Quoted: You know what highlander I have all the IMs you sent me agreeing to how I was traeted was wrong when I first sent the upper in now its different.That firing pin should have been in the conversion to begin with and I told paul about it when he got the upper 5 days ago.I have every right to call the guy I talked to a moron because he suggested the 9mm buffer then paul says dont use it at all.After the way I was initially treated I should have stopped at that point or do you forget being the go beteween because it was marianne that called ma on my cell when I was at work cussing me out if you remeber..I think she even apologized through you or was that bull shit too.First my retaing pin was blamed then it was here its the firing pin..the one that should have come with the conversion...oh and it was $550 not $450.Every one here can have their opinion but highlander and Paul knows what went on and how I was treated 10 months ago when I first had this done.I get angry when this is a weapon I stake my life on and problem after problem keeps arising from..I have all the instant messages and you paul are the one that gave me the cell# telling me to call you after hours if things were not going right.Also highlander my upper is only 6 years old its FK marked its not 1985 manufacture.I can cure this right now Paul send me back my money for the conversion and the barrel and thats what will stisfy me if you want to make a mountain of this fine Ill file a complaint with the attorney generals office in my state and thats that.In the beginning highlander you also condemned the treatment I got by that company and marianne..now the tune changes...you know what you said to me in our conversatiuons..now its different kiss his ass as much as you want Im not in buisness with him so I dont have to.And if regular AR pins worked why did paul tell me only the M16 mil-spec pin should be used.Your people gave me the advice to get the 9mm buffer I didnt dream it up.Its good that this is way people who carry these weapons for protection of life on the job are treated.What  ever.Yea you should have a disclaimer saying what works and what does not.The retaining pins stopped bending with the new pin and only after there were 2 diagnoses that were wrong..then it was blame the Bushmaster parts..now its me using the wrong parts when it was suggested by your company to use said parts..the 9mm buffer.And you know what highlander you told me you were billing paul for the flash hider work and thats the least he could do after he sat on my upper for 3 months before telling me he couldnt do the conversion because it was permanent...maybe that info should have been given before you starteed conversions.You told me you were more equpped than Paul to do conversions and that he should let you do them so they can concentrate on their complete uppers.Plenty of mis information to go around...if you dont want to refund my money Paul fine..any body want to buy this upper from let me know..if not Ill take another road..legal one if I have to.And you agreed she did have something to apologize for...the yell;ing,swearing and berating I received from her on my cell phone at work...no one called you a moron just the one at L&W that sugested I use a 9mm buffer,Paul knew that when I talked to him...if 9mm bufferes do that then why didnt he say that then..because he didnt know.He even said fire arms are a black art so no one knew until tetsts were done.And this is my last time talking to you.I didnt say anything concerning you or your company but you feel the need to come running for Paul...Its good he can stand up for himself and hes not spoken for.I understand you have a buisness deal with him so kissing his as is more important than the truth..you know what that truth is and so does he thats all I have to say.People talk about Colts customer service...compared to L&W its paradise at Colt.

I think my IQ has been severely diminnished after reading that.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Any member that purchases this upper will receive the full Limited Lifetime Warranty.   If I get it, it'll more than likely get parted out for spares. I have absolutely zero need for an A2 14.5" HBAR, but a spare carrier and piston assembly would be nice. I can sell you those parts for less.

IM sent...

After reading this thread, my head hurts.  I have to hand it to Paul and Darren.  They went way above and beyond to satisfy this ungrateful #%&*@.  I am a very patient person and this would have severely tested me to my limits.  How many companies out there would have gone through the trouble and expense that Paul and Darren went through trying to satisfy him and not tell him to take a flying leap?

Quoted: Does it lower recoil? All the uppers Darren and I own, plus the units we have test fired there is a difference in felt recoil. Like I stated before the recoil does appear to be less but is different than a gas imp. gun. Add an enidine buffer to the mix and it is almost nonexistant. Ask CaptnCrunch as he saw my 9 yr old daugther shoot my 10.3" in both semi and F/A during a demo we had with him. These are not scientific readings but perceived felt recoil. So actual g-forces generated during recoil are unknown to me, maybe Paul may have some data. As far as Pun's gun is concerned I would need to test fire it back to back with my 14.5 M4 upper.

No crap, his very petite 9 year old could fire FA through it with no problem. I'm 130 lbs at most, and had no problem delivering doubles and triples to the head of a target 25-30M away on FA!!!  

Is it reliable? It is very reliable. I've only had ammo related problems. During the demo shoot we had with CaptnCrunch, he had some Bernal russian ammo with bad primers, the hammer would drop but no bang. The other time the Wolf ammo I was shooting was severly underpowered as it would fire the round, extract, eject, but the carrier group did not travel back far enough to strip the next round. Switched to another lot # of ammo and the problem went away.

Barnaul crappy ammo was the culprit. It sucks, and I knew it sucked, but I bought it because it was cheap. No problems with the rifle at all when using BH 55 grain Blue Box or SA M193. Hell they were shooting Wolf when I got there, and were having no problems.

Is it relatively clean? Have Knob Creek send you some photos of his comparison he did comparing his LW piston upper to a standard gas imp. upper. He has some good photos.

Fouling was minimal. When I say minimal, I mean reduced to almost nothing. The lack of heat transferred to the Bolt and Carrier group was amazing. Cool to the touch after a mag dump.

Let me warn you... Do not fire one of these uppers unless you plan on buying one. Otherwise, you'll be selling plasma, and other unmentionables to get the cash for a L-W upper.

They turned me from a piston skeptic into a full-blown kool-aid drinker in a range session. The products (and the folks with them) were that damn good.

Quoted: Quoted: GreenO, We have several Noveske barrels in stock for the SRT's.  If you want one longer than the 10.5, we can simply get it from Noveske. Got any 12.5s Have you guys been getting my IMs?

Here's something to help you pass the time!!!




