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Posted: 12/9/2005 10:48:53 AM EDT
[#1]
The FN ARM / SCAR receiver is extruded 7000 series aluminum. Dont confuse a process chosen for manufacturability for trying to build on the cheap. And yes, you can extrude 7000 series aluminum, you just can't re-form it around a mandrel (e.g. a hollow extrusion such as a rail system or receiver). An example is the SR-25 upper receiver, which is extruded 7075 T-6, which is then bored through for the bolt channel, etc. Hope this helps, Clint |
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Posted: 12/9/2005 11:59:23 AM EDT
[#2]
+1 |
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Posted: 12/9/2005 10:13:27 PM EDT
[#3]
Got to love their marketing. www.robarm.com/XCR-M16_Comparison.htm
 IMHO I would rather have a multi-position stock than a On-Off folding stock. |
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Posted: 12/10/2005 2:02:33 AM EDT
[#4]
They've got an adaptor for regular M4 stocks.
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Posted: 12/10/2005 2:25:08 AM EDT
[#5]
Great Post Chen, hung hao!
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Posted: 12/10/2005 8:12:16 PM EDT
[#6]
I have been involved with developing and testing the XCR. I just found these postings recently. I can give a little more insight on this development. There are a couple errors in this thread. The upper receiver is not just a 6000 series aluminum like 6061. 6061 is fairly soft. The material used in the upper is proprietary but is closer to 7000 series than 6000 series. It's not right to refer to it as 6000 series. I've see these receivers tested to over 25,000 rounds. These receivers still function perfectly and if refinished would look as new. (I.e., there is very little wear on the receiver because of the bolt system.) Like the AR15 system, the receiver is designed so that it is not overly expensive should it ever be damaged. The lower receiver, like the AR15, is the serialized part. |
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Posted: 12/10/2005 9:04:10 PM EDT
[#7]
Great, another shiny thing to buy....
FN2000 XCR SCAR SIg 500 (dreaming for US production) Im going to go broke. |
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Posted: 12/11/2005 8:58:02 PM EDT
[#8]
tag
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Posted: 12/12/2005 6:22:37 AM EDT
[#9]
You forgot the FN PS90. And I agree, between these items and suppressors I'm gonna be broke. |
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Posted: 12/12/2005 7:59:40 AM EDT
[#10]
great pics and info, thank you.
Look very interesting. |
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Posted: 12/12/2005 5:29:56 PM EDT
[#11]
I'm really on the fence on which one I want more: FN SCAR-L or this.
Kinda leaning towards the FN at this point, but I don't really have any real reason. Decisions, decisions. WIZZO |
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Posted: 12/12/2005 5:31:16 PM EDT
[#12]
Get both. |
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Posted: 12/12/2005 5:57:16 PM EDT
[#13]
I'm a sophomore in college. The only way I could afford to get both wouldn't be legal anywhere except Nevada.  WIZZO |
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Posted: 12/12/2005 6:15:19 PM EDT
[#14]
So what’s the problem? If you hit the streets now by the time the SCAR is available you'll be a senior 2 times over and still have money to spare after you buy both. FMJ's
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Posted: 12/12/2005 6:40:42 PM EDT
[#15]
I have no experience with RobArms products, and I'm NOT knocking their rifles AT ALL, I just want to take this opportunity to go off topic far enough to say...
I hope they build their rifles better than their WEBSITE!!! Even at 1024x768, the left nav menu is jammed under the text on half the pages. I mean, all those really cool firearms to look at, but I can't see 'em for the text in the way! 
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Posted: 12/12/2005 6:48:42 PM EDT
[#16]
Thanks for the post.
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Posted: 12/12/2005 6:53:12 PM EDT
[#17]
Same thing I was told SHOT SHOW 2004.
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Posted: 12/12/2005 7:00:01 PM EDT
[#18]
The shotened magazine well is prooly a mistake, and a bad-trade-off to save a couple of ounces. The AR magazine design needs a long tight magwell to keep the feed angle perpendicular.
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Posted: 12/12/2005 7:09:11 PM EDT
[#19]
I've been waiting awhile for these...
