Hey USMC03,

Since you had the mods done by Ken, did he tell you what the mods were?  I don't want to know the details of what he did, just if he told you what they were.

SF

Quoted: Hey USMC03, Since you had the mods done by Ken, did he tell you what the mods were?  I don't want to know the details of what he did, just if he told you what they were. SF

No he did not tell me.  Tina stated that it's the "secret receipe".






____________________________________________________________________________________



Just my .02:




I can respect that through trial and error and numerous years of experience, Ken has put together a package of services / parts for the end user than enhances reliability.

I think if I were in Ken's shoes I wouldn't tell the world what I was doing either.  Why have some other company profit from your experiences?

There are MANY different kind of craftsman in the world, and most seasoned craftsman have secrets that they don't share with everyone.

I find it odd that (for example) BBQ cooks in the Kansas City area spend years, sometimes generations perfecting the receipe for their "World Famous BBQ Sauce".  The receipe is perfected over time through trail and error.  Most everyone respects that the cook keeps his receipe a "secret", because it was something that the cook developed through HIS experience over time a period of time.....

But when it comes to guns, a guy (like Ken Elmore) learns things through trail and error, figures out a "receipe" to make the gun function more reliably and everyone on the internet wants to bad mouth him, because he won't devulge his secret.


I know of a medium sized Department that were having constant reliability problems with their Colt's.  The Deptartment's, Colt factory trained armorers couldn't keep the guns running for any period of time.  The Dept. sent the guns down to Ken, he did his reliablity package on the guns and they haven't had a problem with any of their Commandos since.  Voodoo majic or a Craftsman who knows his way around a Colt?

Quoted: Voodoo majic or a Craftsman who knows his way around a Colt?

Voodoo magic from a craftsman gets my vote!

Ken knows his stuff.  SF

Quoted: Quoted: Hey USMC03, Since you had the mods done by Ken, did he tell you what the mods were?  I don't want to know the details of what he did, just if he told you what they were. SF No he did not tell me.  Tina stated that it's the "secret recipe". ____________________________________________________________________________________ Just my .02: I can respect that through trial and error and numerous years of experience, Ken has put together a package of services / parts for the end user than enhances reliability. I think if I were in Ken's shoes I wouldn't tell the world what I was doing either.  Why have some other company profit from your experiences? There are MANY different kind of craftsman in the world, and most seasoned craftsman have secrets that they don't share with everyone. I find it odd that (for example) BBQ cooks in the Kansas City area spend years, sometimes generations perfecting the receipe for their "World Famous BBQ Sauce".  The receipe is perfected over time through trail and error.  Most everyone respects that the cook keeps his receipe a "secret", because it was something that the cook developed through HIS experience over time a period of time..... But when it comes to guns, a guy (like Ken Elmore) learns things through trail and error, figures out a "receipe" to make the gun function more reliably and everyone on the internet wants to bad mouth him, because he won't devulge his secret. I know of a medium sized Department that were having constant reliability problems with their Colt's.  The Deptartment's, Colt factory trained armorers couldn't keep the guns running for any period of time.  The Dept. sent the guns down to Ken, he did his reliablity package on the guns and they haven't had a problem with any of their Commandos since.  Voodoo majic or a Craftsman who knows his way around a Colt?

Fair enough, but do have any idea why he states these mods work only on Colts, but not on other barnds?

Perhaps because of the way the M4 feedramps are cut on the Colts, they aren't all the same from brand to brand.  He's a Colt snob, it's not like he would offer it on other brands in anycase.

Quoted: Fair enough, but do have any idea why he states these mods work only on Colts, but not on other barnds?

Well, let's see what's different:

Park'd under the FSB - nonissue.
4150 vs. 4140 - nonissue.
Large pin FCG vs. small - may be an issue, but I have no idea how.
Sear block - ????.
Shot peened and MP tested bolt - nonissue in the big scheme of making any rifle reliable in a given point in time.  Long term is another story altogether.
Every barrel MP tested - see above.
M4 ramps - a must have for 100%+ reliablity, but can be had from other places.

My take is this - you can do everything that Ken does to a Colt to any brand rifle with very similiar results.  Ken refuses to work on anything but Colt and that is understandable, especially when it comes to dealing with self/custom builds using parts with a questionable lineage at best OR many of the clone manufacturers that put out less than stellar rifles.  Who wants to deal with that BS day in and out.  I'm still a firm believer that Colt makes parts that are a must have where it counts, so the heart of my "battle" rifles are Colt.

I'd say that everything he does to them can be done by the average member here on this site. Heck, a heavy buffer and Wolff extractor spring go a long way to making an AR-15 more reliable. A quick 5-minute fix. Ken hasn't touched my Colt, and it has been 100% reliable.

