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Posted: 12/13/2005 3:35:39 PM EDT
Tomorrow I plan on getting a 20" bushmaster chrome lined barrel on a RRA upper with a LT FF rail. My question is will the bushmaster barrel let me down?

What I will be shooting:

Mostly shooting at the range, mostly 100 yard out to 300 yards possibly.
I don't plan on shooting expensive match ammo. The most expensive I would go would be some kind of Black Hills new ammo.
I guess as long as I will shoot moa I will be happy. I know other barrels are for sub moa but will it matter?

Any one shoot sub moa with match ammo out of a factory bushmaster or other barrel?

I just want good accuracy with good, not great ammo.

Should I just get the bushy or get something better? It is kind of hard to explain but hopefully you get the point.

For example if I sight my rifle in with really good ammo, will I get really good results or will I need a better barrel. I know it will help, but how much difference will I see?
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 3:50:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 3:50:27 PM EDT by 1911builder]
With good ammo and proper marksmanship instruction and training the bushmaster barrel will serve you well. When you have reached a certain level of proficiency the more expensive barrels and better ammo will make a distinct improvement in your shooting skill. Achieving good shooting skills is about practice, practice and more practice. Charles.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 4:12:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 4:13:47 PM EDT by Green0]
What is the contour?

If it's medium or heavy you probably will see accuracy under one MOA with a floated barrel and that should last for around 4000 rounds as long as you don't cook it by firing like 400-500 rounds in less than five minutes, or firing for a long enough duration to really get the barrel hot without letting it cool.

After that you get into the area where the stainless barrel would have been a better idea if you want that performance. If not you'll just see accuracy taper off to 3-5MOA and then it should flatten out for a long time.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:03:39 PM EDT
gov profile
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:11:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 8:14:01 PM EDT by johndoexu]
I have a bushy 20" govt profile (NOT free-floated) that will do 1"-1.25" groups at 200 yards with winchester white box (55 grain FMJ), kinda curious what it will do with the black hills 68 grain coming in the mail. I'm assuming it will do 1" and less at 200 yards with match ammo, maybe my specific barrel was just the pick of the litter.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:38:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jackal2001:
Tomorrow I plan on getting a 20" bushmaster chrome lined barrel on a RRA upper with a LT FF rail. My question is will the bushmaster barrel let me down?

What I will be shooting:

Mostly shooting at the range, mostly 100 yard out to 300 yards possibly.
I don't plan on shooting expensive match ammo.



That is all you had to say. No.... the barrel wont make much difference then.


The most expensive I would go would be some kind of Black Hills new ammo.
I guess as long as I will shoot moa I will be happy.



Even with quality BH ammo... there is no guarantee a rack grade chrome lined bushy will *average* MOA. 2MOA? All day long. And it probably will be capable of MOA.... but not any more. You need to really figure out what you want.... a good running shooter to practice with and shoot any kind of ammo, or a match grade shooter with match grade ammo.


I know other barrels are for sub moa but will it matter?


Only if getting small groups are really important to you. If they are... you need to handload and buy a match stainless barrel. Are you a sub-MOA proven shooter? Most arent. If 1-2MOA are good enough for you, get the bushy barrel.


Any one shoot sub moa with match ammo out of a factory bushmaster or other barrel?


Mine wont. I have shot 50, 55, 68, 69, and 77 gr handloads and BH factory rounds out my govt profile chrome lined 1:7 bushy.... and I average around 1.5 MOA. But I hardly ever shoot it for groups... I have other rifles for that.


I just want good accuracy with good, not great ammo.

Should I just get the bushy or get something better? It is kind of hard to explain but hopefully you get the point.



Sorta.


For example if I sight my rifle in with really good ammo, will I get really good results or will I need a better barrel. I know it will help, but how much difference will I see?


Again... depends on your expectations and how you will use it. If most of your shooting will be on the bench, punching paper... you are a really good shooter, and you have an expectation of MOA or better.... you need to plan for really good factory ammo (or handloads) and a decent barrel. If you want a barrel that can do it all, take the punishment, and you will engage in all types of shooting styles, get the bushy. Thats how I see it.

