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Posted: 5/8/2006 11:18:59 AM EDT
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Came today from Adco. Thought I'd share some pics. This is the service trigger. Out of the box:  The contents of the two packages:  The trigger:  The hammer:  If I can borrow the camera that took these pictures, I'll post my attempt(s) to install it. That ought to be entertaining for everyone.  Here are some older installation instructions than I got with the trigger. Use them ONLY because the illustrations are better than what comes with the trigger: www.creedmoorsports.com/Geissele-Installation-Inst-Rev1.pdf And don't forget to READ Bigbore's threads. If for nothing else, he does an excellent job of identifying all the relevant parts. I wish I had: www.ar15.com/lite/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=258904 This Bigbore thread has a good discussion of the trigger mechanics from Bill Geissele: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=125&t=312308 And, oh yes, Geissele's web site: www.geissele.com/ ...and video: www.geissele.com/trigger.mpg |
faster lock time lighter final stage shorter 1st stage independent adjustments - including overtravel trigger is moved forward .25" Sit back and watch, these triggers are the best option for an AR right now, by far. |
When not in the shop, I make an effort to not wear anything indicating my interest in firearms  Also - it works great with 9mm uppers! |
Thanks for the overview...I figured there were proably 100 lurkers wondering the exact same thing, I was just first to raise my hand and say "hey teacher..."  [ETA] Bigbore, on a totally unrelated note, but something I need to know for placing an order at ADCO...do you guys have most all the White Oak small AR parts in stock? Gonna need quite a few springs, gas rings, A2 sight detents, firing pin retaining pins, etc. and was going to place an order tonight or tomorrow *if* i know pretty much everything will be in stock. Thanks, Dawg |
Bigbore, Which version of the trigger did you use? I'd be curious to note any comments on the various versions offered. I'm thinking of the LE version for my carbine, and I don't know which for my SPR clone. edit: It seems like the Service model allows for the most reasonable set-up for either function. |
I wish Bill Geissele only offered the Service Rifle trigger as its all you need. If you want heavy like the LEO - tighten the 2nd stage screw. The first stage with the Service Rifle trigger is 4lbs - which is a lot more than most any 2nd stage trigger. If you want a "match" trigger - replace the triger spring with the spring on your old trigger. Dawg180 - I have some WOA parts, but if you need a bunch of them its best to order direct from John. He'll get them to you just as quick. |
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Bigbore: I've read throught the instructions but do I really need to screw around with the settings on the stages? Can't I just "drop it in" with the factory settings? I don't want anything different. Advice? I just want to keep it as simple as possible before I start taking pictures. 
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Follow the directions for the sear engagement adjustment. Its an easy process, and you'll be glad you did when you're done. |
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Unless you buy one of the 2 stage triggers that do not have any adjustment screws, like the RRA, Armalite (I think) or LMT, then you'll need to fine tune your trigger yourself. Triggers that need fine tuning can be made much more crisp and travel free than ones that do not allow to be adjusted. My KAC 2 stage and JP single stage are two of the nicest triggers I've used. I hope to get one of these GA triggers soon! |
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I have not got back to Bill yet, but he sent us a DMR for use in the Piston Driven Urban Sniper. It got some trigger time with the Border Patrol and some other folks and as a result, the Army want us at Fort Hood for a demo of the 308. The triggers are great, and if you have a precision rifle, there is nothing close to it. |
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Step One Remove existing trigger. Not a lot in the instructions on how to do this but it is fairly straightforward. The only problem that I encountered was when I took the grip off, I forgot about the safety detent (which fell out) and the safety detent spring (which stuck in my Ergo grip). VERY good reason to work over a cloth and not a hard table/workbench. I'm very sorry about the pictures. I tried to get a better camera but...I could get more gun parts or a better camera...I picked gun stuff. [pics deleted because they were so bad ] |