Base line reliability vs. Ken's package.  My experiance is it is not nessisary.

Quoted: Like paying $500 or more to have your upper test fired and "Broken In".

This has happened?

Quoted: Quoted: Like paying $500 or more to have your upper test fired and "Broken In".   This has happened?

Oh yea !!! But, never to me.

FWIW: I was never knocking SAWs work (or what they charge) Ken does good work and knows his stuff.

M4Madness wrote:

I'd say that everything he does to them can be done by the average member here on this site

Some of them yes, some of them, probably not.  

Ken has a fully equipped machine shop.  They do more than swap parts.  He also teaches armorer classes to LE, US military and foreign military.

SF

What a bunch of old women some of you are. Either you want it or you don't. The internet has given every goofball an over inflated sense of self worth as far as their purchasing power.

If you don't see the value, don't buy it. Ken (or any smith) is not obligated to tell you shit. Should Hilton Yam tell you exactly how he fits his fire control parts? Should Mick Strider let you know how he grinds a knife? Should Captain Crunch tell you how he gets those crunch berries in there?

Say what you want about the man or his package. However, I have never seen it disputed ANYWHERE that Ken Elmore knows his shit when it comes to Colt rifles. He sees a ton of them. He knows the slight variations in production. You are not paying just for the series of mods, you are paying for somebody with a very deep knowledge base to take a personal look at your rifle and get it in top form with a series of mods that time has taught him as being worth while. Why should he publish the exact mods for somebody who has not paid their dues to copy? Not to mention, if he did publish the list, there would be a ton of armchair gunsmtihs running out to their garage with their leatherman and Dremmel to get to work to do it like SAW does and fuck up their rifles in the process. The price of the package is about 10% of the price of the rifle. To ME having one of the country’s top Colt guys look my rifle over, add some things that have proven to him to be worth it, AND then stand behind the work with a guarantee is worth it. It would be like if I were to buy a Mustang and for an extra 10% Carroll Shelby would give it the once over and add a few small upgrades before pronouncing it good to go. Another thing is that it does come with an H2 buffer which are about $50 or so bucks. So if you buy the rifle from him, you are getting the mods for $50 plus the price of a new buffer.

For you guys that say "I don't let a mechanic work on my car unless he tells me everything." Try going into the top tuners for a given car. Go to AMG for your Benz, Ruf for Porsche or any of the other top mechanics for a given brand and ask them EXACTLY what they do for each package of upgrades. You will get a list of upgrades, but not specifics. They might say "port heads" but they are not going to tell you how much or where. And, yes you too if you knew what the hell you were doing could port your own heads, but would you know as much as the person who has built a whole business out of dealing and tuning a specific brand? Just like Ken has built a business based on selling and tuning Colt rifles. He gives a vague list of mods, but no specifics.

Maybe it is all my Ayn Rand reading this week, but it sure interesting how people love to tear down somebody who is at the top of their game and confident. It is capitalism man. If you can do a better job, bring it on. If you know your shit and can get a reputation of quality that Ken Elmore has and then do an upgrade package for 50 bucks, go for it. I am all about the consumer getting a good value. But a bunch of bitching and moaning from a bunch of people who have contributed ZERO to the firearm industry is a joke. Good work is not cheap. Nor should it be.

Quoted: Quoted: Sand cuts in the Bolt Carrier à la   L1A1 maybe? I could go for that. tinypic.com/ibxtuq.jpg If you want what is essentially a bolt carrier with sand cuts, get an LMT enhanced Bolt Carrier.

I'll take a look at the LMT, thanks.

a little help for a newbie..... the known upgrade parts that you all are speaking of arent known to this guy. what is a heavey buffer? what are the other stuff? i am in the process of mods on my colt and i am having fun doing it myself( installing free float 4 rail, tritium sights and other little stuff like that). i eventually am getting a eotech and am in the process of storing up shtf ammo, so i am in money saving mode right now. so the 150.00, while i am sure is worth it, is on down the line. so what can i do as a new guy to increase the reliability of my colt? and please be specific with no abbreviational type language. thanks.

a little help for a newbie..... the known upgrade parts that you all are speaking of arent known to this guy. what is a heavey buffer? what are the other stuff? i am in the process of mods on my colt and i am having fun doing it myself( installing free float 4 rail, tritium sights and other little stuff like that). i eventually am getting a eotech and am in the process of storing up shtf ammo, so i am in money saving mode right now. so the 150.00, while i am sure is worth it, is on down the line. so what can i do as a new guy to increase the reliability of my colt? and please be specific with no abbreviational type language. thanks.

Is their something wrong with it now?? How many rds have you put thru it to date? of those, How many Malfuctions have you experienced??  

Chances are VERY GOOD you already have a reliable weapon. the only way to really know is to get some rds thru it.