LW gas piston set-up w/ Grenadier Precision mid length rail for the barrel guru himself John Noveske

Spec's:
Noveske 12.5" barrel
AAC QD/FH for M4-2000
Noveske Upper
LW gas piston
GP ARM-R midlength
Recontoured front sight/gas block
TR Gun-Kote OD green on barrel and gas block

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: GreenO, We have several Noveske barrels in stock for the SRT's.  If you want one longer than the 10.5, we can simply get it from Noveske. Got any 12.5s Have you guys been getting my IMs? Here's something to help you pass the time!!! www.solisearch.net/ims/pic.php?u=32951QPDp9&i=250507 www.solisearch.net/ims/pic.php?u=32951QPDp9&i=250508 LW gas piston set-up w/ Grenadier Precision mid length rail for the barrel guru himself John Noveske Spec's: Noveske 12.5" barrel AAC QD/FH for M4-2000 Noveske Upper LW gas piston GP ARM-R midlength Recontoured front sight/gas block TR Gun-Kote OD green on barrel and gas block

That's just cruel... And save for the flash suppressor (Surefire) and upper (L-W), identical to what I want

The retaining pin wasnt bent because the upper had the M16 pin in it you sent me..like I said when I first got the conversion it came back with the AR pin...you know the diference right small collar=ARpin...large collar=M16 pin wich is what you sent.You told me it was the right one to use,you never requested the bent pins and I told you what configuration I was running..as far as marianne she called me at my work and went house on me,telling me I cost your company money and she wont forget an ass like me..I never once disrespected her in any way get it straight.So the upper came back with the pin you sent me and I told you the bending stopped with that change thats why it wasnt bent when it reached you...I already replaced those parts with what you sent me.All you had to do was try out an AR..small collar pin to repeat the problem.Im glad through my experience others in my department chose not to get the conversion.You knew 5 days ago what I was running,it was your rep that sugested the 9mm buffer so what ever way you want to play it.I seriously doubt your claims that the marines are field testing the sytem..I see no pics or results from 6 months of suposed use by them..another PR claim I guess....here is a response from highlander on an instant message to me dated......HERE IS ONE COPY OF HIGH LANDERS REPLY TO 6 MONTHS AGO AFTER I WAS TREATED LIKE CRAP 6/16/05 Highlander to me... and I can send you copys of the IMs if you want...I spoke with marianne today and she said when she spoke to you she just lost her head.She said she had no right to talk to you that way.She said she was going to apologize to you.I also told her I would mediate.She said they are proceeding with your conversion.Paul dosent own Lietner&wise.He may have started it but now ICRC owns the company.What he says still carries the weight of a CEO but in actuality I dont think he has much to do with the money end of things.Marianne and Pat do.Dont get me wrong he still runs the company but folks like Marianne mnage alot of the logistics,Pat handles the money side.Beretta is about to buy all remaining shares of LW wich is going to push them into the same league as some of the big boys and solve alot of their company with a big product blues.I will have them send the upper to me when I am done.Marianne was referring to the amount of executive time lost.They lost money on the whole group buy related to delays ect however so did I with the ARMR and there is a value in getting your product to the public no matter how much it costs"to an extent"..you are golden roy.you will be happy once you get your baby back....this was sent to me by 48th highlander Paul so whos fucking lying here...I mad copies of all my conversations to highlander...I didnt know beretta owned a mojority share in your company or the group buy from here cost you money...,any way anyone who wants copies of these conversations including you Paul I will make copies and send them along...I printed them out not ever thinking I might need them...So today highlander sticks up for maryanne and 6 months ago aknowledged her bad behavior ...so is this true does beretta own majority shares in the company and was the group buy here that much a failure...to those wishing for another group buy in highlanders words it didnt go so well..any one who wants copys going back 6 months ago let me know Ill send them..I AM NOT A LIAR but either Paul,Highlander or Marianne is.Like I said I have printed copys of the IMs any one is welcome to them

Actually I am glad this thread happend...it sure reveals a lot about the characters of those
involved in the manufacturing end of the product...and their willingness to go the extra ten
thousand miles...

If I can swing the moolah this next year...I hope to get one...

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: GreenO, We have several Noveske barrels in stock for the SRT's.  If you want one longer than the 10.5, we can simply get it from Noveske. Got any 12.5s Have you guys been getting my IMs? Here's something to help you pass the time!!! www.solisearch.net/ims/pic.php?u=32951QPDp9&i=250507 www.solisearch.net/ims/pic.php?u=32951QPDp9&i=250508 LW gas piston set-up w/ Grenadier Precision mid length rail for the barrel guru himself John Noveske Spec's: Noveske 12.5" barrel AAC QD/FH for M4-2000 Noveske Upper LW gas piston GP ARM-R midlength Recontoured front sight/gas block TR Gun-Kote OD green on barrel and gas block That's just cruel... And save for the flash suppressor (Surefire) and upper (L-W), identical to what I want

Jesse,

I'll be sending you an invoice for the new pants that I must now purchase due to an unforssen negligent discharge.

Pun, I had to run your dam post through Word just to understand it. My advice is to sit down and relax. I'm sure LW will get this settled. Even though the amount of LW gas piston uppers out there seems to be small, I have never seen a negative post until yours. You are the first, so LW and their interent friends are taking it very negatively. I have spoken to Paul personally and have grown to respect him very much. I have no doubt this will be taken care of one way or another.


Pun's last post (Damn if I could understand it in it's original form, the grammar was horrible).

Quoted: "The retaining pin wasn’t bent because the upper had the M16 pin in it you sent me. Like I said when I first got the conversion it came back with the AR pin...you know the difference right small collar=ARpin...large collar=M16 pin which is what you sent. You told me it was the right one to use, you never requested the bent pins and I told you what configuration I was running. As far as marianne she called me at my work and went house on me, telling me I cost your company money and she wont forget an ass like me. I never once disrespected her in any way get it straight. So the upper came back with the pin you sent me and I told you the bending stopped with that change that’s why it wasn’t bent when it reached you...I already replaced those parts with what you sent me. All you had to do was try out an AR small collar pin to repeat the problem. I’m glad through my experience others in my department chose not to get the conversion. You knew 5 days ago what I was running, it was your rep that suggested the 9mm buffer so what ever way you want to play it. I seriously doubt your claims that the marines are field-testing the system. I see no pics or results from 6 months of supposed use by them. Another PR claim I guess.... here is a response from highlander on an instant message to me dated...HERE IS ONE COPY OF HIGH LANDERS REPLY TO 6 MONTHS AGO AFTER I WAS TREATED LIKE CRAP 6/16/05 Highlander to me... and I can send you copies of the IM’s if you want...I spoke with Marianne today and she said when she spoke to you she just lost her head. She said she had no right to talk to you that way. She said she was going to apologize to you. I also told her I would mediate. She said they are proceeding with your conversion. Paul doesn’t own Lietner&wise. He may have started it but now ICRC owns the company. What he says still carries the weight of a CEO but in actuality I don’t think he has much to do with the money end of things. Marianne and Pat do. Don’t get me wrong he still runs the company but folks like Marianne manage allot of the logistics, Pat handles the money side. Beretta is about to buy all remaining shares of LW which is going to push them into the same league as some of the big boys and solve allot of their company with a big product blues. I will have them send the upper to me when I am done. Marianne was referring to the amount of executive time lost. They lost money on the whole group buy related to delays ect however so did I with the ARMR and there is a value in getting your product to the public no matter how much it costs” to an extent”. You are golden Roy. You will be happy once you get your baby back.... this was sent to me by 48th highlander Paul so who’s fucking lying here...I mad copies of all my conversations to highlander...I didn’t know berretta owned a majority share in your company or the group buy from here cost you money...any way anyone who wants copies of these conversations including you Paul I will make copies and send them along...I printed them out not ever thinking I might need them...So today highlander sticks up for Marianne and 6 months ago acknowledged her bad behavior ...so is this true does berretta own majority shares in the company and was the group buy here that much a failure...to those wishing for another group buy in highlanders words it didn’t go so well. Any one who wants copies going back 6 months ago let me know Ill send them. I AM NOT A LIAR but either Paul,Highlander or Marianne is. Like I said I have printed copies of the IM’s any one is welcome to them."

