Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 4/6/2006 1:52:14 PM EDT
Since the sunset of the "assault weapon ban" I've still heard a lot about parts for an AR-15. Can an M-16 hammer be put in an AR-15 legally? The bolt is still AR-15. Can a person put in the trigger from an M-16 in an AR-15? Some of the aftermarket M-16 items are cheaper than purchasing the AR-15 parts? All help is appreciated.

Thanks for the help.

Michael
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 3:31:49 PM EDT
Avoid putting ANY m-16 fire control parts in your weapon. The bolt carrier doesnt matter, but avoid hammer, trigger, sear. It would be best for you to just buy a fire control group from one of the vendors here or elsewhere to avoid any legal troubles.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 4:05:06 PM EDT
This topic has been beat to death . You can do whatever you want except make a machine gun or own enough parts to make a machine gun or own parts with the intent to make a machine gun. I wouldn't worry about one or two parts but contact the BATF to see what they say.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 4:06:52 PM EDT
I almost forgot: the BATF says it is OK to use M16 parts if you modify them to be like AR15 parts.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 9:41:40 PM EDT
If you gun fires in full auto it is illegal. Other than that it is legal.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:56:29 AM EDT
so if i have a full auto but never put the selector on full auto it would be legal cause it wont fire full auto
when its set to semi. so it would only be illegal it i were to put it on full auto. right?



Originally Posted By DevL:
If you gun fires in full auto it is illegal. Other than that it is legal.

Link Posted: 4/7/2006 2:05:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KurtVF:
This topic has been beat to death . You can do whatever you want except make a machine gun or own enough parts to make a machine gun or own parts with the intent to make a machine gun. I wouldn't worry about one or two parts but contact the BATF to see what they say.



Wonderful ARFCOM misinformation. Why is the couple of bucks so important? Why not just buy a FCG you didnt hack to peices yourself and save yourself all the heartache of asking retards like these? Your best bet?......buy an AR FCG and be done with it.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 4:46:13 AM EDT
Here's the legal definition of MG:

"(b) Machinegun

The term “machinegun” means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person."

If ATF can make your seized gun shoot more than one shot when the trigger is pulled, by using or modifying any parts you have in your possession, assembled or not, you have a MG.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 7:53:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 7:56:45 AM EDT by boltcatch]

Originally Posted By m4envy:
so if i have a full auto but never put the selector on full auto it would be legal cause it wont fire full auto
when its set to semi. so it would only be illegal it i were to put it on full auto. right?



Hell no. Having full auto would entail having a third hole, third pin, and auto sear, which are a ticket to a nice federal pound-you-in-the-ass prison. Similarly, if you had all those parts in and a semi selector that wouldn't go to the FA postiion, it's still a machinegun. None of this has anything to do with the 94 Assault Weapons Ban; since you seem to be rather confused, I would put off messing with any of this until you understand these things.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 9:05:16 AM EDT
Thank you to those with the positive information. I'm far from new when it comes to M-16's and AR-15's. With over 20 years of law enforcement the law can be confusing. BATF wants the law to be confusing thus opening the door to a variety of interpretations. Again, thank you for your help. Michael
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 8:11:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bloodsport2885:

Originally Posted By KurtVF:
This topic has been beat to death . You can do whatever you want except make a machine gun or own enough parts to make a machine gun or own parts with the intent to make a machine gun. I wouldn't worry about one or two parts but contact the BATF to see what they say.



Wonderful ARFCOM misinformation. Why is the couple of bucks so important? Why not just buy a FCG you didnt hack to peices yourself and save yourself all the heartache of asking retards like these? Your best bet?......buy an AR FCG and be done with it.


I don't see how telling someone to contact the BATF is "misinformation". I agree it would be easier to buy AR parts to begin with and avoid dealing with less than intelligent government burocrats but that wasn't his question. I am able to read and understand the regulations and think I have a pretty good understanding of them, but have given up trying to convince others.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 10:08:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:04:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Boom:
Here is the best advice your going to get.