Quoted: a little help for a newbie..... the known upgrade parts that you all are speaking of arent known to this guy. what is a heavey buffer? what are the other stuff? i am in the process of mods on my colt and i am having fun doing it myself( installing free float 4 rail, tritium sights and other little stuff like that). i eventually am getting a eotech and am in the process of storing up shtf ammo, so i am in money saving mode right now. so the 150.00, while i am sure is worth it, is on down the line. so what can i do as a new guy to increase the reliability of my colt? and please be specific with no abbreviational type language. thanks. Is their something wrong with it now?? How many rds have you put thru it to date? of those, How many Malfuctions have you experienced??   Chances are VERY GOOD you already have a reliable weapon. the only way to really know is to get some rds thru it.

Exactly.  Check out the Troubleshooting forum and a few other threads around here to see how dorked up rifles can get when people try to mess with them and start adding needless crap to them.

Case in point...............I mean, really, it's a 5.56 cartridge..........................how much recoil does it actually have and how much less do you want it to be.  A good fighting stance and time behind the trigger will do as much for you as will an H, H2, H3, 9mm or fancy hydraulic buffer will ever do for you.

Leave it alone, learn the weapon inside and out, then add things ONLY if they are needed.

i have only put about 4-500 rds thru and no probs. i am not asking for info to make changes to fix anything, i was specifically asking about this 90% of mods that this thread was talking about, and what they are. specifically, someone mentioned a buffer, an extractor spring, and other stuff. buffer= the thing in the stock? that is the stuff i am asking about. i appreciate the advice, but i also want your knowledge.

From the SAW website:

21-JAN-03 SERVICES – WORKING ON "AR-15’s" OTHER THAN COLT: We do not normally work on AR’s other than Colt for reasons concerning quality & liability. (Many of these so-called “Colt clones” will simply never function reliability.) Therefore, we cannot provide guaranteed work that meets our shop standards. ”In a nutshell” – people want to bring/ship in the most sub-standard (cheap), unbelievable, “it’s-just-as-good-as-a-Colt”, problematic black rifles with parts of unknown origin, material, design and specification – and want us to make these firearms work like highly tuned Colts. This is just not possible! We do not want to take your money to “fix” something that you/we will never be satisfied with. Having said this – we will work on all Colt AR-15/M16 series weapons; all (real) U.S. Mil-spec M16’s (FN, Hydramatic, H & R); or any AR-type firearms that we have built, upgraded, or sold – (although there are inherent pitfalls here too if the firearm has been modified from its original configuration or was purchased as a receiver – we will try to help as best we can). As a courtesy to Law Enforcement Agencies we will look at some “aftermarket” AR-type weapons on a very limited basis to determine reliability and/or possible repair costs. These situations need to be discussed on a case by case basis before any weapons should be shipped to us. On a positive note – even though nearly 90% of Specialized Armament’s business is to our many discerning Law Enforcement and Government customers, we will always provide OEM quality parts, accessories, and services to private citizens who are committed to owning high quality, military grade firearms. (Ken)

Ken has his reasons for limiting the brands of carbines he'll work on.

Quoted: From the SAW website: 21-JAN-03 SERVICES – WORKING ON "AR-15’s" OTHER THAN COLT: We do not normally work on AR’s other than Colt for reasons concerning quality & liability. (Many of these so-called “Colt clones” will simply never function reliability.) Therefore, we cannot provide guaranteed work that meets our shop standards. This sounds like over stated hype. Nice Typo. ”In a nutshell” – people want to bring/ship in the most sub-standard (cheap), unbelievable, “it’s-just-as-good-as-a-Colt”, problematic black rifles with parts of unknown origin, material, design and specification – and want us to make these firearms work like highly tuned Colts. This is just not possible! We do not want to take your money to “fix” something that you/we will never be satisfied with. What is a "highly tuned" Colt? Is it a Colt that would not function correctly so it had to be worked on extra hard? Having said this – we will work on all Colt AR-15/M16 series weapons; all (real) U.S. Mil-spec M16’s (FN, Hydramatic, H & R); or any AR-type firearms that we have built, upgraded, or sold – (although there are inherent pitfalls here too if the firearm has been modified from its original configuration or was purchased as a receiver – we will try to help as best we can). Let me get this straight, they won't work on anything but Colt unless it is aan M16 which will most likely be owned by a department? As a courtesy to Law Enforcement Agencies we will look at some “aftermarket” AR-type weapons on a very limited basis to determine reliability and/or possible repair costs. These situations need to be discussed on a case by case basis before any weapons should be shipped to us. This makes sense. On a positive note – even though nearly 90% of Specialized Armament’s business is to our many discerning Law Enforcement and Government customers, we will always provide OEM quality parts, accessories, and services to private citizens who are committed to owning high quality, military grade firearms. (Ken) Why does a positive note have to be interjected? Ken has his reasons for limiting the brands of carbines he'll work on.

