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Posted: 1/4/2006 7:01:43 PM EDT
I would like to see pics of your rifles with daniel defense handguards. I can not decide between it and the larue. I like the oval profile of the standard M4 handguard, but not quite sure if the DD would be comparable. I'd really like to see some pics with different rail panels. Specificall Magpul and standard lo-pro ladders. Thanks!
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 7:45:10 PM EDT
mid length DD 9.0



carabine DD 7.0 M4




Doesn't show it that great but hope they help.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 6:17:39 AM EDT
Thanks. Does the DD feel like the M4 handguard, or is it bigger?
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 6:26:36 AM EDT
I got KAC panels on my DD rails and they IMHO are the most comfortable rail out there. I was running the ladder panels but they got hot quick so I went to the KAC panels and it feel just as comfortable if not more than the M4 handguards. The lightness is also a very BIG +.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 12:05:31 PM EDT
Also, the "alignment pins" that come with the DD, do these lock the rail in place, or just make sure it is in line with the flat top upper?
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 12:10:29 PM EDT
the ONLY thing they do is align the forend with the barrel nut. You have to align the barrel nut perfectly and not just enough to get the gas tube through...



I have done a little cutting of the "excess" at the end of the 9.0FSPM:







More HERE

With KAC panels:

Link Posted: 1/5/2006 12:34:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 12:37:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 12:44:37 PM EDT
Many are under the misconception that the DD rails are narrower than the Larue; they are not. What they are is taller, which makes them FEEL narrower. I own both and have taken the calipers to both. I don't have the measurements handy, but I know that they are the same width.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 12:50:18 PM EDT
that can't be true, that would mean the larue's aren't level with the upper becuase the DD's top rail sure is...

Bigbore- that's the upper you sold me with a few mods...

Jtac- can you give me a better picture of the locking ring? I see they now include rail position numbers and would like to see more detail of the ring.

thanks
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 12:51:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:11:56 PM EDT


Crappy pic, but there's my Recce. Still need a Flip FSB and an Optic. Cursed Lack of funds. . .
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:12:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JosephR:
that can't be true, that would mean the larue's aren't level with the upper becuase the DD's top rail sure is...


Taller does not mean that they sit higher. It means that they are taller in the vertical dimension. As Bigbore said, the bottom rail is lower.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 3:12:34 PM EDT
JosephR, who makes that magazine pouch? Thanks to all who have given their input. Keep it coming!
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 3:22:15 PM EDT
12.0 FSPM here.

Link Posted: 1/5/2006 5:03:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 6:09:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JJREA:
mid length DD 9.0
images.snapfish.com/345966%3B87%7Ffp338%3Enu%3D3235%3E392%3E252%3­EWSNRCG%3D3233399%3B%3A9777nu0mrj
Doesn't show it that great but hope they help.


Is that a carbine length gas system with a PRI gas block?

I was considering doing the same thing with a LaRue gas block since I have a DD 9.0 just laying around, but I figured the gas block would be farther back.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:45:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 7:45:41 PM EDT by JosephR]
Thanks JTAC (Jason, right?) !

I don't know if I like that or not. I think I don't... It looks painted or coated and not smoothly anodized like mine used to be...

I see what you are saying Bigbore. The DD is taller than the LaRue dimensionally but the tops of both are both level with the tops of the flattop receiver, right?

Wierd...

Websniper- TacForce makes the pouch. Bigbore sells the TacForce cases which come with one pouch. They are very nice. There is a soft case discussion going on somewhere right now and they've been mentioned by a few people. I have to give props to savvysurvivor.com which is who I got mine from before ADCO offered them in tan. Until recently, I didn't know how to get my hands on just the mag pouches. Maybe Bigbore can help you out but if not, Island Tactical (www.islandtactical.com) has them for about $20 in Black, OD or Tan. They were out of Tan so I got an OD and it's very Dark.

I don't abuse my stuff and it doesn't get a good work out but their design is great. You can stuff a wooden paint stirrer down the backsides of the pouch compartments to loosen the velcro holding the flaps and either remove them completely or reposition them to allow for magpuls or whatever. You can tuck the flaps behind the pouch or even down inside the pouches if you want them out of the way of the mags. when down inside, there is elastic to keep them from wiggling around. The leftmost one in the pics is actually doubled over and tucked inside. Elastic under the front velcro and around the sides keeps each individual compartment tight too. The back is 100% hook velcro for attaching to a vest. I need a vest...
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:55:24 PM EDT
9.5FSP ...Didn't think I'd like the Front Sight rails but I really do now that I got used to it.

Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:28:41 AM EDT
Thanks JosephR, I remember looking at that thread a few days ago. I just might have to get one of those case. They seem pretty decent. Still somewhat undecided on the rail system..... I would like to get both the Larue and DD in my grubby mits.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:39:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 7:39:38 AM EDT by macman37]
Any advantage to the rails that extend past the front sight, or is that just for the uber-tactical crowd?

I'm considering upgrading my one piece RRA float tube to something like this when I have some work done at ADCO.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:05:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:
Any advantage to the rails that extend past the front sight, or is that just for the uber-tactical crowd?

I'm considering upgrading my one piece RRA float tube to something like this when I have some work done at ADCO.


Protects you from hot FSBs during transition drills while giving you a bit more room to extend out a light, etc.

It's not all about looks....
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:17:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mattld:

Originally Posted By macman37:
Any advantage to the rails that extend past the front sight, or is that just for the uber-tactical crowd?

I'm considering upgrading my one piece RRA float tube to something like this when I have some work done at ADCO.


Protects you from hot FSBs during transition drills while giving you a bit more room to extend out a light, etc.

It's not all about looks....



Hmmm. Might have to upgrade then.

Thanks!
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:39:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 8:40:11 AM EDT by Duffy]


KAC rail covers at 9 and 3 o'clcok, but the ladder type cover on the bottom to create a round shape for my non shooting hand, I never got used to DD's oval profile
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 9:57:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mattld:

Originally Posted By macman37:
Any advantage to the rails that extend past the front sight, or is that just for the uber-tactical crowd?

I'm considering upgrading my one piece RRA float tube to something like this when I have some work done at ADCO.


Protects you from hot FSBs during transition drills while giving you a bit more room to extend out a light, etc.

It's not all about looks....



Yep, I did the same thing with a low profile gas block and a 12.0 Larue.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:27:50 AM EDT
JosephR, what color is your rifle done in?
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 12:32:12 PM EDT
Duracoat Tiger Stripe Brown.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 3:23:51 PM EDT
7.0 with KAC Panels:
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:44:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JosephR:
Duracoat Tiger Stripe Brown.



Thanks, your rifle is badass.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 10:56:02 AM EDT
thanks West996. Do you own a 996?


Nice rig AKM. I always thought DD forends looked good in place of KAC forends.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 12:45:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By in_burrito:

Originally Posted By JosephR:
that can't be true, that would mean the larue's aren't level with the upper becuase the DD's top rail sure is...


Taller does not mean that they sit higher. It means that they are taller in the vertical dimension. As Bigbore said, the bottom rail is lower.



this may help

the DD is on the left



Link Posted: 1/13/2006 10:57:04 AM EDT
Can someonegive me the measurements of the DD? Top to bottom and width? Thanks.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:00:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Websniper:
Can someonegive me the measurements of the DD? Top to bottom and width? Thanks.


I'll try to remember to check when I get home tonight. I measured once before but can't find it now.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:09:11 AM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:04:48 PM EDT
Well, I caved and ordered A DD 7.0 from Brownells. The great thing about them is that if I don't like it, I just send it right on back! I just have to touchy-feely before I buy. Thanks for the info guys.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:35:07 PM EDT
DD 2.4"
LT 2.2"
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 7:04:28 PM EDT
Wow, not nearly as much difference as I would have thought.....
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 12:10:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 7:11:00 PM EDT by Websniper]
Well, just got my DD 7.0 from brownells. I don't have it on the gun yet, but I don't think I like the feel of this forearm with the ladder rails that it comes with. The oval profile just leaves too much space between the rails....My hand kind of likes to have something there. Any input from you guys on whether or not full panels feel better than the ladder type? I might get some magpul or TD full panels and try them before I send this thing back. BTW, Joseph, my tac force case should be in tomm. Thanks for the recomendation.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 12:22:09 PM EDT
What are you mounting to the rail? If you're using a forward grip like the Tango Down then your hand isn't going to be on the rail anyway. If you shoot with your hand on the magwell, your hand isn't going to be on the rail. If you shoot with your hand on the rail and all you're using is ladder covers, you're going to burn your hand regardless of whether its a Daniel Defense rail, or a Larue Rail.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 12:31:30 PM EDT
I am not planning on using a VFG. The main reason I'm getting a rail forearm is to mount a white light. I usually hold the forearm of the rifle, or the magwell. So, if I'm not wearing gloves, it sounds like you are recomending full rail covers.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 2:56:26 PM EDT
MagPul XT's. They're great, very slim, and fill that space you're talking about.