Dude, are you really a cop?
Were you really calling daily for progress reports?
Will you just sell me your upper and shut the he!! up?

Aparently this is why Marianne went off on me from Highjlander to me 6/15/05...Roy,I sent your upper back last week.It was scheduled for delivery at LW on monday.I got an email exemption from ups saying they sent it to the wrong sorting facility and the package was scheduled for re delivery on friday the 17th at wich point they are going to convert it and send it back to me.I already ordered your flash hider and it is on the way.
Every thing is under control and fine here is a tracking# on your upper.1z613ya10393203427 I cut and pasted the exemption below.So its really no ones fault but ups after all they are in Md and Im in TX


Marianne called me very frustrated on monday because she was in a meeting with the CFO and aparently you called and she was pulled from the meeting"I never asked she be pulled the receptionist di that on his own"She wanted to know when we shipped the upper and I told her there was a delivery exemption on the package.They will turn it around imediately on monday and send it back.The only thing I can see in them delaying it further is them wanting to test fire it wich they only do once a week.All I can say about Marianne is that she must have been very frustrated wich is why she told you what she did.....so I got yelled because she was having a bad day.I never asked she be pulled from the meeting and thats when she went off on me....so you know what highjlander you stick up for her then but now its different.If this wasnt true Paul how would I know about beretta and that you dont own the company anymore...unless highlander lied to you as well...IU can send you copys Paul of these conversations.Maybe you didnt know what was said paul 6 months ago but like I said Ill send you the originals and make myself copies.

Yea I was calling every day because it took 5 months for the conversion and there was delay after delay after delay and I have the IMs to prove it.if you want the upper its $750 and at that Im still out $200...maybe every one should inquire weather Paul or Beretta owns L&W now...maybe thats the problem.

Listen read the copys of the IMs from highlander to me..he defends Marianne today but 6 months ago he aknowledged how she treated me and even spoke to her about it..any one who wants copys including Paul can have them.Maybe he wasnt aware of what Highlander and Marianne were saying or maybe Highlander was playing 2 ends in the middle.Im pissed off because I was condemned by Paul and Highlander for being mean to Marianne when it was the other way around.What highlander recently said doesent  match with what he said to me 6 months ago concerning her and Pauls or berettas company...so who are the liars not me.The grammar sucks cause Im pissed and copying the IMs as they were written to me.

I am still seeing this....

After reading this thread all day, I got frustrated and I went out in the garage and sucked on my cars tailpipe.  Now I'm EXHAUSTed..............................................





.................................no pun intended.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: GreenO, We have several Noveske barrels in stock for the SRT's.  If you want one longer than the 10.5, we can simply get it from Noveske. Got any 12.5s Have you guys been getting my IMs? Here's something to help you pass the time!!! www.solisearch.net/ims/pic.php?u=32951QPDp9&i=250507 www.solisearch.net/ims/pic.php?u=32951QPDp9&i=250508 LW gas piston set-up w/ Grenadier Precision mid length rail for the barrel guru himself John Noveske Spec's: Noveske 12.5" barrel AAC QD/FH for M4-2000 Noveske Upper LW gas piston GP ARM-R midlength Recontoured front sight/gas block TR Gun-Kote OD green on barrel and gas block

so when my conversion gets back and if all goes well as i suspect it will, i plan on sending in another upper for conversion. on the next one i would like the longer rail like the one in this pic.

whats the deal with the recontoured gas block? is that something LW will take care of or do i need to buy a special one before sending in?

BTW, paul and chris- it was a pleasure talking to you today on the phone about my conversion.
scott in tucson.

Quoted: Quoted: The Grenadier Precision ARM-R, and the ARMS SIR are two that will work without any modification.  As we have not modified any others, it is difficult to say whether they can be made to work, although I had a good meeting with Mark LaRue and it is likely that his may.   Ok thanks.  Keep us up to date as to what may work in the future (including the LaRue, etc.) Also, from another thread you or another member mentioned that a LaRue gas block could be made to work with the addition of a taper pin or something?  What exactly is involved with that? Thanks.

The LaRue gas block is reamed with a step reamer to form a shoulder for the gas nozzle which is inserted into the hole that normally accepts the gas tube. Then a small pocket with a flat bottom is milled into the side of the gas block. Then the tapered pin hole is drilled centered within the pocket from right to left. Here is a photo link to Noveske's site. I do it the same way.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The Grenadier Precision ARM-R, and the ARMS SIR are two that will work without any modification.  As we have not modified any others, it is difficult to say whether they can be made to work, although I had a good meeting with Mark LaRue and it is likely that his may.   Ok thanks.  Keep us up to date as to what may work in the future (including the LaRue, etc.) Also, from another thread you or another member mentioned that a LaRue gas block could be made to work with the addition of a taper pin or something?  What exactly is involved with that? Thanks. The LaRue gas block is reamed with a step reamer to form a shoulder for the gas nozzle which is inserted into the hole that normally accepts the gas tube. Then a small pocket with a flat bottom is milled into the side of the gas block. Then the tapered pin hole is drilled centered within the pocket from right to left. Here is a photo link to Noveske's site. I do it the same way. www.jnrifleworks.com/images/pinnedblock_.jpg

What Noveske barrels do ya'll have in stock at the moment?

Id call you an asshole too if you called me everyday...