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Oh well. The pictures suck and, with Mothers Day upon me, I don't have time to do this justice and I had wanted to so...I'll sum it up. 1. Taking the stock trigger out was not a big deal (see above). 2. Remember that the "GA pins" are the ones that are in the trigger and hammer -- not the "Fitting Pin" which looks like a punch. 3. I don't know what "GA Lube No. 1" is. They supply some oil and graphite-looking stuff. I couldn't figure out which was which. 4. I didn't want to change the weight of the first stage so I just installed the trigger and went to the hammer installation steps. I didn't see the need or feel qualified to "bend the springs." 5. "Pull the trigger while controlling the hammer and check for the presence of a second stage." I had problems with this step -- probably because I never had a second stage before so I couldn't "feel" if it was there or not. I just felt one stage (i.e. hammer drops when trigger pulled). Also, I figured out that I was adjusting the wrong screw. The instructions say to "reach through the hole in the trigger." The only "hole" in the trigger that I could devine was what turned out to be the overtravel adjustment screw. So that got me no where. What the are talking about is the SEAR adjustment screw. Once I figured that out, things started coming together. In conclusion, the basic installation was easy. The instructions were difficult (I'm not a gunsmith, ok?) once I got the second stage adjustment. I'm not comfortable that I did it right so I'll be taking my rifle and the instructions to my "expert" and make sure that the settings are correct. FINALLY -- whether I did it right or not -- IT IS ONE SWEET TRIGGER! I pull the trigger back slowly for maybe a half an inch...4 lbs is a reasonable estimation... I feel the trigger bump up against the second stage -- like a wall...then...snap...clean...crisp...WOW. I probably won't be able to fire live rounds this weekend because of Mother's Day but I'll let you know how it works out. |
| I just installed a match model last night in my AR10T. I had a LMT 2 stage in it. Big differance just dry firing it. Can't wait to hit the range tomorrow to try it out. So far the best feeling trigger I have had in any of my ARs and I have tried Armalite, LMT, Mizzano-kreiger (spelling?) and RRA 2 stage triggers. |
| Well, I got a chance to shoot today but I had other problems that prevented me from giving it a full workout. I was able to fire a few rounds, however, -- none in rapid succession. It was VERY nice. I know that I could probably make it better after I learn more about the adjustments. But it was great not to have that gritty creep and heavy pull. Rather, it is a smoooooth pull to a crisp "bang." YMMV but I love it and even though it is a bit pricy, I think that it was worth the money. For example, I'd buy this instead of a rail system -- if I had to chose. |
Must have been a bad day to break in the new trigger day as I had issues too. Nothing to do with the trigger. My problem was that I fired a round and boom mag spring and ammo all over the shooting bench.  But the 30 or so rounds I did get to shoot with the trigger were quite nice. No creep or gritty feel. Just a nice crisp trigger. I hope having a case self destruct didn't hurt my AR10 any.   
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I installed it and screwed with the screws as the instructions stated. I think I should have left them alone. Anyway, it appears to be working fine. Bigbore suggests (in another thread) just killing the overtravel screw. That would be fine with me. I still don't understand the sear adjustment and the weight adjustment so I don't know if I got it right -- other than I didn't blow myself up TODAY. I would like to know how to take it back to the factory settings and start over -- just to be sure. Anyone know what those settings are or how to get back to them? I'm not particularly fond of the idea of taking it out and re-installing it -- especially since the pins won't be as tight if I do. If I understand Bigbore's suggestion, I should back the overtravel screw out so that it is non-functional. Get the sear screw where it needs to be, then only adjust the weight screw? I'd really rather learn how to do this than send it out to someone to check. |
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It darn blowed up real good! I didn't mess with the overtravel screw any but I did set up the 2nd stage and sear like they said in the instructions. As mine came the 2nd stage screw was fluch with the top s the disconecter. I ended up turning the 2nd stage screw in 1/4 turn in to tighten up the 2nd stage a little as I bought the match trigger as am not used to the light weight yet. Here are some slightly different instructins that mught help. www.creedmoorsports.com/Geissele-Installation-Inst-Rev1.pdf |
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Talk about customer service! WOW. Two phone calls today and about 45 minutes on the phone with Bill (yes, the Man himself) and I'm ready to go. I really learned a lot. Bill was patient and informative -- in spite of the fact that I'm a total noob with these kind of things. He helped me get it set up right but more that that, he helped me understand (in addition, he gave me some confidence so that I can now take the trigger out and put it back within less than 5 minutes -- cool). What a nice individual. I'm sure that when the "take rate" on these things gets to where it ought to be, he won't have as much time for such personal service but it does show a serious commitment to the customer. I am confident that he has shown that commitment in the design of this trigger. For the rest of you, I really think you should follow BigBore's advice and just install with the factory settings and don't dick with it. Hopefully, I'll get to the ranch this weekend, fix my short-stroking problem, and put the trigger through its paces. 