Anyone remember Ken's choice words when he briefly posted on this site?

Quoted: Anyone remember Ken's choice words when he briefly posted on this site?

Yes.  A bunch of asshats shat on his company and reputation.  Were you one of them?

Quoted:  Were you one of them?

No, where you?

Quoted: Quoted:  Were you one of them? No, where you?

Nope.  I defended the man because I understood where he was coming from.  The internet is very important to the livelihood of folks like Ken and Tina, because it allows them to advertise their products and services relatively cheaply to the whole world.  Unfortunately, the absence of barriers to marketing and speech for guys like Ken also benefits whiney, pissy little crybabies who make up for their personal and professional inadequacies by shitting on anyone who isn't like them or who doesn't kiss their scrawny, pimply asses.  These asshats attack with impunity from the anonymity of their keyboards.  

There are no lifeguards at the gene pool and there are no tone and content editors for the internet. . . .

I'm sure he's a fantastic gunsmith who does great work.  I defend his desire to protect trade secrets.  

However, I wouldn't send a rifle to anyone to work on if they wouldn't tell me what they were going to do.  What would you do if a few months down the road you decided to replace a part?  You wouldn't know if you put the right one in because you don't know what he replaced and what he didn't.  


I won't crap on his work because he sounds like he knows what he's doing and there are quite a few people who think highly of his work.  But....since he can't/won't tell me what he's going to be doing to my rifle I won't be sending it to him.  

YMMV

Originally from cnow

i have only put about 4-500 rds thru and no probs. i am not asking for info to make changes to fix anything, i was specifically asking about this 90% of mods that this thread was talking about, and what they are. specifically, someone mentioned a buffer, an extractor spring, and other stuff. buffer= the thing in the stock? that is the stuff i am asking about. i appreciate the advice, but i also want your knowledge.

I don't know how to break this to you, but you  are barely past break in on your AR.....  Start keeping a weapons Maint Log and everytime you put a few hundred  rds down range you add it to your log. use good GI Spec Mags that are numbered for easy ID and good qaulity ammo. use the log to know  the "Mileage" of your AR and when to replace parts at specific intervals and to Identify and reoccuring problems that may "Pop"up and  just shoot.. Don't be so quick to start "Tinkering"  Want to get to know the correct "Nomenclature" of all your parts...Download the Technical manual that The Military issues and read it. tells you everything you ever wanted to know. how to Lube, where, parts locations,etc.

Check ALL the tacked threads in all the forums like trouble shooting,technical,this one, etc. Already ALOT of good info on here for you  to learn and absorb.  And yes, there will be a pop quiz later....

(sorry for the Hijack)

Quoted: I'm sure he's a fantastic gunsmith who does great work.  I defend his desire to protect trade secrets.   However, I wouldn't send a rifle to anyone to work on if they wouldn't tell me what they were going to do.  What would you do if a few months down the road you decided to replace a part?  You wouldn't know if you put the right one in because you don't know what he replaced and what he didn't.   I won't crap on his work because he sounds like he knows what he's doing and there are quite a few people who think highly of his work.  But....since he can't/won't tell me what he's going to be doing to my rifle I won't be sending it to him.   YMMV

Brother, +1 for your thoughtful views.  It's not for everybody and it sounds like it's not for you.  I'm going to send my 6933 off to Ken shortly for the reliability package and to have a GG&G single point sling plate installed and staked.  Could I go without?  Sure?  Could I do some or all myself. Absolutely.  I'm going to have Ken do the work because his work is outstanding, he is one of the best, if not the best, Colt armorers around, he is a Colt guy, and he supports the Second Amendment.  Are his prices high?  Yes.  When I buy parts or service from SAW, I"m not just paying for the part or the work, I'm paying for Ken's knowledge and experience.  I'm paying because I know that he's got the parts, the tools, and the know-how 100% of the time.

Quoted: Quoted: I'm sure he's a fantastic gunsmith who does great work.  I defend his desire to protect trade secrets.   However, I wouldn't send a rifle to anyone to work on if they wouldn't tell me what they were going to do.  What would you do if a few months down the road you decided to replace a part?  You wouldn't know if you put the right one in because you don't know what he replaced and what he didn't.   I won't crap on his work because he sounds like he knows what he's doing and there are quite a few people who think highly of his work.  But....since he can't/won't tell me what he's going to be doing to my rifle I won't be sending it to him.   YMMV Brother, +1 for your thoughtful views.  It's not for everybody and it sounds like it's not for you.  I'm going to send my 6933 off to Ken shortly for the reliability package and to have a GG&G single point sling plate installed and staked.  Could I go without?  Sure?  Could I do some or all myself. Absolutely.  I'm going to have Ken do the work because his work is outstanding, he is one of the best, if not the best, Colt armorers around, he is a Colt guy, and he supports the Second Amendment.  Are his prices high?  Yes.  When I buy parts or service from SAW, I"m not just paying for the part or the work, I'm paying for Ken's knowledge and experience.  I'm paying because I know that he's got the parts, the tools, and the know-how 100% of the time.