Go to the ATF website and read the data for yourself. Do not take legal advice from guys on the internet.



I might add "especially guys on AR15.com and Bushmaster"
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 6:36:21 AM EDT
Boom gave you the best advice yet. I would just follow it up by saying that get whatever the ATF tells you in writing or it doesn't mean a thing. You can call three different ATF offices and get three different answers to the same question. Unless you have it in writing it won't help you when you need it (and it may not help you then).
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 8:06:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 8:10:42 AM EDT by DevL]
No, you cant just omit the selector on the full auto parts. If they pull your disconnector and you have an auto sear, auto trigger, and auto carier it would still fire full auto (full auto only not select fire) thus be an illegal machinegun. However a hole for the auto sear is manufacture of a machinegun, a DIAS is a machinegun, etc. If you have auto parts installed and they pull your disconnector and it doubles you can go to jail an be charged with possesion. Realise this is able to happen even with s semi AR15 if you dont run a Colt spec carrier and hammer to make your rifle jam if it has a disconnector failure so pretty much they can throw the book at you and charge you with posession at will if they want. You would be relying on a jury to not convict you and if they are told you have full auto trigger and hammer and carrier you are pretty much risking prison for a few bucks. Id not risk that for a couple bucks. You could however convert the auto parts to semi with a dremel tool if you are that cheap.

The law is "if it is a full auto it is illegal" That means "more than one shot per trigger manipulation" it also means "a hle for an auto sear is drilled" it also means "a DIAS or lightning link or any other device solely intended to make a rifle fire full auto" it does not mean "it would not normally fire full auto but could if you if you did X,Y, or Z" such as having all full auto parts and a semi selector.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 8:35:28 AM EDT
DEVL NONONONONO DO NOT HAVE AUTO PARTS PERIOD...DO NOT PASS GO GO STRAIGHT TO JAIL...IT IS CALLED CONSTRUCTIVE INTENT.



sorry about the caps lock
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 9:06:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Boom:
Here is the best advice your going to get.

Go to the ATF website and read the data for yourself. Do not take legal advice from guys on the internet.



This is some of the worst advice you are going to get.
Asking the ATF about the law is like asking the weatherman if it is going to be sunny or rainy.
Neither of them really knows, they just kind of make it up as they go along.
Here is the rules to live by -
M16 Bolt Carrier Group is ok, M16 FCG - not ok.
Don't install any M16 hammer, trigger, disconnector, or anything in your gun.
Just remember this though - if the ATF wants you, they will get you.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 9:13:32 AM EDT
No auto sear = no problem
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 10:13:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 10:14:17 AM EDT by DevL]

Originally Posted By hound:
DEVL NONONONONO DO NOT HAVE AUTO PARTS PERIOD...DO NOT PASS GO GO STRAIGHT TO JAIL...IT IS CALLED CONSTRUCTIVE INTENT.



sorry about the caps lock



The ATF has stated quite clearly that you are breaking no laws if you have full auto parts but the rifle does not fire full auto. The best example is the full auto carrier that is sold from the factory by Colt in non full auto rifles. It is not constructive intent unless you have enough parts to create a full auto. The ATF only "reccomends" not to have any so people do not inadvertantly end up with enough parts to make a full auto. Lets keep the facts straight and not requote misinformation or the Bushmaster website... well thats the same thing though isnt it?
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 10:57:24 AM EDT
machine tools and parts are constructive intent. A shoe string can be a machine gun. The easiest way to avaoid pound me in the ass prison is to "avoid any resembleance of impropriety". I like that way, no agent looking for a bust is going to have it easy. Having full auto parts period is giving too much to make their life easier.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 7:50:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/12/2006 7:53:20 AM EDT by kreigle]

Originally Posted By Lon_Moer:
No auto sear = no problem



That is not quite true. I had a 16" shorty w/collapsible stock in the early '90s. I had replaced the crappy ar trigger/disconnect/selector/carrier with m16 parts as the ar parts wouldn' even reliably work, they were machined so badly.