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Ok. I think I've got it set up close to right. I went through the proceedures again. Once I got it set by feel, I looked at the disconnector position and the hammer tail position as I found the second stage. I probably touch the tail just before but the hammer drops right on que so I figure I'm close enough. In other words, the disconnector, rises up as the hammer tail comes back. When I feel the second stage, I look at the disconnector and it is just touching (maybe a little more) the hammer tail...but as soon as I apply any pressure, the hammer drops. I may not have it perfect but ....
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Fixed my other problems so I got to really focus on the trigger at the ranch today. It is very smooth and comes up solidly against the second stage. After you bump up against the second stage, application of very little additional pressure and the hammer drops. Frequently, it was a surprise to me when it went off -- which was a little disconcerting -- but with practice, I could anticipate it pretty well. The first stage is perfect but I wonder if I'd be better off with a little heavier second stage. Then again, I need to shoot it a lot more before I make up my mind. Perhaps I should just squeeze it like it was a single stage. As to the second stage...well, if you squeeze correctly, it is supposed to be a surprise when it goes off...right? Rapid fire -- just like the movie! Wow, is all I can say. I'm breaking in a new barrel, so I couldn't burn a mag but it was damn fast. I noticed that I was getting a little "polishing" on the right side of the hammer tail from the disconnector so I think I'll need to re-set the trigger again before I shoot again. I don't think they are supposed to touch...close, but not touching. All in all, it was sure worth the price. I now have a smooth AR trigger with basically a set trigger built in. I can pull through or I can set and squeeze for long shots/accuracy. One trigger, multiple modes. Pretty cool...and the workmanship is superb...built like a tank. Thanks, Bill. |
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I installed the Match Trigger version of the Geissele this past week and used the rifle in a match this weekend. The installation was quite easy and the adjustments were pretty simple. The trigger is just under 3 pounds and most of it is the first stage. I see no reason to go any lower than that. I built the lower from a Stag lower with parts from various places and a Magpul stock. I applied the moly-lube as described and the trigger is very smooth. I just have to decide if I need to use the oversize pins that came with the trigger. I had little difficulty pushing in the pins that were in the trigger and hammer using a little nylon hammer. The instructions tell of greater difficulty putting in the pins than I encountered. Maybe I should just leave well enough alone and call it good. Any thoughts would be appreciated. As for the trigger itself, my impressions are that it should be patented as a mind-reading device. It's almost like it breaks just thinking about it, it's unbelievable. Highly recommended. I may just have to get another one for my NM rifle. |
I'd leave it alone - at least till you've shot it more. Until you get familiar with it, I don't think the chances of improving it are as great as the chances for mucking it up and having to do multiple re-sets to get you back where you are now.
My sentiments exactly. Quite amazing. |
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Dinger: I bought mine direct from Geissele Automatics, (I'm kind of old and stupid and did not realize until after I had placed my order that Bigbore was selling them.) It took about 3-4 weeks until the trigger showed up, as you say they were backordered but I did not mind waiting. I suspect other people with higher priorities were ahead of me. Wolf_Warrior: Very wise of you. I think I will do just that. For right now, it is working like a dream. |
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