costs can be saved by using a large piece of solid steel rather than adding tungsten (read expensive) weights inside an aluminum case. My guess is Colt would rather stock a single carbine buffer case and add weights as required for the different weapons. You can buy just the tungsten inserts from Slash on this board and put them into a standard CAR buffer. That way you can adjust the weight as you want and don't have to buy another buffer. That's what I did.  (Only works on a CAR buffer, not a solid steel 9mm buffer.)Add 1 weight for an H buffer, 2 for an H2 and 3 for an H3. H3 is equivalent weight of a 9mm, which is the same thing as a Colt 9mm buffer. So if running a 9mm upper run 3 weights. |
| now thats the kind of information that i am looking for. excellent response. your answers make a great deal of sense. in a way i should have known that myself. the differences between how a blowback system works versus a direct gas system. i guess i wasn't thinking. i've really gotten caught up in this black rifle thing. i have a bushmaster 16" heavy barrel carbine with the removable carry handle and i really like it alot. i've read alot of bad press about bushy but this thing is well finished, no machine marks, more accurate than me, and the upper/lower reciever fit is so tight i need a hammer and plastic punch to remove the rear take down pin. heres the weird part when i took it to the range to do the 25 meter sight in i didn't have to adjust the sights it was dead on right out of the box with rear sight dead in the middle. my first ar was a 20" heavy barrel bushy with the fixed stock and it was o.k. i traded it in on this 16incher and brother what a difference. i am extremely pleased with it. anyway thankyou for a thorough and professional response that makes perfect sense. |
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I bought the RRA 9MM buffer. It greatly reduces the recoil impulse from a 16" carbine. The gun runs real smooth and has never malfunctioned. The brass doesn't fly as far as it did with the H buffer. Couldn't tell if the RRA buffer is better or worse than a Colt or any other buffer. In my gun it works great and does what it's supposed to. ZM |
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