Wasn't there a buncha shrikes at the major shows too a couple years back? That didn't meant they were any more available.... I'm an inch away from taking my name off impact's list though. Feel like a sucker waiting all this time... truthfully, whichever ships first, FS200 or XCR, that's what I'm gettin.... |
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Posted: 12/13/2005 7:42:53 AM EDT
[#20]
Now if they combined that with the ability to fold as well, well we have a winner in my book. |
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Posted: 12/13/2005 9:01:22 AM EDT
[#21]
I'm a student too, Wizzo. The SCAR-L and H are what I'm saving for. |
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Posted: 12/13/2005 9:20:24 AM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 12/13/2005 9:25:31 AM EDT
[#23]
& '05 |
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Posted: 12/13/2005 9:30:56 AM EDT
[#24]
Same here. |
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Posted: 12/13/2005 10:22:11 AM EDT
[#25]
+1!!! Thanks for the pics Lee! |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 2:02:06 PM EDT
[#26]
This is a different rifle, I've seen both, and there are a lot of differences, O' Ignorant One. Are you going to bitch and moan when the SCAR is six months late too? The civilian version of the FN F-2000 was supose to be out like last july, I don't see you bitching about it, either. Face it: All new rifle designs in this market have been 3-6 months late from the original release date AT LEAST. You know what I think it is that makes all you XCR-Bashers hate RobArm? The fact that they're daring to make a rifle better than your black barbie doll. After all, once this comes out, your uber-taktical AR-15 with tactical crayola markings won't be the best gun on your block, and you'll have to watch as someone else shows up at the range with a rifle better than yours. To the rest of us, who view these guns as tools, there is always an improvment, and the XCR looks like it may be just that. We'll wait and see, and if it is, we'll buy them. But of course, to your black-barbie-doll-cult members, that's blaspheme and is punishable by stoning. No one shall question the almighty Eugene Stoner, or his prophet the AR-15, CLP be upon him. But ya'll had better get used to it, because lots of better products are coming out, the SCAR, FS-2000 and XCR are just the first wave. There are products coming in the next ten years that will blow the AR-15 out of the water in terms of the best tactical rifle, and you know it. Your only defense is to lash out at any new product like an angry farmer with a pitchfork chasing after the man who just asked for his daughters hand. |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 2:28:52 PM EDT
[#27]
Damm Man???? Sounds like you hate AR's
I like them all. They all will have me wanting them. Im a gun whore. Just dont bash the AR too much because it is still the King of the Hill right now. |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 2:32:29 PM EDT
[#28]
The bolt catch is located at the front of the trigger guard, but does anyone know how it operates? Do you push it up or down?
Also, Murdoch, I think people have legitimate concerns about new products which they might buy. Saying what you did on an AR-15 forum is a little rude. |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 3:08:11 PM EDT
[#29]
Then why do I own four? With a fifth planned?
I actually feel the same way. I have no intention of selling my ARs if I get an XCR, SCAR, FS-2000, and g-d knows what else. The more the merrier  .
I'm not bashing it. The AR-15 is a great rifle, it's just not perfection. What pisses me off, is these people who can't stand the fact that someone is making something better, so before they even get a chance to put lead downrange with it, they start trashing the new product for any reason that they possibly can. These people are the same ones that burned people at the stake in the dark ages for flying kites. I'll always have a deep hate for them.
The ones I was addressing with my post have made it pretty clear they don't intend on buying an XCR, which is part of the reason their posts anger me.
I care, why? The day I fear to speak my mind is the day I have become a slave. If you had read the last three XCR threads, you'd understand were I'm coming from. There are quite a few people who are bashing this rifle simply because it's threatening their black barbie dolls' status. Maybe you thought that statement was a generalization of AR-15 shooters as a whole, it's not. I'm simply referring to those four or five individuals who are bashing and spreading lies about the XCR simply because it's threatens their current toys. Legitimate criticism, i'm open to. But claims like "It's the same rifle seen at the SHOT show!" are bullshit. Hell I've even had one guy tell me "It's inaccurate!"... How the f%*& would he know that?!? He's never shot the damn thing! |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 4:25:45 PM EDT
[#31]
The XCR appeared to be fine rifle at SAR show. Mr Robinson needs to learn though that every person he talks to is not a retard.
