Having read through this post let us explain our hesitation in posting.  We are truly doomed if we do and doomed if we don’t.
Feeding frenzies are never fun especially when you are the main course.  There have been several of these threads, some of which we have felt worth responding to and some that aren’t.   Reading through and seeing comments from fellow gun owners suggesting we should commit suicide and taking personal stabs is simply inappropriate.  While it rather humorous to the reader it takes away from the credibility of the post.

The last thing that we will get involved in is out of control thread bashing our company.   Every response we make will be dissected,  criticized, and second guessed.  This is how threads of this nature typically go.

We would hope the reader will give us the benefit of the doubt.  We have enjoyed a great reputation on this and other boards.  Our business was started from absolutely nothing and built by consistently delivering quality products.  

The mid-length barrels are the same as all the other barrels we do.  I would hope that readers would take the time to look at feedback on all our other barrels.  Besides the extra 1/8” there has been  a lot of bad info concerning these barrels.  First of all people said these were not chrome lined but they were.  The statement about the gas hole was simply incorrect.  It was to spec.   There were other things but this is all that comes to mind at the moment.

I would really like to thank Steve, Giff, and others for making the best of a bad situation.  Steve was very helpful and Giff has been the best.  Things have been difficult for all parties involved.   We have taken this very personally and learned much in the most painful way.  I hoped we would never have receive a black eye like this.

I read the post that suggests we said we are “too busy.”  Who started this?   Where did this come from?  When made the target of a lynching in a thread there is no benefit in responding.  When contacted by people with problems concerning their barrel we were not too busy.  We took care of them.  

In reading through the posts let us respond this way.  If you are experiencing a 40% failure rate there is something wrong.  We would very much like to take a look at it and get taken care of.   If you are getting 10 moa accuracy we would very much like to take a look at it and get the problem solved.  

The one suggestion I would like to make to everyone, is that if you are having problems with one of your barrels, contact CMMG DIRECTLY about it, BEFORE coming on the boards and posting one way or another. Give them the opportunity to help make it right. If they dont, THEN feel free to bring it to everyone's attention. This should be followed with any company and any situation.......

Quoted: Quoted: The one suggestion I would like to make to everyone, is that if you are having problems with one of your barrels, contact CMMG DIRECTLY about it, BEFORE coming on the boards and posting one way or another. Give them the opportunity to help make it right. If they dont, THEN feel free to bring it to everyone's attention. This should be followed with any company and any situation....... I do have to say, someone already posted they tried doing that and got screwed. Second, if a consumer buys a product from a vendor and it is bad out the door, consistantly, I would really like to know this information.  Who cares if I know after buying a bad item the vendor is more then willing to refund me my money a month after I sent them the money.   There have been many threads where someone posts "I got screwed" and many folks jump on their backs saying this has never happened to them and to work it out. This thread seems to be a little different then that. I understand CMMG is an industry partner and you're a mod, maybe you are even buddies with these guys from CMMG, but I think everyone has given their due dilligence on this matter.

1. Who contacted CMMG and got screwed?

2. I like to know companies to avoid buying from as well. That has nothing to do with my stance that one should contact a company before coming on here and bitching.

3. Many of those "I got screwed" threads seem pretty hokie, and most HAVENT EVEN CONTACTED THE COMPANY before posting. See point #2.

4. Them being an industry partner and me being a mod has absolutely nothing to do with each other. What gives you the remotest idea that I am buddies with them? I'd like an explanation on such insinuations.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The one suggestion I would like to make to everyone, is that if you are having problems with one of your barrels, contact CMMG DIRECTLY about it, BEFORE coming on the boards and posting one way or another. Give them the opportunity to help make it right. If they dont, THEN feel free to bring it to everyone's attention. This should be followed with any company and any situation....... I do have to say, someone already posted they tried doing that and got screwed. Second, if a consumer buys a product from a vendor and it is bad out the door, consistantly, I would really like to know this information.  Who cares if I know after buying a bad item the vendor is more then willing to refund me my money a month after I sent them the money.   There have been many threads where someone posts "I got screwed" and many folks jump on their backs saying this has never happened to them and to work it out. This thread seems to be a little different then that. I understand CMMG is an industry partner and you're a mod, maybe you are even buddies with these guys from CMMG, but I think everyone has given their due dilligence on this matter. 1. Who contacted CMMG and got screwed? 2. I like to know companies to avoid buying from as well. That has nothing to do with my stance that one should contact a company before coming on here and bitching. 3. Many of those "I got screwed" threads seem pretty hokie, and most HAVENT EVEN CONTACTED THE COMPANY before posting. See point #2. 4. Them being an industry partner and me being a mod has absolutely nothing to do with each other. What gives you the remotest idea that I am buddies with them? I'd like an explanation on such insinuations. 1.  Read the thread again 2.  Yes they should I agree 3.  Regardless if they seem "hokie," when they pop up and the person doesnt have a leg to stand on, there are plenty here who show the problem for what it is, nothing more then normal business.  Thats why I am saying, even if someone posts before contacting the company, if the alegation is utterly false, many here show it for what it is. 4.  Sorry, I am not saying you are buddies with them.  You coming on and saying what you did makes one think you have some relationship with them.  Most people I know will not automaticaly try to defend someone they do not even know.  But you are a mod and are the first one to come on and basically defend the vendor in question.  It has happened before where we are warned by mods to be carfull.  If this was Joeken, Vulcan, or other thread this would not have happened.