I am into the 4th month of waiting on my custom barrel for my LW upper and my ACB bolt was converted into a moon rock by the plater. (Not LW)  I am sure I will wait over 5 or even 6 months for my upper by the time its all said and done.  I have not called anyone on the cell phone.  Custom items take time. This is why I waited till LW was up and rnning with the conversions before I got to making my order.  You should have expected a 5 month+ wait.  I know I did.  However things are moving faster over there everyday.  I bet the purchase of a factory new upper direct from LW would take less than 2-3 months at this point.

Also that pic of the pinned block needs the underscore removed to ge the full size pic to display.

So this will be the last thing I have to say,any one associated with L&W how would I know about

Baretta owning stock in the company
ICRC owns the company
a guy named Pat who runs the money end of the company
That the group buy failed and L&W lost money on the group buy because of delays

yes I called every other day after 4 months went buy and was told the delays were due to the company filling an order for 250 conversions for Marine Recon..of wich to date after 6 months there are no pictures or after action reports on how the marines fared with this system.To 48th Highlander maybe you thought I delted the IMs you sent..and I did after I made copies.Today you acuse me of lying,misrepresenting and verbaly assaulting Marianne,Paul stated she was sticking up for herself but going off on me because she was called from a metting and then telling you she had no right to speak to me that way..conversations from 6 months ago but today its a different story..if any of the above is true all of you ask yourselves how would I know..ask highlander and my offer still stands and to you as well Paul.I will send copies of the conversations to anyone who wants to see that Im not a Liar.The proof is in the conversations.I understand most of the people who piled on me are close friends of Paul..and I actually appreciate that..loyalty and support I cannot fault any of you for that ...but Highlander is a Liar,what he says today is not his tune from 6 months ago and that I do not respect.If you cant remeber what you said to me Highlander I can send copys to you as well to refresh your memory.In any event hope fully I can sell it.Im not going to complain to the AG Paul..but realize this people yopu think you can trust...you cant.I dont know you personally or anyone associated with you but somehow I know about dealings with in your comapny..I didnt dream it up that info was given freely by Highlander a man who 6 months ago condemned Mariannes behavior but now supports her..anyway the proof is in my hands for anyone who wants it.I will mail copies at my own expense to anyone who wants to know what highlander told me 6 months ago and changed his story about today.As he put it he wanted to be the mediator and took it upon himself.I thought he was a truthfull honorable man..I was wrong.Some one is a Liar here and its not me.Maybe $600 dosent matter to some but risking myself for people I dont know and suporting a family and a house...the $600 was a big chunk for me to spend..and to get piss poor attitudes like I did something wrong because some company couldnt hold up their end of the deal on delivery time..well thats not my fault.When I was told delays were from the Marines getting their uppers first I had no problem with that.Our fighting men abroad come first.But now with no evidence to support the claims the Marines had a larger order and were field testing it is evidently a lie in itself..its what made me want the conversion in the first place.If it was good enough for the Corps it was good enough for me.To date there is no p[roof the Marines are even using it.So Paul send the upper back Ill either keep it or sell it..thanks for your time....Roy

Guess what.  Many of us have been waiting a very long time for our product too.

Many of us have never called LW or GP after hours.

I have called LW 2 times in 9 months returning calls.

Marianne has been very nice to me both times I've talked to her and in fact called me at 8pm one night.

I was told several weeks ago that I was next in line for my upper and somehow I got skipped (long story).

I've sent a total of 3 emails to LW concerning this.

It's hard to hear about uppers and rifles being shipped off when you know you should have been next in line.

If anyone should be bitter it should be me, but I'm not, I know mistakes have been made but we are all human. Maybe I would get my product sooner If I became a thorn in someones side but that's not how I operate (that's not how most of us operate). I try to live by something called the golden rule.


For every pun, there are 10 regular people waiting patiently for the uppers/rifles.

These things ARE worth it.

And afder calling me an asshole id tell you to go fuck yourself.I called every 3 or 4 days after waiting 4 months and no one returning emails or phone calls...like I said I have the proof for anyone who wants to see.And with an attitude like that your buisness wouldnt last too long.I challenge anyone from L&W to post proof in the form of pics or after action reports that the Marines got what the company said they got..250 conversions and that was the blame for the delays..is it true or not..lets see the proof.Or is it like highlander said...Paul really dosent own the company..but ICRC does with beretta as a major share holder.Highlander is a rat bastard Liar and Paul should watch his back with a friend who tells strangers his friends buisness dealings.Well when its a weapon for the job 5 months is too long when 3 is promised and the excuse on delivery given is an order for the Marines when there is no proof the Marines ever got any upper conversions at all.When lies support Lies then its a problem.Paul gave me his number and told me to call anytime there is ever a problem...I wasnt calling the company number but the personal number he gave me...why would he do that and then bitch about.If he didnt want to be bothered then he shouldnt have said call anytime with any problem another case of people not meaning what they say.seems like no one wants to deal with any real points here..what ever I guess you think if you suck a little ass you will get your stuff sooner as well.I think its time to give the ARES drop in system a try...at least if I lose there its only $400 and not $600,By the way everything highlander did with my flash hider and charged Paul for I offered to pay for but Paul wanted to pick up the tab for the way Marianne treated me and the 5 month delay.Just because the ywere nice to you dosent mean they werent rude to others.Id like to here from the members who cancelled their orders making L&W lose money on the group buy as Highlander said.

"I got involved with GreenO the same way telling him not to spend hundreds on an MRP until we have done a conversion on one. I think it pissed him off a bit, and apologised, but I don't want him spending the bucks until we have actually converted the MRP we have in stock. It requires some custom fixturing etc. I told him a volvo COULD be converted, but the question is, are you left with a decent product at the end of the day, or did you spend a bunch of money trying to fit parts together that were not designed for one another. Do you need to mill off so much material from the MRP that is essentially becomes weak? We have not fully answered that question yet. Consumer advocate. If he is mad at me for giving my opinion, so be it. He would be enraged if he spends $2000+ on something that is less than optimal."


Actually someone from LW told me it could be done and I immediately bought an MRP upper, while I was still in Iraq back in September via the internet and paypal, and then found later from you that it could not be done feasably or in a way in which the rail would still have integrity.  That was why I was pissed off-- because my barrel was canabalized for parts to be used on a ABS SS 1/7 build for this project so I had $2000+ in this project before I found out it couldn't be completed.  I wanted it not to be so-- I don't think that is all that illogical as it half-way fits your own definition.