He was in the middle of his pitch to a crowd of people and stated something to the effect that the XCR is produced to MilSpec. When I asked him what the milspec was, he could not reply. Listening to his speech, the uninitiated would've thought that the M16 was the absoulte worst weapon ever produced. Not to mention his comment that, "this is the finest battle rifle ever produced" or "soldiers coming back from Iraq prefer this over the M16." ---Disclaimer: Everything above is paraphrased from memory--- C'mon. I put my preorder in after seeing it at SAR show and I cannot wait to get it. Mr Robinson- continue producing new weapon systems, but please, please, please, let them succeed on their own merit! |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 4:41:41 PM EDT
[#32]
That last statement I'll agree with, and a lot of folks here bashing the XCR should listen to it as well. Let the rifle prove what it can, or can't do. I can't comment on Mr Robinsons statements, I didn't hear them. |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 4:50:38 PM EDT
[#33]
sp0rk, if even 1% of what you said is true.... then they shouldn't even be looked to as an honest company.
I mean come on " this is the finest battle rifle ever produced" Sounds like a car salesman to me.... The damn thing has no data to back up such claims. Do soldiers prefer it to airsoft M16s ? or is this something else pulled from the anal hole ? I've been following this gun for about a year now and I admit it is a pretty sweet looking little package. I've even downloaded all of the videos from their website. It seems like it has some serious potential, but pushing the dates back and giving people blatent false information is way over the top for me. And some people wonder why small companies go under  You can kick my ass, call my mother names and talk bad about my dog, but please don't Oh and I hope that he was referring to his gun's small "FAL" properties when he said " finest battle rifle ever produced"... but even at that he was trying to sugar coat a rifle that should be able to hold its own without referring to a 50 year old battle rifle Check out their website where they explain why it is the best combat rifle : XCR: Best Combat Rifle If you check many things on their site you will see them refer to the AK, FAL & M16... There is nothing wrong with copying other designs and combining them to make a great rifle. The Sig 55X is a perfect example of such plans... as is the Galil.. and for the future : The SCAR I just think that for a superior rifle it sure has a helluva lot of problems. Why else would it be taking so long to come to market ? People are waiting with cash in hand... so there is no way it can be the best combat / battle rifle ever because it is not even a complete gun for sale ! ETA: I am not even an XCR basher. I really like the design and wouldn't mind owning one. However, I am a " will ship next week " company basher !!! STFU and deliver or say nothing at all ! |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 5:08:22 PM EDT
[#34]
Finally, someone with legitimate criticism that kept it reasonable. |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 11:23:08 PM EDT
[#35]
While I don't know for sure, Mr. Robinson's comments referenced above may have stemmed from the USASOC SPR-V trials that preceeded the USSOCOM SCAR testing. The Robinson RAVO2 carbines submitted for the SPR-V trials were well received by the troops who got to use them and became the clear favorite of the end-users who tested the weapons. In fact, most of the Army SF shooters who were involved with the trials stated that they preferred the Robinson to their M4's and went on to comment that they felt the Robinson would have better served them in their recent combat assignments. As the Robinson XCR is an improved version of the earlier SPR-V platform, it should also prove to be a good design. Unfortunately, since the Robinson XCR was was disqualified from SCAR for failure to include the BFA with the weapon, like the HK 416/417, we will never know how the XCR might have fared against the winning FN ARM/SCAR. Please note that the FN ARM Mk16/17 designs have been undergoing continual incremental modification and improvements since winning SCAR; it would not surprise me if the Robinson is going through similar growth and refinement. Hopefully, vendors will one day learn to avoid anouncing products before they are truly ready to ship...
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Posted: 12/29/2005 11:30:54 PM EDT
[#36]
In the end, we have a modularized AK (down to the seen-nowhere-else 3-lug bolt, and such)...
But then again, it's RobArms... The thing will allways be what it started out as, even if you dress it up... The US military will never adopt an AK-based rifle... Too much would be lost... |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 11:32:58 PM EDT
[#37]
We'll see... I'd love to see someone shoot a NM course with the XCR, compared to an equally expensive AR... My money would be on the AR in that case... Untill someone comes up with a truely new and improved operation system, I will continue to maintain that the Stoner action has produced the best semiautomatic rifles available today. Period. The fascination with the AK47 may be 'fun' in the civillian firearms community, but I do NOT want to report in one day & get handed a weapon based on the one rifle that has probably the WORST reputation for accuracy & effective range of anything deployed today... AKs are fun to shoot - I own one... I would NOT want to have to fight a war with one (even a modernized, modularized, tightened up & tricked up one).... We've come along way since the AK, FAL, and M14... It's not time to go backwards... |
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Posted: 12/30/2005 5:26:12 AM EDT
[#38]
Wow- read the robarms propaganda.