Understand that you want to send it to him to work on and no issue there.  I don't know the man, never seen his work, and know very little about him.  Based on what people are saying here I think you'll be happy.


Plus my Colt is very reliable(they are the best you know!!)

Quoted: Quoted: From the SAW website: 21-JAN-03 SERVICES – WORKING ON "AR-15’s" OTHER THAN COLT: We do not normally work on AR’s other than Colt for reasons concerning quality & liability. (Many of these so-called “Colt clones” will simply never function reliability.) Therefore, we cannot provide guaranteed work that meets our shop standards. This sounds like over stated hype. Nice Typo. ”In a nutshell” – people want to bring/ship in the most sub-standard (cheap), unbelievable, “it’s-just-as-good-as-a-Colt”, problematic black rifles with parts of unknown origin, material, design and specification – and want us to make these firearms work like highly tuned Colts. This is just not possible! We do not want to take your money to “fix” something that you/we will never be satisfied with. What is a "highly tuned" Colt? Is it a Colt that would not function correctly so it had to be worked on extra hard? Having said this – we will work on all Colt AR-15/M16 series weapons; all (real) U.S. Mil-spec M16’s (FN, Hydramatic, H & R); or any AR-type firearms that we have built, upgraded, or sold – (although there are inherent pitfalls here too if the firearm has been modified from its original configuration or was purchased as a receiver – we will try to help as best we can). Let me get this straight, they won't work on anything but Colt unless it is aan M16 which will most likely be owned by a department? As a courtesy to Law Enforcement Agencies we will look at some “aftermarket” AR-type weapons on a very limited basis to determine reliability and/or possible repair costs. These situations need to be discussed on a case by case basis before any weapons should be shipped to us. This makes sense. On a positive note – even though nearly 90% of Specialized Armament’s business is to our many discerning Law Enforcement and Government customers, we will always provide OEM quality parts, accessories, and services to private citizens who are committed to owning high quality, military grade firearms. (Ken) Why does a positive note have to be interjected? Ken has his reasons for limiting the brands of carbines he'll work on. Anyone remember Ken's choice words when he briefly posted on this site?

It was because of that very thread, that I chose not to post that much here. He (Ken) hit the nail on the head about 90% of the members here!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted:  Were you one of them? No, where you? Nope.  I defended the man because I understood where he was coming from.  The internet is very important to the livelihood of folks like Ken and Tina, because it allows them to advertise their products and services relatively cheaply to the whole world.  Unfortunately, the absence of barriers to marketing and speech for guys like Ken also benefits whiney, pissy little crybabies who make up for their personal and professional inadequacies by shitting on anyone who isn't like them or who doesn't kiss their scrawny, pimply asses.  These asshats attack with impunity from the anonymity of their keyboards.   There are no lifeguards at the gene pool and there are no tone and content editors for the internet. . . .

Amen Brother

From what I have seen, It seems the people who bash him the most have never had any work done by him or purchased anything from SAW


Ken will tell you this

We will always work hard for our REAL customers--and we know who's who.

this is the first thread i have seen that people are specifically not answering my question. not that it is your duty or anything, but usually i have found people more than forthcoming with answers to honest, good questions concerning the ar15 rifle and how to further improve the life of one, and enhance its reliability. i bought one with a chrome lined barrel..... cause it (the barrel) will last longer. i bought one with m-4 feed ramps, cause it will function better. now, all i want to know it how to make my rifle, which i think is one of the best according to the research i did before i purchased anything, how to improve the reliability of something that is already great. that is what this whole thread is about. are his mods worth it? most seem to agree they are. some seem to think they know some of the mods he does to enhance reliability. thats all im asking oh ar15 gurus.... please share with this rookie.



p.s. thanks for the suggestion about the log too.

Quoted: this is the first thread i have seen that people are specifically not answering my question. not that it is your duty or anything, but usually i have found people more than forthcoming with answers to honest, good questions concerning the ar15 rifle and how to further improve the life of one, and enhance its reliability. i bought one with a chrome lined barrel..... cause it (the barrel) will last longer. i bought one with m-4 feed ramps, cause it will function better. now, all i want to know it how to make my rifle, which i think is one of the best according to the research i did before i purchased anything, how to improve the reliability of something that is already great. that is what this whole thread is about. are his mods worth it? most seem to agree they are. some seem to think they know some of the mods he does to enhance reliability. thats all im asking oh ar15 gurus.... please share with this rookie. p.s. thanks for the suggestion about the log too.