This rifle did NOT have the sear, nor was it drilled for one. I could still fire full-auto with the selector in the auto position!!

I had had this rifle for about 3 yrs like this when my brother and I were at the local range one day and he flipped the selector to auto for a short burst. Bad move. There was a game warden at the range, and he detained us and called the local police. Needless to say, our case went all the way to the Federal level and the ATF came to our house, took away my FFL (I had a 01 FFL at the time) and we spent the next 4 months driving up to the Harrisburg, PA Federal building for grillings from the court-appointed attorney before the case was finally dropped (as a condition for the case being dropped we still had to perform ~500hrs community service).

I won't say that m16 parts in an AR will always be full-auto, but there is the possibility that it may. I had my life messed up for 2 yrs because of it and was extremely lucky to not go to jail or get fined.


Originally Posted By boltcatch:

Hell no. Having full auto would entail having a third hole, third pin, and auto sear, which are a ticket to a nice federal pound-you-in-the-ass prison. Similarly, if you had all those parts in and a semi selector that wouldn't go to the FA postiion, it's still a machinegun. None of this has anything to do with the 94 Assault Weapons Ban; since you seem to be rather confused, I would put off messing with any of this until you understand these things.



+1

Yes, merely having any of the M16 FCG parts qualifies the weapon as a machinegun. Use them at your own risk.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 8:26:06 AM EDT
Why do you guys insist on lying?
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 6:13:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/12/2006 6:19:25 PM EDT by kreigle]

Originally Posted By DevL:
Why do you guys insist on lying?



Where you are referring to me with that off-the wall quip?

You don't believe me? Then check these court documents out:

United States vs. K. Reigle pt 1

United States vs. K. Reigle pt 2

and may I remind you, that the receiver in question was NOT machined or modified in any way. The onl;y non-AR parts were the fire-control group parts (trigger, disconnector and selector).

I haven't yet tried re-applying for a new FFL (was thinking about a C&R this time) - I'm not sure I want them bringing this back from the dead.


Oh, and I was wrong about the community service: it wasn't 500 hrs, it was 6 months, the length of the supervised release
(edited for typo in URL)
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 7:51:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 8:19:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By m4envy:
so if i have a full auto but never put the selector on full auto it would be legal cause it wont fire full auto
when its set to semi. so it would only be illegal it i were to put it on full auto. right?



Originally Posted By DevL:
If you gun fires in full auto it is illegal. Other than that it is legal.








...Here we go again...

Link Posted: 4/12/2006 8:43:36 PM EDT
kreigle,

You are one lucky person.

Glad you got through that ass intact...
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 4:24:14 AM EDT
Thanks guys.

My brother and I do realize how lucky we were. Then the charges were first drawn up, we were looking at ~ 10yrs in a Federal prison.


§ 5871. Penalties
Any person who violates or fails to comply with any provisions of this chapter shall, upon conviction, be fined not more than $10,000, or be imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.



kc3 had it correct when he quoted from The National Firearms Act (NFA), cited as the Act of June 26, 1934, Ch. 757, 48 Stat. 1236, as amended, currently codified as Chapter 53 of the Internal Revenue Code > TITLE 26 > Subtitle E > CHAPTER 53 > Subchapter B > PART I > § 5845.

I won't waste space repeating his post here since you can page up an read it, but suffice to say that if you own any full-auto parts without a registered NFA weopon to use them in - you better be careful (unless, of course you're not worried about the law). I owned and shot my rifle for 4 years with no issues, but all it takes is one moment of inattention to your surroundings or the wrong person asking to look at the rifle - and your goose is cooked.

Now I wish this topic could go to bed. Like otehrs have mentioned before, this has been beaten to death.
Top Top