I see all kinds of people who spend a ton of money on great gear, fancy barrels, scopes, etc... then go to the range, and either run Wolf (and get pissed off that it groups 3MOA) or they cant shoot for shit, and lack the discipline or motivation to improve.... blast their 50 rounds of whatever the range was selling that day, and go home.

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:42:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By johndoexu:
I have a bushy 20" govt profile (NOT free-floated) that will do 1"-1.25" groups at 200 yards with winchester white box (55 grain FMJ), kinda curious what it will do with the black hills 68 grain coming in the mail. I'm assuming it will do 1" and less at 200 yards with match ammo, maybe my specific barrel was just the pick of the litter.



If you can *average* .5 to .6MOA at 200 yds with a rack grade non-floated barrel using generic winchester 55gr FMJ..... you are either:

1. Poor at judging your group sizes. (5 shot groups all flyers count)
2. Talking about your best groups and not what you average all day long. (at least 10 - 5 shot groups)
3. Lucky?
4. Somehow able to make 1-2MOA ammo perform better than most.
5. Are an outstanding shooter and got really lucky with that barrel!

No offense, for real.... that is some great shooting.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 3:32:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 3:33:48 AM EDT by jackal2001]
The barrel will be free floated. I have been shooting since I was 12. Mostly skeet. Was on the rifle team in high school, shot mostly handguns after that. Have a bushy 14.5" now with a TA31 on it and I am getting better and better with it. I can average about a 1" group or better at 50 yards with my bushy with BHBB ammo.

If I can get a 1" group at 100 yards with a 20" and decent ammo I will be really happy.

But the reason I was thinking about going with the bushy barrel is because if I want to feed xm193 down the throat, I can. You probably wouldn't do that out of a SS Match Barrel.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 3:40:45 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 3:58:54 AM EDT
Mostly shooting paper at the range. I won't be hunting with it unless TSHTF.
I will probably swap my bipod around between rifles and put on this when shooting.

I want to put a nice piece of glass on it too. I haven't decided between a leupold or nightforce. maybe a 5-15x.

My eyes start going cross eyed even with my ta31 after awhile.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 4:17:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 4:25:19 AM EDT
I read the whole MOA thing a while ago but I forgot.

is 3MOA 3" group at 300 yards?
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 4:32:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 4:35:59 AM EDT by Tweak]
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 4:42:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By johndoexu:
I have a bushy 20" govt profile (NOT free-floated) that will do 1"-1.25" groups at 200 yards with winchester white box (55 grain FMJ), kinda curious what it will do with the black hills 68 grain coming in the mail. I'm assuming it will do 1" and less at 200 yards with match ammo, maybe my specific barrel was just the pick of the litter.



I'm w/ FALARAK, this is some mighty impressive groups......

Exactly how many rounds make up these groups? 5 shot groups or 10 shot groups?

And your getting these groups at 200 yards using Iron sights or is your rifle scoped?

Are these shot from a benchrested position, offhand standing or prone? (w/ sling or not?)


And this is Q3131 ammo your using?

Mike

Link Posted: 12/14/2005 4:43:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 4:44:57 AM EDT by jackal2001]
I think I would want 1MOA -1.5MOA with very good match ammo. Do you think that could be achieved with a 1/7 gov profile chrome lined barrel that is Scoped and Free Floated?
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:06:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jackal2001:
I think I would want 1MOA -1.5MOA with very good match ammo. Do you think that could be achieved with a 1/7 gov profile chrome lined barrel that is Scoped and Free Floated?



Highly probable.... but not guaranteed.

There is nothing wrong with putting Q3131A down the bore of a match barrel. Ammo type aint gonna hurt your barrel.... unless it was abrasive or steel jacketed and really bad stuff. The really hot ammor will erode the throat at a faster rate.... but I would not have any reservations about buying a WOA stainless barrel and putting NOTHING BUT Q3131A down the tube.