Will it make your gun function better?  Yes?  More imporantly, does it matter for you and will you notice the difference?  Can't answer that for you, only you can.  From what little I know about you, it sounds as though the reliability package may be unnecessary for now.  If an when you are putting several thousand rounds through your carbine, it might be appropriate.  As well, if you have the money and want to have the work done, do it.

Quoted: this is the first thread i have seen that people are specifically not answering my question. not that it is your duty or anything, but usually i have found people more than forthcoming with answers to honest, good questions concerning the ar15 rifle and how to further improve the life of one, and enhance its reliability. i bought one with a chrome lined barrel..... cause it (the barrel) will last longer. i bought one with m-4 feed ramps, cause it will function better. now, all i want to know it how to make my rifle, which i think is one of the best according to the research i did before i purchased anything, how to improve the reliability of something that is already great. that is what this whole thread is about. are his mods worth it? most seem to agree they are. some seem to think they know some of the mods he does to enhance reliability. thats all im asking oh ar15 gurus.... please share with this rookie. p.s. thanks for the suggestion about the log too.

I guess if you have a Colt and an extra $150 to spend it'll be a good purchase.

I don't see the need but hey, it's your money!!

YMMV

how do i put this???? Claire, answer the fucking question.

Quoted: this is the first thread i have seen that people are specifically not answering my question. not that it is your duty or anything, but usually i have found people more than forthcoming with answers to honest, good questions concerning the ar15 rifle and how to further improve the life of one, and enhance its reliability. i bought one with a chrome lined barrel..... cause it (the barrel) will last longer. i bought one with m-4 feed ramps, cause it will function better. now, all i want to know it how to make my rifle, which i think is one of the best according to the research i did before i purchased anything, how to improve the reliability of something that is already great. that is what this whole thread is about. are his mods worth it? most seem to agree they are. some seem to think they know some of the mods he does to enhance reliability. thats all im asking oh ar15 gurus.... please share with this rookie. p.s. thanks for the suggestion about the log too.

What AR are you using?

James
LE6920

Quoted: how do i put this???? Claire, answer the fucking question.

Simply put, send it to Ken.  It's the only way to get it done.

"What AR are you using?

James
LE6920"

i have the 6920. it wasnt my intention to get rude with anyone. just wanted to hear what possibilities are out there. not that i even anticipate any problems with reliability or function at all. just wanting to see if a good thing could be made better... made better by me.

Quoted: how do i put this???? Claire, answer the fucking question.

All of this applies to carbines.

Heavy Buffer:  stock carbine buffer weighs something like 2.5 oz, actual weights are posted on several threads.  Then there are H, H2 and H3 buffers, all slightly heavier yet.  They employ various combinations of steel and tungsten balls in their internals to increase weight.  They aren't adjustable as far as I know, you just buy whatever weight you want and repalce the stock buffer.  Then there are 9mm buffers, heavier yet, since they were designed to function in blowback 9mm aplications.  Rifle buffers, used in A2 stocks and such are longer and heavier than carbine and the H series.  I think some of the 9mm buffers may be heavier though than rifle buffers, again, search for weights on other threads.   If you decide to try a 9mm or H series buffer in an A2 stock, you'll need an added spacer to bring them up to the same length as a rifle buffer.

Tubbs Carrier Weight System (CWS):  David Tubbs is a renown competitive shooter and markets various add ons to ARs.  The CWS accomplishes the same thing as a heavier buffer, but it adds weight to the carrier instead.  It features an insert that slips into the rear of the carrier and then it can also hold one of two smaller inserts, either a steel or a tungsten insert.  In a nutshell, it allows you to add approx 2, 3 or 4 oz to the carrier.

Why All This Weight Is a Good Thing:  Carbines run at higher gas/port pressure than rifles, almost twice as much.  That added pressure makes extraction more difficult since it's happening sooner in the firing cycle and it's happening more violently.  Case walls are still expanded and gripping the chamber walls tightly.  It takes a good grip to yank that case out of there.  As barrels wear, gas ports erode and send more gas to the system.  This causes more problems as round counts increase.  The whole idea of heavy buffers/CWS is to add mass to the moving parts so the bolt stays locked up a tad longer, allowing pressures to subside and cases to relax their grip on the chamber walls.  That makes extraction easier.  But as many people are saying, if your carbine runs fine today, there's no real reason to run out and start tweaking it.  But continue to monitor the situation and if problems arise, then consider adding some weight.

