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Posted: 12/15/2005 8:35:22 AM EDT
Has anybody seen a review for their can or seen them compaired to the other major players? I'm looking to buy, just need to find which one.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 8:38:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2005 8:01:21 PM EDT by bigbore]
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 8:44:09 AM EDT
I'm looking for a fast attach version. What would be your recommendation?
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 8:50:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:47:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bigbore:

Originally Posted By madrhythm:
Has anybody seen a review for their can or seen them compaired to the other major players? I'm looking to buy, just need to find which one.



Everything I have heard from non-biased sources is that its loud, and there are many better options - TROY, OPS INC, Gemtech, etc... The Surefire CAN is really expensive, but they have to pay for all that advertising somehow.



No louder than the KAC. It is also lighter than any other QD can on the market, and it has almost no POI shift. SF has a lot of cool stuff related to suppressors that will be out by SHOT.

I dig the Troy (but haven't used one yet), and from what people say it is pretty darn quiet.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 10:01:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2005 10:02:16 PM EDT by gordon_freeman]
what?! that's impossible, the Surefire sponsored gun rags say that the surefire suppressor is vastly superior to anything else on the market!

Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:04:45 AM EDT
Dennysguns of globaltactical.com (look in the industry forum if youre not familiar with the company) has shot both the Troy and the Surefire, along with a bunch of other ones. He sells the Troy, now RD Systems, and mabey the Surefire ones.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 7:09:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 7:11:08 AM EDT by Green0]
"Everything I have heard from non-biased sources is that its loud, and there are many better options - TROY, OPS INC, Gemtech, etc... The Surefire CAN is really expensive, but they have to pay for all that advertising somehow."

+1 I reccomend looking at an AAC M4-2000-- it's really competitive and affordably priced.

Of course if that within 1MOA POI change is true-- that would really be one of the best cans for that if not the best on the market. Judgeing from the fact that even Troy isn't doing that- I would say it probably won't happen with the Surefire either.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 9:09:54 AM EDT
i'm no expert but i have heard that POI shift is more prevalent in cans that are the quietest. therefore the surefire can would be louder than a gemtech, aac.

from what i have heard and read, the POI shift is caused by the asymetrical baffle desing but thats what makes them (gemtech, aac) so quiet.

so i guess its up to the operator, what is most important? personally i would like to have both, a really quiet can for a short barrel doing CQB work and a can for a sniping rifle that has little POI shift. that is my goal.

i have a m4 2000 from aac, the only down side is the special flash hider that costs $90 friggin bucks, what crook. the up side of the pricy FH/mount is that its a really slick set up for putting in on and off. the POI shift really was not to bad, it more than 1 MOA to be sure but i'm not long range marksmen so is not a big deal. on a 18" barrel its very quiet too, no need for ear plugs.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 9:57:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 10:32:32 AM EDT by bigbore]
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 9:58:06 AM EDT
Sounds like you should use the AAC suppressor on your accurate rifle and buy a Omni for your CQB need.

The Omni confronts that $90 FH problem, but costs another $900 or more with transfer so maybe it would be a better idea to just buy ten flash hiders if you have that many rifles?
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 10:52:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bigbore:

Originally Posted By mr_h:
i'm no expert but i have heard that POI shift is more prevalent in cans that are the quietest. therefore the surefire can would be louder than a gemtech, aac.



Design of the can, the way it mounts, and what barrel you are putting it on all adds up. The Shoulder locking like TROY, Surefire, and OPS INC are the best for accuracy The Gemtech M402, which just screws on the muzzle is less than ideal, but considering its made for SBRs, its not really an issue. None will shift beyond minute of bad guy.

Screw any of the above to a 16" HBAR, then to a 20" Govt Profile barrel, you can bet there will be different shifts in point of impact. Adding 1lb to the end of your muzzle will change things no matter what.

As soon as my OPS INC suppressors arrive, I'll have some real good data to compare regarding sound and points of impact. I'm putting my money on the OPS can - as the TROY and Surefire cans were definitely influnced in one way or another by OPS.



thanks for the clearification, we never stop learning. i found out about the 20" government profile the hard way. it made a huge difference on that barrel profile so i had to make the switch to a 18" SRP heavy barrel and all is well now.