I have now talked to enough people to believe that yes the product is a quality product and probably the most advanced piston operated carbine system in the world.  I also think one of the grenadier employees might actually be putting me on the road to buying one so this is probably as good an outcome as can be expected.  I will just have to shoot the upper- confirm it is better than DI and find a way to sell my MRP upper when my second ABS barrel is finally completed in mid January.  48thhighlanders comment above leads me to believe misscomunication has something to do with his not understanding my situation after a decent number of im's back and forth

If those things are true which I have no reason to believe they are not-- I do think that Pun is just the victim of an unfortunate circumstance involving his use of a product that did not have known side-effects and his not being able to properly diagnose the problem; something that obviously took you guys a considerable amount of time to figure out as well.  I do feel that re-adonizing an upper is above and beyond [normally a $40 cost minimum] and if his system really does function properly when he throws in an H-buffer or Endine buffer he will probably be happy and possibly apologetic.  I know I would be both to have my several month problem solved [especially in this case as that would not be a manufacturing defect but a troubleshooting issue].                                          Obviously there may or may not be more than meets the eye with his issue though as he really does seem completely torqued off

Y'know what... I think I'll just stick to buying an upper from GP/LW, and get my spares from L-W.

It's just not worth the hassle it'd create...

Back on topic:

From what I observed, the LW system solved several problems with DI guns.

1. Heat

Having fired a good many DI guns, I was amazed to see that after a mag dump the BCG of the LW gun was cool to the touch. Imagine how much longer your extractor springs would last if not subject to the high levels of heat present in the DI ARs.

2. Blowback

Firing a DI gun back to back with a LW gun was enlightening. Until I fired the LW piston guns, the smell had never bothered me. After firing abotu 10 mags through the LW guns, then switching to impingement... Well, as I said in my other thread, the DI upper gave me the sensation of having a cat pee up my nose. With the LW upper, there was no blowback of gasses or debris to speak of. I LOVED it.

3. Fouling

Okay, maybe fouling isn't such a huge problem with DI guns... But it's nice to not have so much of it with the LW. Having had an OOB KB thanks to a firing pin stuck thanks to fouling, I can truly appreciate the cleanliness of the LW system.

3. Carrier Tilt

The LW CQBR was akin to firing an M16A2. No choppiness was present at all. Smooth cycling and no appreciable muzzle rise. Speaking of that...

4. Muzzle Rise

There wasn't any, even with the CQBR. Muzzle rise was close to that of a .22LR conversion in an HB AR. There just wasn't any.

So you ask, why is the LW better than any of the other piston systems out there?

4 reasons.

1. No extra weight added to the system.
2. Mechanical key angled to prevent carrier tilt.
3. Standard flattop height.
4. Parts commonality. You can use a standard upper and standard front and rear sights. Hell, you can even switch back and forth between DI and Piston Op by trading out bolt carriers and the piston parts for a gastube. How cool is that?

Quoted: So you ask, why is the LW better than any of the other piston systems out there? 4 reasons. 1. No extra weight added to the system. 2. Mechanical key angled to prevent carrier tilt. 3. Standard flattop height. 4. Parts commonality. You can use a standard upper and standard front and rear sights. Hell, you can even switch back and forth between DI and Piston Op by trading out bolt carriers and the piston parts for a gastube. How cool is that?

How much experience do you have with the other gas piston options?

Quoted: So this will be the last thing I have to say,any one associated with L&W how would I know about Baretta owning stock in the company ICRC owns the company a guy named Pat who runs the money end of the company That the group buy failed and L&W lost money on the group buy because of delays

Tony Baretta owns stock in lots of firearms related companies.  In fact, he used one of his companies guns to kill his wife.  The gun was not a Beretta.



I seriously doubt the International Committee of the Red Cross (aka ICRC) own any part of a gun company.  I would have to see that to believe it.

Never mind, I found this article on the internet

"Integrated Concepts and Research Corp. (ICRC), a subsidiary of Koniag, Inc., secured four government contracts in the past three months that total over $100 million in value.

ICRC provides engineering and technical services....... The third is a $20 million contract to provide security weapons to the US Coast Guard, which is done through an alliance ICRC has with the Leitner-Wise Rifle Company......."  

In fact, if you type in Leitner-Wise, mentions of ICRC and it's owner, Koniag come up repeatedly.  Even the CEO of LW (maybe former), Dennis Metrokin was mentioned. I even came across articles mentioning American Security Resources Corp, ASRC, as having had an interest in LWRC as well.  Another company commonly mistaken as a maker of HVLP (high volume low pressure) paint sprayers has also appeared to be related to LWRC in somewhat odd ways to me.  None of this is outside the public forum.

As far as a guy named Pat running the money end of things.  Most companies with any sort of management structure have a position filled by the likes of a guy named Pat...it's called a CFO or Chief Financial Officer.  As the position may imply, money issues are a primary responsibility.

The Group Buy Failed?  Shit, most large group buys are a cluster fuck for one reason or another, especially when it involves something new.  Some very prominent suppliers on this boards started off here with long delayed and frustrating group buys.  In fact, their experiences were so positive that they've never done them again.

Quoted: Quoted: So you ask, why is the LW better than any of the other piston systems out there? 4 reasons. 1. No extra weight added to the system. 2. Mechanical key angled to prevent carrier tilt. 3. Standard flattop height. 4. Parts commonality. You can use a standard upper and standard front and rear sights. Hell, you can even switch back and forth between DI and Piston Op by trading out bolt carriers and the piston parts for a gastube. How cool is that? How much experience do you have with the other gas piston options?

POF, Rhino, and another that the name escapes me, but I've got a lot of time with the G36, which the 416 is derived from. If the 416 wasn't so damned heavy, and it had a standard flattop I'd be a lot more interested. That, and if I could actually buy one...

But a lot of people far more qualified than me like it, so I'm not downing it in any way. At the time being, the only thing HK is doing that interests me is the HK45, and maybe the P2000. I haven't handled either, but I'd sure as heck like to.

Even if I could get an HK, I think I'd still pick the LW. It does everything I want an upper to do, and nothing that I wouldn't want it to do.