Heavy Duty extractor spring/O-ring/Defender insert:  Puts more tension on the extractor so it gets a better grip on the case rim and doesn't slip over it on extraction (see above about trying to extract while cases have firm grip on chamber).  O-rings just fit around the stock spring providing more tension, HD springs have thicker and more coils, Defenders are D-shaped and were specifically designed for this application.  There are differences of opinion if the Defender is that much better than a plian O-ring, again, do some searches, there's plenty of info.

Stiffer Recoil Springs:  Tubbs sells chrome silicon springs, MGI sells 2X springs, Wolff sells a heavier spring.  Each is supposed to provide more damping, again helping things stay locked up a bit longer.  Springs are also affected by round counts, and in time they will take a set and lose some of their damping and rebound capabilities.  If problems crop up after several thousand rounds, check your springs.  Remove it and compare the no-load height with a new spring.  A spring which has lost D/R will be shorter than a new spring.

HD Mag springs: When carbine actions cycle quickly, if your mag spring is old and tired, it won't present the next round in a timely enough manner.  HD springs pop the next round up quicker.  SAW sells these, called their Red Springs.  You need to download though by two to ensure reliability, so your 30 rounders become 28 rounders.

Magpul Followers:  anti-tilt design, ensures rounds are persented at the proper angle and not tilted nose-down.

M4 Feed ramps:  analogous to a throating job on a pistol, the feed ramp cuts in the barel extension are widened slightly and blended into some complemenatry cuts made to the upper.  In the end, the entry ramp is a bit longer top-to-bottom and a bit wider.  Very useful for full auto, again there's debate if there's utility for a SA application, but they can't hurt.  Some guys attempt hack jobs at home and they can look ugly.  Plus those eat into the hardcote anodizing on the uppers which will wear over time and corrode.  Properly done at a factory, the ramping cut outs are made prior to anodizing.

There may be more.  Hope this gives you an idea of what's being discussed.

jmart, i think you answered my question. and thank you for all the other stuff everyone.

Does Colt have different buffer springs for the 6920 vs the actual M-4?  Does it matter that 1 has the cut away carrier vs the M-16 carrier?  What if you switched a cut away carrier for an actual M-16 carrier, would it require a spring change?

No.  Same spring.  The M16 carrier would be a bit more reliable with the heavier weight, it's what the rifle was designed to use but that doesn't mean you need one.

What Mongo said.

Here's my take:

Gunsmith: "I can fix your rifle for $150.00"
Customer with more money than common sense: "My rifle is 100%. Never had a problem."
Gunsmith: "Yeah, but I can make it 101%."
Customer with more money than common sense: "REALLY?? What will you do to it?"
Gunsmith: "I can't tell you, it's my secret."
Customer with more money than common sense: GREAT!! If I give you $300.00 will you make it 102%?"
Gunsmith: "Sure. For you. But don't tell anybody. I don't do this for just anyone."
Customer with more money than common sense: "GEE THANKS!!!"

This reminds me of Forest Gump. Or better yet, the emperor's new clothes. Point here is, if the guy won't explain to you exactly what he plans to do, and why, you are indeed a fool if you proceed. My $.02. Let the crap fly.

Quoted: This reminds me of Forest Gump. Or better yet, the emperor's new clothes. Point here is, if the guy won't explain to you exactly what he plans to do, and why, you are indeed a fool if you proceed. My $.02. Let the crap fly.

Have you ever enjoyed a burger from McDonald's, a Coke, or a Pepsi?  Ask the manufacturers what they do when they make the products you consumed.  Go ahead, ass hat, ask away.  These are food products that you are consuming and you should know everything about the things you put into your body.  What?  The companies won't tell you?  No kidding?  I wonder why?  Maybe you better boycott them as well.  Stick to pure grain alcohol and rain water and preserve your precious bodily fluids while you are at it, knucklehead.

Hey, if you don't want to pay for 1st class work, don't pay for it.  But don't criticize those who do and those in the industry who perform that kind of work.

I don't ask Dan Bedell how he gets the incredible slide to frame bit on the STI open guns he's building for me, but I'm paying $2900 for each gun.

I don't ask Richard Heinie how he tunes extractors, or fits barrels, but I don't mind paying a premium for one of his guns.

I don't ask Pete Single how he did the checkering on my Springfield, but I trust him to do it right, and pay extra for it.

If someone has Ken do extra work on their Colt rifle, so be it.  He knows his stuff.
This reminds me of Forest Gump. Or better yet, the emperor's new clothes. Point here is, if the guy won't explain to you exactly what he plans to do, and why, you are indeed a fool if you proceed. My $.02. Let the crap fly.

"Quetico" is most likely a troll account.  Say, isn't Quetico some place to canoe in Canada?

Run a search for Quetico in the archives.  You'll be really impressed with the "quality" of his posts.