GreenO
The Omni confronts that $90 FH problem, but costs another $900 or more with transfer so maybe it would be a better idea to just buy ten flash hiders if you have that many rifles?



i have thought along those lines but only need a can for 3 rifles, maybe not all at once either.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 11:20:45 AM EDT
Being that Surefire operates out of Kalifornya, I don't foresee their can coming into the general market. OPS was rumored to be trying to bring their cans to the general market, but apparently couldn't hammer anything out w/ the communist gov't, so it fell through. Last time I read about of them here, Surefire seemed to be taking on an HK'tude, & focusing its effort & resources strictly at the gov't-only crowd.

Quality products & customer service seem to be the general rep. of Gemtech, SWR, & some of the others already mentioned. It's your $$$.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 11:26:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 11:36:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bigbore:

Originally Posted By Master_Blaster:
Being that Surefire operates out of Kalifornya, I don't foresee their can coming into the general market. OPS was rumored to be trying to bring their cans to the general market, but apparently couldn't hammer anything out w/ the communist gov't, so it fell through. Last time I read about of them here, Surefire seemed to be taking on an HK'tude, & focusing its effort & resources strictly at the gov't-only crowd.

Quality products & customer service seem to be the general rep. of Gemtech, SWR, & some of the others already mentioned. It's your $$$.




OPS and Surefire are both for sale outside CA now. Customer Serivce Excellence - I would give to Gemtech without hesitation.



Well now, I stand (happily) corrected!
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 12:28:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 12:28:57 PM EDT by magnum_99]
+1 for Gemtech

But for me, the AAC M4-2000 is THE hot ticket in quick-mount 5.56 cans--their mounting system is the best on the market IMO.

Bilock is nice, but prone to carbon fouling and therefore hard to detach at times.

Both AAC and Gemtech have great customer service, and their cans are extremely well made and quiet.

You cannot go wrong with either.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 1:15:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By madrhythm:
Has anybody seen a review for their can or seen them compaired to the other major players? I'm looking to buy, just need to find which one.



Surefire's own website listed the SPL reduction at 28 dB the last time I looked. That isn't too good, considering that the big-name companies are making 5.56 suppressors that will do 33+ dB reduction -- and at half the price.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:02:01 PM EDT
Not sure what the big deal is with POI shift, you will find that when you get a can and start using it, you never want to shoot without it. At least that is my experience and a couple other suppressor users I know are the same way.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 5:09:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 5:10:03 PM EDT by DevL]
I bought Troy because of Denny's reccomendation after having shot Surefire and Troy and I wanted the quieter can. Only Troy allows you to use the Phantom or Vortex flash hiders. I wish the damned thing would hurry up and get here.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 8:08:27 PM EDT
I've shot many of them. I like the surefire version. But you have to realize that its a rip off of a can that is only available to the feds. An old man in the hills of California makes cans for the feds. He is one crazy old man, but he knows his cans. That crazy old man even has a silenced 10 guage shotgun that sounds like a cap gun.
Let me re-state this. The general public CAN NOT buy his cans. He had an aprentice that worked for his for several years. They had a blow out one day and the aprentice stole a prototype can that the old man was working on. That ass now works for surefire and is in charge of the design team for their cans.
Now I like that old man for a number of reasons. He's got a LOT of character. I don't like supporting his ass of an ex-aprentice, but I can't get his cans. So I guess I'd buy surefire. They will make a projectile more stable if you use their ORIGINAL locking system that uses a unique replacement flash supressor. Very cool stuff.
I have shot the old mans and I have shot the surefire ones. I would buy one of the old mans if I could but I can't for myself. His stuff aint fancy or pretty but it works.
His new aprentice is a retired sheriff sergeant and I hope he can take the company public in the future.
Hope this helps. If you can't figure it out, go to a good class 3 NFA dealer somewhere (a drive is worth it) and try out a few for yourself. You will make up your mind quickly.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 9:19:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gunrun45:
I've shot many of them. I like the surefire version. But you have to realize that its a rip off of a can that is only available to the feds. An old man in the hills of California makes cans for the feds. He is one crazy old man, but he knows his cans. That crazy old man even has a silenced 10 guage shotgun that sounds like a cap gun.
Let me re-state this. The general public CAN NOT buy his cans. He had an aprentice that worked for his for several years. They had a blow out one day and the aprentice stole a prototype can that the old man was working on. That ass now works for surefire and is in charge of the design team for their cans.
Now I like that old man for a number of reasons. He's got a LOT of character. I don't like supporting his ass of an ex-aprentice, but I can't get his cans. So I guess I'd buy surefire. They will make a projectile more stable if you use their ORIGINAL locking system that uses a unique replacement flash supressor. Very cool stuff.
I have shot the old mans and I have shot the surefire ones. I would buy one of the old mans if I could but I can't for myself. His stuff aint fancy or pretty but it works.
His new aprentice is a retired sheriff sergeant and I hope he can take the company public in the future.
Hope this helps. If you can't figure it out, go to a good class 3 NFA dealer somewhere (a drive is worth it) and try out a few for yourself. You will make up your mind quickly.