Group buys starting off new products...Magpul comes to mind... I waited on that first M93 for damn near a year it seemed.  Rich even offered to loan me an M4 Colt stock till my experimental stock arrived.  Sounds like pun got the same type of quality service.  His entire problem should have been private and not posted on an open forum until the situation was resolved.  I remember reading the first of those posts and wondering why this was being aired publicly.  I can understand someone being upset because they were called an asshole... even if they are one.  But the repeated posts with arrogant tone demanding of speedy relies on the forum was uncalled for in my mind, or at least I thought so as I read them.  My actual mental dialouge was "Damn what an ass"

I dont think 48th has lied at all.  I think it is very clear from reading all the stuff involved 48th went above and beyond for a customer who then spewed a bunch of unneeded crap all over the internet.  Both accounts match.  As for the USMC testing... if Pat had not been there while actual testing was being done there would be no evidence of the Surefire suppressor testing they did either.  There are no documents that can be presented and for someone to accuse a company of fabricating something like that is just way over the edge IMO.  Things like that destroy companies.  If  lie like that ever came out it would destroy the rep of that company for months if not years.  I say call the USMC yourself if you want to know so bad and report your findings.

pun, have you tried the rifle with the new buffer yet?  Why would you have not puchased the LW conversion if you knew it would not take a 9mm buffer?  Do you use the same lower on a 9mm upper or something at work which makes this a needed item?  Or is this more of a situation where you believed that a 9mm buffer reduces recoil and even if the LW + H buffer recoiled less than DI + 9mm buffer you want to cry and say you dont want the LW because it reoils more than your imaginary situation you envisioned with a 9mm buffer when in fact it recoils less?  The latter seems to be the explanation at this point.

From your posts and situation I now know that the MGI buffer may not work in my LW rifle.  Thats good info that should be posted.  Thankfully MGI has a money back gurantee and a friend is getting an Enidine.  I can run both of the buffers and seew hich one works best and go with that one with no financial risk.  You however seem to be out the cost of the 9mm buffer... then again you are getting an H buffer for free and can sell the 9mm buffer on the EE.  Sounds like once again you got the best of the deal.  I personally think you deserved the free H buffer because  LW employee reccomended it and it was an untested item.  I dont see what you have to complain about really... these are experimental items that will have to have kinks worked out.  You should have expected that.

Quoted: Group buys starting off new products...Magpul comes to mind... I waited on that first M93 for damn near a year it seemed.  Rich even offered to loan me an M4 Colt stock till my experimental stock arrived.  Sounds like pun got the same type of quality service.  His entire problem should have been private and not posted on an open forum until the situation was resolved.  I remember reading the first of those posts and wondering why this was being aired publicly.  I can understand someone being upset because they were called an asshole... even if they are one.  But the repeated posts with arrogant tone demanding of speedy relies on the forum was uncalled for in my mind, or at least I thought so as I read them.  My actual mental dialouge was "Damn what an ass" I dont think 48th has lied at all.  I think it is very clear from reading all the stuff involved 48th went above and beyond for a customer who then spewed a bunch of unneeded crap all over the internet.  Both accounts match.  As for the USMC testing... if Pat had not been there while actual testing was being done there would be no evidence of the Surefire suppressor testing they did either.  There are no documents that can be presented and for someone to accuse a company of fabricating something like that is just way over the edge IMO.  Things like that destroy companies.  If  lie like that ever came out it would destroy the rep of that company for months if not years.  I say call the USMC yourself if you want to know so bad and report your findings. pun, have you tried the rifle with the new buffer yet?  Why would you have not puchased the LW conversion if you knew it would not take a 9mm buffer?  Do you use the same lower on a 9mm upper or something at work which makes this a needed item?  Or is this more of a situation where you believed that a 9mm buffer reduces recoil and even if the LW + H buffer recoiled less than DI + 9mm buffer you want to cry and say you dont want the LW because it reoils more than your imaginary situation you envisioned with a 9mm buffer when in fact it recoils less?  The latter seems to be the explanation at this point. From your posts and situation I now know that the MGI buffer may not work in my LW rifle.  Thats good info that should be posted.  Thankfully MGI has a money back gurantee and a friend is getting an Enidine.  I can run both of the buffers and seew hich one works best and go with that one with no financial risk.  You however seem to be out the cost of the 9mm buffer... then again you are getting an H buffer for free and can sell the 9mm buffer on the EE.  Sounds like once again you got the best of the deal.  I personally think you deserved the free H buffer because  LW employee reccomended it and it was an untested item.  I dont see what you have to complain about really... these are experimental items that will have to have kinks worked out.  You should have expected that.

Ding Ding....right on DevL.  I, too, waited so long for my M93 that I forgot I ordered one.

Shit I have like 5 band new H-buffers lieing around -- I don't even know where I got them all.  

I also bought the MGI RRB and hypothysized the same thing.  -- probably not going to work with this but it should work great in my 16inch SPR.  I guess I have to get an Endine buffer too.  

not having to spend an hour cleaning the crap out of all the BC group parts would be really cool.

Please relax Roy.    I have no idea why you are so angry and anxious.  I said I was done with you, but ..........I am telling you not to blow a gasket.  How is it worth it?

Changing the focus of the topic to what I said about Marianne is also not really a valid tactic.  She bit back.  You did not like it.  Get a set and take responsibility.

Yes, I did tell you that you that Marianne should not have spoke to you in that way.  Likely so did Paul.  She should have swallowed it and put someone else on the line.   I stick by that to this day.  I didn't have the other side of the story however.  Marianne even expressed regret.  It was water under the bridge.  I had subsequently found out  your pattern of behavior.  No customer service rep should react to this, but we are all human.  She got angry after repeated conversations and was not sure how to make it stop by firing you as a customer.  Paul refused to fire you, and he we are.  Good deeds.....

Manipulation, either by using the internet, or by trying to play folks off one another does not work.  As for kissing Paul's ass.  Well, I don't really need to.  This is symbiosis at its best.  GP is small time, love our craft, and are having fun apart from this kind of thing.  

Lets face it, you used me for free shit and leverage after I made a good will gestusre, and now call me a moron.  Now you mock me and try to bring me to your level.  I offered to mediate in your interest as a CONSUMER ADVOCATE.  I tried to find common ground after your "experience." We even shipped before you paid, and subsequently refused to pay.  Then you try to discredit us with our own good deeds.  

Yes, the group buy has been a goat$%^.  I will never be involved again.  I know exactly why it has been.  There are many factors.  None worth explaining to you, a disinterested party.  12 uppers was the goal for the group buy.  200 later.........

Here is an exerpt from a post I made 7/13/05 at which time, I felt a little upset.

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=121&t=249960&page=12

One jerk off took delivery of his upper and refused to pay because "what he went through with the wait." Considering he was out no money, I wonder exactly what it was "he went through." Now he risks the wrath of god because he has the gall to take delivery and not pay. Not a good idea as he is an LEO and billed the purchase as a department buy to get an LE discount. I was in the loop on this one, did a bunch of free shit for the guy until 230 am wed night, overnighted it to him to take delivery Friday and he has the lack of honor to pay his bill to LW. I hope he comes to his senses. So, my point is, it goes both ways.