How does this rifle open any more easilly for cleaning than an M4? I like to see stuff like that have validity. The folding stock is nice, and deffinitely nice in folding and collapsible. |
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Posted: 12/30/2005 7:30:34 AM EDT
[#39]
i was refering to the company, not the weapon. i would love to see a piston driven rifle replace my gas impinging ar15. even a piston conversion would be great, POF, LW, HK whatever. just get the damn thing to market and stop making empty claims. that's all. |
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Posted: 12/30/2005 12:01:49 PM EDT
[#40]
NM isn't combat.
You have a right to be wrong. But if it's so damned good, how come, in forty years since the stoner system was invented, no other combat rifle design has used it? Hell, even Eugene Stoner's follow-on designs to the AR-15 used piston systems.
What on earth gives you the idea that the XCR is based on the AK? It's piston system has more in common with the FNC.
Funny, since the Marine Corps is re-issuing M14s in Iraq and Afghanistan, due to the M16s shortfalls. |
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Posted: 12/30/2005 12:04:42 PM EDT
[#41]
The XCRs gas piston has more in common with the FNC. And the US military is adopting an FNC based weapon, it's called the SCAR. |
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Posted: 12/30/2005 6:42:28 PM EDT
[#42]
isn't the issue there not so much the platform as it is the caliber ? & isn't the M14 primarily being used in a DMR role ? |
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Posted: 12/30/2005 7:11:28 PM EDT
[#43]
what about the: AUG ? FNC ? F2000 ? SCAR ? Valmet ? HK G36, G3, HK33 HK416 ? AR-70/90 ? Galil ? FAMAS ? SAR-80/SR-88 ? Daewoo K1/K2 ? SIG550/551/552 ? & Various Chinese & Russian rifles ? you seem to be making a broad statement without considering ALL the alternatives that don't use the Ljungman/Stoner system? |
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Posted: 12/30/2005 9:16:12 PM EDT
[#44]
Yes to both. |
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Posted: 1/1/2006 4:03:15 AM EDT
[#45]
I will bet that a 1600 dollar AR that out shoots the XCR will not balance as nicely, be significantly heavier, have to be custom built, and MORE effort to clean and maintain. +1 on all the stuff about the XCR being derived from things OTHER than the AK. |
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Posted: 1/1/2006 4:49:18 AM EDT
[#46]
What the hell, I'll get one (or two)
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Posted: 1/2/2006 1:47:51 PM EDT
[#47]
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Posted: 1/2/2006 4:26:32 PM EDT
[#48]
They need to take the old-fasioned "Galil" folding buttstock off and use the ACE SOCOM folding/telescoping buttstock instead. That would give them a buttstock with most of the same featureas as the SCAR...folding AND telescoping...
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Posted: 1/2/2006 8:14:13 PM EDT
[#49]
I actually like the simplicity and utility of their folding stock design...
...but the SCAR stock is adjustable for LOP and cheek weld. That will be the one to beat. |
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Posted: 1/3/2006 7:38:51 AM EDT
[#50]
Interesting posts. Robinson has read these post and did not say that soldiers coming back from Iraq prefer the XCR over everything else. He did say that some soldiers who have worked with Robarm who did come back from Iraq and Afganistan said the XCR was more controllable and they liked the ergonomics better. Specifically, in doing their double tap drills with the XCR, their last shots were lower then the first because they were used to nudging down the barrel on the second shot of a double tap with the M4. They didn't have to nudge down the barrel of the XCR.
Secondly, the posts on the upper receiver aluminum. The material has nearly the tensile strength and hardness of 7075 T6 but is not that material. At Robinson, they are down to manufacturing the last couple of parts before shipping begins. We should see some actualy rifles appearing this month. It will be interesting to see the posts after they appear. |
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