The SF and Phil's can are very different internally. Same goes with the Troy. The baffle stacks are night and day. Hell, the SF is made from different materials and uses a different locking mechanism. The SF is anywhere from 8-12 oz lighter than Phil's, and as I said, it suppresses as good as the KAC, and is just as durable... But it's lighter, has no POI shift, and adds less to the OAL of the weapon. It's also got one of the best QD mechanisms on the market. It's worth the cash.

The "former apprentice" you mention is FAR from an ass, and accusing him of stuff like the above is out of line.

And BTW, you CAN buy Phil's can. Adco said above that he was getting some, just read above.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 11:57:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Capn_Crunch:

Originally Posted By gunrun45:
I've shot many of them. I like the surefire version. But you have to realize that its a rip off of a can that is only available to the feds. An old man in the hills of California makes cans for the feds. He is one crazy old man, but he knows his cans. That crazy old man even has a silenced 10 guage shotgun that sounds like a cap gun.
Let me re-state this. The general public CAN NOT buy his cans. He had an aprentice that worked for his for several years. They had a blow out one day and the aprentice stole a prototype can that the old man was working on. That ass now works for surefire and is in charge of the design team for their cans.
Now I like that old man for a number of reasons. He's got a LOT of character. I don't like supporting his ass of an ex-aprentice, but I can't get his cans. So I guess I'd buy surefire. They will make a projectile more stable if you use their ORIGINAL locking system that uses a unique replacement flash supressor. Very cool stuff.
I have shot the old mans and I have shot the surefire ones. I would buy one of the old mans if I could but I can't for myself. His stuff aint fancy or pretty but it works.
His new aprentice is a retired sheriff sergeant and I hope he can take the company public in the future.
Hope this helps. If you can't figure it out, go to a good class 3 NFA dealer somewhere (a drive is worth it) and try out a few for yourself. You will make up your mind quickly.



The SF and Phil's can are very different internally. Same goes with the Troy. The baffle stacks are night and day. Hell, the SF is made from different materials and uses a different locking mechanism. The SF is anywhere from 8-12 oz lighter than Phil's, and as I said, it suppresses as good as the KAC, and is just as durable... But it's lighter, has no POI shift, and adds less to the OAL of the weapon. It's also got one of the best QD mechanisms on the market. It's worth the cash.

The "former apprentice" you mention is FAR from an ass, and accusing him of stuff like the above is out of line.

And BTW, you CAN buy Phil's can. Adco said above that he was getting some, just read above.



Link Posted: 12/17/2005 3:46:50 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 6:45:35 PM EDT
I have shot both the Surefire can and the OPS Inc. . The OPS is definately more quiet but the technology in the SF can is impressive. A couple of cans in use have far more that the 30,000 warranty period and they still function like new. The SF can is soooooo light which is a huge factor in lengthy searches. Both cans are quiet enough to satisfy.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 7:13:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 12:03:48 PM EDT
Is there a recommended barrel length for suppressor use? Will a shorter barrel shorten the life of the suppressor?
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 12:14:45 PM EDT
Tag.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 1:12:46 PM EDT
Well, nobody's mentioned SWR's cans as of yet. I have a Specwar-2 that I'm very happy with. I really like AAC's qd mechanism, though I've not had the chance to play with one yet.

As for Surefire and Troy, I'm planning on holding off on buying either until enough people have had them to get a large sample size of feedback. Surefire's sponsored writeups and thinly veiled marketing drivel in those gun rags are so absurd it makes me not want to buy one of their cans.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 3:55:40 PM EDT
Interesting info

Silencer Tests
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