I have not been in your fan club since but I don't hold a grudge. Shortly after I found out the true breadth of what had been going on.   I gave you the benefit of the doubt, and you stuck your foot up my #$%.  I even spent more time with your upper this week in the shop and on the range to find out there was nothing wrong despite the feeling that we would regret it.  

What as a "MORON" am I supposed to do?  I took zero of your money.  You have a chunk of mine on your rifle.  What is LW supposed to do?  A rifle is consumable.  It still has value as it is used, but a diminishing value.  The LW rifles have a lifetime warranty.  They have instantly responded to your bent firing pin retaining pin issue on several levels.  They sorted out the cause, and are ready to return it to you.  They even offered you more free stuff.  Now you don't want it and want a refund?  Any you will call the AG?  For what?

Simmer, be angry.  Call people names.  Threaten.  Dedicate yourself to revenge.  Try to bring the house down.  Try and play people off one another.  Manipulate.  Complain.  Question honest peoples integrity.  It does not serve you in the long run.  You may get your free plane ticket, meal or hotel room from time to time.  You will die lonely with no respect for yourself or respect from others.  Drop it.  Sell it.  walk and old lady across the street.

Dileas Gu Brath and By Dand.

Signed, MORON, RAT BASTARD, etc. etc.

I have not read through every post in this thread because I got kinda sick of the whining....  

BUT, let me add my two bits by saying that so far I LOVE my LW upper that Jesse of Grenadier Precision built for me!  Also, I have had nothing but wonderful experiences dealing with Jesse and Darren!!!  They are both firmly in the "helluva nice guy" category, and anybody that says otherwise is probably just a plain old prick.   You'd have to work at it to not get along with those guys.

Same here. I'm thrilled with my 10 inch upper pictured below


I've run both an the Enidine Buffer and MGI buffer on full auto with no problems. My first upper had a loose FSB and Darren replaced it overnight. His customer service was first class. LW has what I think is the best gas system out there and doesn't have HK-itis (anti-nonmil). I plan on getting another upper as soon as Darren can put it together. I guess that's my best endorsement, I'm a very happy customer.

Oh and AShooter, sweet rig! That's very similar to what I want, but with a 14.5 bbl.

Quoted: Oh and AShooter, sweet rig! That's very similar to what I want, but with a 14.5 bbl.

Thank you.

I have a Colt upper that needs a conversion, and then I have that SBR just like yours in my "to-do" list.....   sadly, my finances just won't cooperate!   I'm all spent out after putting together the one in the pic above.  

Oh well - gives me something to look forward to.

Quoted: And afder calling me an asshole id tell you to go fuck yourself.I called every 3 or 4 days after waiting 4 months and no one returning emails or phone calls...like I said I have the proof for anyone who wants to see.And with an attitude like that your buisness wouldnt last too long.I challenge anyone from L&W to post proof in the form of pics or after action reports that the Marines got what the company said they got..250 conversions and that was the blame for the delays..is it true or not..lets see the proof.Or is it like highlander said...Paul really dosent own the company..but ICRC does with beretta as a major share holder.Highlander is a rat bastard Liar and Paul should watch his back with a friend who tells strangers his friends buisness dealings.Well when its a weapon for the job 5 months is too long when 3 is promised and the excuse on delivery given is an order for the Marines when there is no proof the Marines ever got any upper conversions at all.When lies support Lies then its a problem.Paul gave me his number and told me to call anytime there is ever a problem...I wasnt calling the company number but the personal number he gave me...why would he do that and then bitch about.If he didnt want to be bothered then he shouldnt have said call anytime with any problem another case of people not meaning what they say.seems like no one wants to deal with any real points here..what ever I guess you think if you suck a little ass you will get your stuff sooner as well.I think its time to give the ARES drop in system a try...at least if I lose there its only $400 and not $600,By the way everything highlander did with my flash hider and charged Paul for I offered to pay for but Paul wanted to pick up the tab for the way Marianne treated me and the 5 month delay.Just because the ywere nice to you dosent mean they werent rude to others.Id like to here from the members who cancelled their orders making L&W lose money on the group buy as Highlander said.

Damn son.....

It's called line breaks and forming paragraphs....

I know monkeys at the zoo that can form more coherent sentences than you can.

Did you even take English in school??

pun is a perfect example of one of the reasons why I have no interest in owning my own business. I have no patience for people like him. The scary part is he's driving around with a badge and gun

Thanks by the way for posting IM's out of context while I tried to answer your questions about the group buy.

In context, the point was:  IF OTHER INTERESTED PARTIES WERE NOT INVOLVED PAUL LW WOULD HAVE A LARGER PRODUCTION STAFF.  There were several things on the table as are always on the table and working in a corporate environment, your vision is not always the one the board goes with.  Some of folks courting LW could have been a means to an end.

Either right over your head or you...................?  I intervened on your behalf Roy.  Please look up Borderline Personality Disorder.

I hope this helps.

Signed, Moe-Ron, Rat Bastage.

To Paul you told me a regualr small collar pin is not to be used only use Mil-spec firing pins.You told me the reason for the bending is because I was usuing the wrong one.So my question was then why didnt the mil-spec pin come with the conversion.

To Highlander go back and read again..I refered to moron as whoever the male customer service rep from L&W who answered the phone when I called to see if the upper reached you..he was the guy who sugested the 9mm buffer to tame the kick.