I have read it. I do not see where anyone has posted that they have contacted CMMG and got screwed. Again, who has contacted CMMG and got screwed?
Me saying that someone should contact them if they have a problem makes you think I have a relationship with them?? I am not defending them in any way. I just said to contact them if you have a problem and give them a chance to fix it. I'll say it with ANY compant. If you have a problem CONTACT THEM.

Most people I know will not automaticaly try to defend someone they do not even know.

Quoted: This is just my gut feeling and it is easy for me to say this, as I didn't have thousands at risk here, but IMO, when the out of spec condition was noted on the barrels - the infamous 1/8", they should have been replaced.  There shouldn't have been the flurry of band-aid fixes concocted and offered up.  The fix should have been to provide a product that was in spec, because that what was marketed to the buyers.  TIFWIW, as I do realize there was a large amount of money at stake.

Personally, I would agree with that.

WOW!

I was amazed to find out about this thread from someone in the industry today.  I've been pretty inactive the last 6 weeks or so due to being layed off from work, a hard drive crash that wiped out most everything I had, and other family issues that have taken much of my time and energy.  

There appear to be a number of issues to address.

First, the lack of personal contact with me.  If you have a problem with me or the barrels, then PLEASE contact me directly instead of IMing other folks and complaining.  I have gone out  of my way to take care of people throughout this entire time.  

Second, I have personally lost THOUSANDS of dollars on this deal as well as countless hours away from my family and more stress than you can imagine.  If anyone has a right to be pissed, I would say it is ME!  However, through this whole thing I have been forthright, and available.  Yes, I have missed some emails and IMs, but I have made good on those as it's been brought to my attention.  Anyone who has asked for a refund has received it.  

I decided to go with CMMG based on their reputation here on the boards.  They built these barrels just as they have had all of their barrels built since severing their barrel contract with DPMS.  I have NEVER seen a negative word uttered about those barrels and they have performed quite well.  

Of the 125 barrels that went out, as mentioned above, I have had 2 individuals come to me with issues.  One was FTFs that could not be replicated by myself using different weights and brands of ammunition.  The second was FTFs with 77 grain handloads.  This barrel worked fine for me with Wolff and other brands of ammo as well.  Why the original owner had issues, I do not know.  In both cases, I took care of my customer.  

I constantly read threads here about issues people have with Bushmaster, DPMS, RRA and yes, even Colt products.  Everyone has products that slip through with issues.  Obviously, some of these barrels have had issues.  HOWEVER, my personal barrel has 750+ rounds through it and has had ZERO issues.  This includes a broad spectrum of ammo brands and weights as well as full auto fire.  In addition, my personal upper, which BTW was NOT hand picked but just grabbed out of a big pile of barrels, is at least as accurate as my LMT upper, if not more so.

I have had NUMEROUS customers write me and say their barrels have performed fantastic and are being utilized as duty weapons.  As with any weapon, however, they have run numerous rounds through them prior to deploying them in such a manner.  Something that is ALWAYS recommended.  Capn_Crunch recently spoke with me and had nothing but praise for his upper and said he was quite impressed with the accuracy he has seen out of it.  K9DPD utilizes his to teach LEO classes in his home state and has been please as well.  These are just 2 examples, but they are indicative of the response I have received.  