Quoted: Hey, if you don't want to pay for 1st class work, don't pay for it.  But don't criticize those who do and those in the industry who perform that kind of work. I don't ask Dan Bedell how he gets the incredible slide to frame bit on the STI open guns he's building for me, but I'm paying $2900 for each gun. I don't ask Richard Heinie how he tunes extractors, or fits barrels, but I don't mind paying a premium for one of his guns. I don't ask Pete Single how he did the checkering on my Springfield, but I trust him to do it right, and pay extra for it. If someone has Ken do extra work on their Colt rifle, so be it.  He knows his stuff. This reminds me of Forest Gump. Or better yet, the emperor's new clothes. Point here is, if the guy won't explain to you exactly what he plans to do, and why, you are indeed a fool if you proceed. My $.02. Let the crap fly.

Just an observation but the contents of coke and pepsi are listed on the containers as are all prepared packaged foods in the US because people demanded to know what was in the products.  McDonalds lists all the ingredients in their burgers on a nutritional info pamphlet available in the store.  Those were poor examples.

As far as the quoted post, in each case you know what job is being done, just not how it is being done, that's different.  You aren't handing over your firearm and telling him to just "make it better" and getting your piece back with a "okay it's better, pay me".

I don't care how each job is done as long as it comes out proper, but I'm not going to hand my money over to someone who won't say anything about what is being done for my money.  I don't really have to because all my AR's work and I have already done some things to improve and maintain reliability, things that I may get charged for again under an anonymous job.  Most reputable smiths will tell you what is included with each job package.  Even an auto shop won't just say "made your car work" or "made your car better" on the bill, they don't always describe how they did the work but most will say on what system, parts they had to work on/replace, or what had to be repaired.

I can understand why Ken won't say, he wants to corner the market on such a job package, pure and simple - one that most other smiths could most likely accomplish and many at a cheaper price.  There is nothing wrong with a consumer wanting something cheaper as long as it's done properly, nor is there anything wrong with wanting to know what is being done for their money even if each task or part is not completely explained.  Ken could simply say things like - bolt assy upgrade, torque job, chamber work, etc... It is unreasonable to deny all information to the person paying for services.

For those that don't care if they are paying for something they won't notice, something they have no knowledge of even if it has already been done or is unnecessary to obtain Ken's seal of increased reliability - that's okay too, it may make the difference they are seeking and Ken has the credibility, experience, and skill to make that possible.  Of course if your rifle has no problems, I don't see much need for it.

In the end, the title of this thread should really be IS IT WORTH IT TO YOU

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted:  Were you one of them? No, where you? Nope.  I defended the man because I understood where he was coming from.  The internet is very important to the livelihood of folks like Ken and Tina, because it allows them to advertise their products and services relatively cheaply to the whole world.  Unfortunately, the absence of barriers to marketing and speech for guys like Ken also benefits whiney, pissy little crybabies who make up for their personal and professional inadequacies by shitting on anyone who isn't like them or who doesn't kiss their scrawny, pimply asses.  These asshats attack with impunity from the anonymity of their keyboards.   There are no lifeguards at the gene pool and there are no tone and content editors for the internet. . . .

Well said, El_A!!

I remember the internet firefight that resulted in his tossing the towel.

It was right up there with the ARMS/Troy/ or LaRue battle between (allegedly) Dick Swann and some dealers here. Brutal

There are a handful of first tier armorers, industry high-ups, 'connected' people that post here now, and it would be a welcome change if they did more often (USMC03, coldblue, S-Dynamic, Raffica, and a couple others come to mind)

Their input is priceless.

I just wish we had others including Ken to offer their expertise on occasion.

The site is growing, but growing  more in GD, than in Tech. Tech may even be less traveled than it once was . Not sure of that though.


ETA: cnow,

YES, it is worth it.

Any product manufactured in an assembly line manner, is subject to the occasional problem. Even Colt, who has many QC measures installed into the process.

When you are talking about a firearm that may well be your self defense, and therefore what saves your life, you will have the peace of mind knowing that everything that can be done to ensure it will function reliably,  has been done.

And done by arguably the very best AR15 armorer's shop, no less.

He came in after the fight (the one and only) had already begun and before he left insulted all internet/ARFcom users in one general sweeping slam whether they were for or against him.  I respect his skill and expertise but his respect for others leaves something to be desired.  Of course he was pushed in the first place but from what I recall, he had not been posting before the fight, nor after - it was a one shot deal.  A friend of his brought his attention over here to defend himself and he left in disgust, not unjustly but I didn't appreciate being insulted when I didn't have a beef with him.  This is all off thread anyways and my own apologies but let's cut the crap about the old fight and get back to the actual SAW reliability package.  We all know about the fight and Ken's credentials, those are not in question, the package work is.