You say highlander Im taking IMs out of context I have the IMs to prove Im not.I used you for nothing Paul was billed for your work after I offered both of you to pay for said work.Paul told me he was taking care of it because of how I was treated...I offered to pay but you said "no problem Paul told me to bill him...so I used you for nothing.Even after Paul sent me the new retaining pin it bent..thats when he said what type of pin are you using.I told him an AR firing pin wich has a smaller collar.He said use only mil-spec pins so I assumed he meant an M16 firing pin wich is what he sent..with a larger collar.There is a conversation on his industry forum that will atest to that.In any event Im done send me back my upper and Ill just eat the cost of everything put into it.Better information on what should be used with the system and what shouldnt would have went a long way and obviously Im not the only one to get mis information from one of your service reps.In any event if you had more control over the company and dealt with situations imediately we would not be at this point.Im not rich I had to scrape to get what I thought was the best inovation in AR function yet.But no I was made to feel like it was me and the parts I was using one of wich the firing pin should have already been ther.You say both pins work but on your forum you told me to use only mil-spec pins..that means an M16 pin to me wich is what you sent.So I only followed the advise I got and now its turned around here.By the group buy failure Im sure Im not the only one that got a raw deal.Every one who says I should have expected some bugs in the sytem why would I when L&Ws PR said it was extensively tested..I guess that was bull shit to.Issues like proper buffers wich you told me only use a standard or Hbuffer or firing pins I would think would have been discovered through extensive testing.People who said call the Marines myself why should I.I didnt make the claims that 250 uppers were sent to them for tetsing..the reason I was given for the extreme delays.Delays are one thing ,promising 3 months then waiting 51/2 months is a different story.iIn the beginning when you said you couldnt do the conversion after 31/2 months of sitting on the upper it was you who offered free ammo and an apology for the wait.If you felt I was treated correctly why make the offer at all?In any event send it back and Ill follow the newly aquired info to see if it runs right.Highlander you know are conversations and what was said,I have the proof.If you wnat Ill send you copies to refresh your memory..I didnt call you a moron so go back and read it again.To the asshole who said "I cant beleive he has a badge and a gun"there are many of gratefull strangers over the years who are glad I did at the time.I seen societys best and worst so dont judge me.Before that I saw the best and worst in other shitholes on this planet so dont judge me until you have walked the walk..you have the talk down but not the walk.Sorry I did call you a moron rat bastard highlander...too bad you could never live up to the honor of the regiment you take your name from...the insult still stands.Personality disorder...you have a cant tell the truth disorder.

And this, boys and girls, is what we call "functional illiteracy".

I think he has a semi valid point or two in there....  but it's hard to tell.  

Quoted: And this, boys and girls, is what we call "functional illiteracy". I think he has a semi valid point or two in there....  but it's hard to tell.

There are a few points in there but it is hard to make any sense of what he is writing.  It may be time to brush up on English...  

Spooky

Quoted: To Paul you told me a regualr small collar pin is not to be used only use Mil-spec firing pins.You told me the reason for the bending is because I was usuing the wrong one.So my question was then why didnt the mil-spec pin come with the conversion. To Highlander go back and read again..I refered to moron as whoever the male customer service rep from L&W who answered the phone when I called to see if the upper reached you..he was the guy who sugested the 9mm buffer to tame the kick. You say highlander Im taking IMs out of context I have the IMs to prove Im not.I used you for nothing Paul was billed for your work after I offered both of you to pay for said work.Paul told me he was taking care of it because of how I was treated...I offered to pay but you said "no problem Paul told me to bill him...so I used you for nothing.Even after Paul sent me the new retaining pin it bent..thats when he said what type of pin are you using.I told him an AR firing pin wich has a smaller collar.He said use only mil-spec pins so I assumed he meant an M16 firing pin wich is what he sent..with a larger collar.There is a conversation on his industry forum that will atest to that.In any event Im done send me back my upper and Ill just eat the cost of everything put into it.Better information on what should be used with the system and what shouldnt would have went a long way and obviously Im not the only one to get mis information from one of your service reps.In any event if you had more control over the company and dealt with situations imediately we would not be at this point.Im not rich I had to scrape to get what I thought was the best inovation in AR function yet.But no I was made to feel like it was me and the parts I was using one of wich the firing pin should have already been ther.You say both pins work but on your forum you told me to use only mil-spec pins..that means an M16 pin to me wich is what you sent.So I only followed the advise I got and now its turned around here.By the group buy failure Im sure Im not the only one that got a raw deal.Every one who says I should have expected some bugs in the sytem why would I when L&Ws PR said it was extensively tested..I guess that was bull shit to.Issues like proper buffers wich you told me only use a standard or Hbuffer or firing pins I would think would have been discovered through extensive testing.People who said call the Marines myself why should I.I didnt make the claims that 250 uppers were sent to them for tetsing..the reason I was given for the extreme delays.Delays are one thing ,promising 3 months then waiting 51/2 months is a different story.iIn the beginning when you said you couldnt do the conversion after 31/2 months of sitting on the upper it was you who offered free ammo and an apology for the wait.If you felt I was treated correctly why make the offer at all?In any event send it back and Ill follow the newly aquired info to see if it runs right.Highlander you know are conversations and what was said,I have the proof.If you wnat Ill send you copies to refresh your memory..I didnt call you a moron so go back and read it again.To the asshole who said "I cant beleive he has a badge and a gun"there are many of gratefull strangers over the years who are glad I did at the time.I seen societys best and worst so dont judge me.Before that I saw the best and worst in other shitholes on this planet so dont judge me until you have walked the walk..you have the talk down but not the walk.Sorry I did call you a moron rat bastard highlander...too bad you could never live up to the honor of the regiment you take your name from...the insult still stands.Personality disorder...you have a cant tell the truth disorder.

Ok here's a tip.

When you type like this, no one can read it.  Not because they don't want to, but because they literally can't.

So it follows that if no one reads your rant, no one will understand your point, and will hence will automatically favor Highlander's point (which I think makes more sense).

So here's a tutorial.

USE THE ENTER KEY!!!

Try it, I think you'd be surprised as to its usefulness.

Otherwise, the rest of ARFCOM, including myself, will stop reading your posts because they want to prevent the ensuing headache.

Quoted: Quoted: And this, boys and girls, is what we call "functional illiteracy". I think he has a semi valid point or two in there....  but it's hard to tell.   There are a few points in there but it is hard to make any sense of what he is writing.  It may be time to brush up on English...   Spooky

Ithoughtitwasjustme.  Ireallyliketoreadthisshitbutitssohardtodo.

He makes a point-- it seems the spacing should be 1.5 instead of 1 or something; the lines are so close together it starts to look like a big black block of cyphered text.  OH That's the bolding that reduces the space... it's all clearer now.

I think society would benefit if everyone saw a little of the best and the worst people.  It really changes your world outlook.

I vote for the politicians I see on TV everynight as some of the worst.

Quoted: When you type like this, no one can read it.  Not because they don't want to, but because they literally can't. So it follows that if no one reads your rant, no one will understand your point, and will hence will automatically favor Highlander's point (which I think makes more sense). So here's a tutorial. USE THE ENTER KEY!!! Try it, I think you'd be surprised as to its usefulness. Otherwise, the rest of ARFCOM, including myself, will stop reading your posts because they want to prevent the ensuing headache.

Very well said.

The topic is interesting, but the point is lost when the grammar is this bad.

Trust me, I’m no English professor by any means. I just know to run most of my posts through Word before I post them.