According to Forest's excellent AR15 weight table, there's only .1ounce difference in weight between the ladders and the XTs.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 3:14:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By redfisher:

Originally Posted By in_burrito:

Originally Posted By JosephR:
that can't be true, that would mean the larue's aren't level with the upper becuase the DD's top rail sure is...


Taller does not mean that they sit higher. It means that they are taller in the vertical dimension. As Bigbore said, the bottom rail is lower.



this may help

the DD is on the left

img.photobucket.com/albums/v400/redfisher19/DD.jpg




I can't help but see a problem with the difference in measurements. The DD appears to have a taller upper and lower rail. The LaRue MUST have a larger inside diameter then, huh?

The LaRue side rails seem to stick out farther and if the diameter of the round portion of the tube is indeed bigger, they must REALLY stick out farther.

what is the width of the two?
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 3:26:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JosephR:
I can't help but see a problem with the difference in measurements. The DD appears to have a taller upper and lower rail. The LaRue MUST have a larger inside diameter then, huh?

The LaRue side rails seem to stick out farther and if the diameter of the round portion of the tube is indeed bigger, they must REALLY stick out farther.

what is the width of the two?


I know that you're just trying to understand all of this, but if you can't get it then just rest assured that the DD and the LT both work just fine and both put the top rail even with the flattop rail of the upper receiver. The width of the two is nearly identical, to within a couple hundredths of an inch.

It may be hard to tell from this pic, but the top gun has a DD rail and the bottom one has a LT. Both are even with the flattop.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 4:41:28 PM EDT
Is the actual tube for the DD oval? I was thinking it was perfectly round but the distance the rails are from it are what make it seem oval. With the top and bottom farther from the body and the sides in close, it would make even a round tube seem oval when looking at the overall section.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:12:33 PM EDT
The DD is 2.43" tall by 1.94" wide.
The LT is 2.23" tall by 1.95" wide.

So they are both a little "oval", with the DD being slightly more so. This is what causes alot of people to think that the DD is narrower, simply because it looks like it would be.

The LT difference is that hte LT rails are not equa-distant from the barrel in the vertical dimension. the bottom rail is closer to the bore-axis than the top rail is.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 6:12:16 PM EDT
oh i see now- the LT is upside down...

Link Posted: 1/19/2006 6:32:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JosephR:
oh i see now- the LT is upside down...



Yes, that does appear to be the case in the photograph above of the two rails. Notice that you can't really tell if the DD is upside down or not because it's symetrical (or very nearly) in each direction.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 7:13:45 PM EDT
Somebody mentioned that it's hard to get the alignment pins lined up properly. Any feedback on this?
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 7:32:17 PM EDT
it's absolutely 100% easy to line them up properly and you can't insert the forend into the locking ring unless they are aligned.

But, it is possible with the DD to not get the barrel nut perfectly aligned even though the gas tube seems to fit correctly. If the barrel nut is 1mm off, then the forend will be the same amount off. The alignment pins are put into the 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock holes in the barrel nut after you tighten down the barrel nut. They correspond to holes in the forend. I think I've got mine a teenie tiny bit off of being perfect right now...

Link Posted: 1/19/2006 7:48:59 PM EDT
Thanks joseph. That kind of what I was talking about. The fact that even thought the holes may be aligned close enought to allow the gas tube through, the rail might not be true to the rail on the upper. It kind of sounds like it is a trial and error/pain in the ass process.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 11:45:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Websniper:
Thanks joseph. That kind of what I was talking about. The fact that even thought the holes may be aligned close enought to allow the gas tube through, the rail might not be true to the rail on the upper. It kind of sounds like it is a trial and error/pain in the ass process.



For me, it wasn't a huge PITA to align it all. It did take a couple of trial/error runs, but it' not really that bad. I think checking main bearing clearances is much more of a PITA by comparison.

I still haven't tried a LaRue handguard, but I really like the feel of my DD 9.5 FSP. The profile makes it really comfortable (for me at least), and I have a hard time deciding whether or not to get one of the LaRues for my next railed upper or to get another DD. The lower rail seems to stick down just far enough to fit me perfectly.
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