You just arent going to get the level of accuracy out of it with that type of ammo.

If you are talking glass, bench, paper, decent ammo - and you already have a 14.5" carbine - you need to get the better barrel so you will be happy, and remove that from the equation of your groups.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:12:15 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:14:05 AM EDT
I'll see what I can come up with as far as builders. I was going to have this put together by GDS since they have everything in stock. I want a Larue FF 13.2 and LP gas block.
ADCO doesn't offer Larue Products.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:23:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 6:25:03 AM EDT by mr_wilson]


If I can get a group like this utilizing a benchrested position at 100 yards from a 11.5 w/ perm FS, 1/7 twist barrel (non-FF) using an Aimpoint M2 (which covers 4" at 100) pitching BH bluebox 77grn SMKs, I suspect your requirements will be no problem at all......

(btw, that's a CMMG purchased 1/7 11.5" barrel)

Mike

E.T.A. - POA was the guesstimated center of the large square there as the red-dot covers everything else
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 9:08:40 AM EDT
With a standard BFI barrel, I can usually get 1 MOA with good ammo, or 2-3 MOA with M193 or M855 (depending on the brand).
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 12:55:21 PM EDT
I have a Bushmaster HBAR cut to 18" that shoots .75 inch 3 shot groups with Win. Varmint . The barrel is floated and the rifle does have a RRA NM trigger. Maybe I just got lucky but I think Bushmaster barrels are pretty decent. NOT as good as a WOA though on average. All this is w/ a scope. I'm currently working out to 300 yds. and getting under 3" with it. The Fed XM193 and Win white box shoot pretty close to 1" at 100. Maybe better than the average Bushmaster barrel ?
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 1:50:00 PM EDT
Took the plunge and ordered the bushmaster barrel. Thanks for all your help and advice.
Hopefully UPS won't drop a pallet of christmas trees on the new upper I ordered.

Link Posted: 12/15/2005 5:31:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

Originally Posted By johndoexu:
I have a bushy 20" govt profile (NOT free-floated) that will do 1"-1.25" groups at 200 yards with winchester white box (55 grain FMJ), kinda curious what it will do with the black hills 68 grain coming in the mail. I'm assuming it will do 1" and less at 200 yards with match ammo, maybe my specific barrel was just the pick of the litter.



If you can *average* .5 to .6MOA at 200 yds with a rack grade non-floated barrel using generic winchester 55gr FMJ..... you are either:

1. Poor at judging your group sizes. (5 shot groups all flyers count)
2. Talking about your best groups and not what you average all day long. (at least 10 - 5 shot groups)
3. Lucky?
4. Somehow able to make 1-2MOA ammo perform better than most.
5. Are an outstanding shooter and got really lucky with that barrel!

No offense, for real.... that is some great shooting.



Like I said before, this barrel was the pick of the litter. I have NEVER seen a chrome lined barrel that shoots this well. I will gladly take some pics the next time I venture to the range.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 5:35:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mr_wilson:

Originally Posted By johndoexu:
I have a bushy 20" govt profile (NOT free-floated) that will do 1"-1.25" groups at 200 yards with winchester white box (55 grain FMJ), kinda curious what it will do with the black hills 68 grain coming in the mail. I'm assuming it will do 1" and less at 200 yards with match ammo, maybe my specific barrel was just the pick of the litter.



I'm w/ FALARAK, this is some mighty impressive groups......

Exactly how many rounds make up these groups? 5 shot groups or 10 shot groups?

And your getting these groups at 200 yards using Iron sights or is your rifle scoped?

Are these shot from a benchrested position, offhand standing or prone? (w/ sling or not?)


And this is Q3131 ammo your using?

Mike




These are 5 shot groups. These are 200 yard groups. This was done with a 3-9x scope. This was benchrested with a sandbag. This is NOT Q3131 ammo, this is the Walmart Winchester 40 round value pack that happens to be 55 grain FMJ. On the box of ammo the item number is "USA223R1VP". Oh, and this rifle is NOT free-floated.

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