Haven spoken to CMMG throughout this entire thing, I am aware of 2 or maybe 3 folks who have even contacted CMMG directly about the barrels and no one was screwed by them.  As a matter of fact, they are surprised at the emotions being thrown around here and how these emotions contrast with the number of folks who have contacted them.  

I hear people saying they have "heard" of other respected members having issues, and yet none of them have taken the time to contact me and discuss the issues.  My contact information is quite easy to obtain.  IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM, THEN CONTACT ME OR CMMG, NOT ANOTHER MEMBER OF THE BOARD JUST TO GRIPE AND COMPLAIN!!!!

As for the accusation being thrown out about Hawkeye having connections with CMMG, I am just flabbergasted!  I speak with Hawkeye fairly often and to the best of my knowledge, he has never even spoken with the folks from CMMG.  And furthermore, there are but a handful people here that I would truly trust, but Hawkeye is one of them.  He is doing his job of moderating and is most definitely not taking sides.  As a matter of fact, He decided to request a refund early on as opposed to take delivery of one of these barrels.  

I also take offense at the insinuation that all Group Buys here on AR15.com go sour.  I have personally overseen two other buys that went off without a hitch, those being a GB for Camelbaks last year and a special purchase of custom made A1 carry handles.  

Do I wish this had all gone smoother?  You betcha!  I have learned a ton on this adventure.  Quite costly lessons, but lessons nontheless.  If I could turn back the clock and fix everything, I would.  However, if you now have a mid length barrel on order from Denny or Sabre, or are anticipating the GB that Grant is planning with Bravo Company, you probably need to thank this GB for that.  I took a step of faith and moved forward with an idea to try to address a need I saw here from all of you, that being a desire for a 4150, 1/7 twist, chrome lined mid length barrel.  We proved that there was sufficient demand and folks are now beginning to profit from this pioneering effort.  I'm glad to see that in this respect, my Group Buy was a success.  I also know of a number of folks, including myself, who are quite please with these barrels and will be shooting them for years to come.  

Quoted: As a matter of fact, He decided to request a refund early on as opposed to take delivery of one of these barrels.

More like a......re-allocation of funds.


Edited to add..... Lets see, since I have been on ARFcom, I have worked/been in league with (according to members)......ARMS, Bushmaster, Trijicon, Aimpoint, and now CMMG. What I want to know is......where the heck is all my paychecks and/or free gear?????

Quoted: Quoted: As a matter of fact, He decided to request a refund early on as opposed to take delivery of one of these barrels.   More like a......re-allocation of funds.

Very true, and thanks for your business!

Giff

Quoted: Quoted: WOW! I was amazed to find out about this thread from someone in the industry today.  I've been pretty inactive the last 6 weeks or so due to being layed off from work, a hard drive crash that wiped out most everything I had, and other family issues that have taken much of my time and energy.   Oh God, it always starts with the pitty party request as if no one else has problems.

For someone who has no clue about his (Giff's) situation, and who has already made posts on this board saying that a former Marine does not deserve to be thankded for his service, and is now making making insinuations towards me being in league with an industry partner simply because I am a mod, your starting to piss me off. DROP IT. NOW.

Quoted: Oh God, it always starts with the pitty party request as if no one else has problems.

Seriously, don't put that foot in your open mouth. Giff is a good guy and has had a very eventful year. Take Hawkeye's advice.

Quoted: Quoted: WOW! I was amazed to find out about this thread from someone in the industry today.  I've been pretty inactive the last 6 weeks or so due to being layed off from work, a hard drive crash that wiped out most everything I had, and other family issues that have taken much of my time and energy.   Oh God, it always starts with the pitty party request as if no one else has problems.

And this is from someone with a scripture in his sig line!

Was I asking for a pity party?  NO!  I was providing some background as to why I have not been around much this last 6 weeks.  Could I have left it out?  Sure, but then come the invariable questions and insinuations as to where was I in the midst of this.  I would much rather be up front with people than allow any sort of imaginations to come into play.  

I consider myself a strong Christian and am more than a little offended that you let your mouth run like this while proclaiming the word of God.  You have NO idea what the past 20 months have brought to my family nor do you have any idea the number of hours I have put into this barrel over the last year or more.  

You want to show off your Christianity, do it with more than a quote on some internet forum board!  Get down on your knees and say some prayers for me and my family!


Thanks to everyone else who jumped in here!  Overall, the support I have seen from this board has been fantastic.  THANKS!!!!