AR Sponsor
Posted: 5/1/2005 11:52:09 AM EDT
I've got a Bushmaster A3 upper with BM 16" HBAR fluted. The thing has never given me better than 3.75" @ 100yds. Is there something worth doing to improve, or would I be advised to give up and buy a new complete "Recce" barreled upper from one of our board builders? Would love to achieve sub moa groups, but would settle for 1.5-2" if I could keep what I have and not spend a fortune on upgrades. Suggestions
|
|
what type of ammo are you using? what postion are you shooting in? is the throw levers tight on the upper? is the screws that mount the acog tight in the mount? what is the round count on the barrel? have you shot better with other ar's? a lot of things you are not telling us that would help us answer you question is not stated. i have a superlight busmaster with a ta31 donut and i could hold moa to sub-moa if i really try. but thats with black hills 68gr remans. wolf sometimes doesnt even touch paper. the rifle is only as good as the one behind the trigger. 
|
|
|
My A2 Bushmaster 14.5" HBAR loves Q3131A and will usually shoot a 1.25" or better 100 yard group under near ideal conditions. This is with a TA31 ACOG and my poor eyesight, Harris bipod, and a Minolta 250 mirror lens case as a rear rest. Check the barrel nut torque first thing. |
You nailed that one AR-Guy! Ouch is right. Bigbore and the others don't know a thing about me. With 30+ years of shooting under my belt, some under professional circumstances, his comment was uncalled for. Pehaps I should have know better than to seek advise from "computer" experts. Maybe I don't qualify as a member of the "club" Offense taken, but cheers to all those offering respectful constructive input. 
|
| I would first make sure your mounts are tight and not shooting loose, then I would try a different brand of ammo ( one of the better brands like Black Hills) and see what happens after that. Try to eliminate all variables that can affect accuracy and that should tell you if it's something easily fixed or if it's the barrel. Good Luck |
Lighten up Francis, it was a joke. I do suggest you let a couple other people shoot the rifle with quality ammo and see what kind of results they get. If you are sure its the equipment, and not the wolff ammo you are shooting(another joke) You should contact BM. Any AR that shoots no better than 3.75" at 100yds, is a dud and needs to be sent back to the factory. There is something wrong with it. |
|
You using crappy blasting ammo and expect 1" groups? Your on crack.... If your rifel shoots Q3131A well tis the exception and not the rule. My 14.5" Bushmaster M4 1/7 barrel did 2-3" with Q3131A depending on the day and 1" groups with 75 grain Black Hills OTM. You want 1 MOA accuarcy get 1 MOA ammo and quit considering upgrades that will still be struggling to give you with Q3131A what you could have with quality match ammo. If 75 wont shoot because you have a 1/9 barrel then 69grain ammo will give you what you desire without the need for expensive upgrades like a new barrel that you could have accomplished with something as simple as better ammo. Rule of thumb... you want match accuacy? Use match ammo. I still dont know why you said "I'm talking about Q3131A, and I'm not really interested in how it shoots with anything else. " Why is this? It makes no sense considering your desired accuracy level. I would not be suprised if you did not even get that good of results with a match barrel by using ammo thats not very accurate (Q3131A). I have fired match barreled ARs that could not shoot better than 2 MOA with Q3131A and others that could do about an inch. These same barrels were easily sub MOA with match ammo. |
|
DevL, I believe you misread my posts. Some others were talking about moa and sub moa. I stated right from the start, that I was interested in 1.5-2" and that I thought 3.75" was unacceptable. I also said I was only interested in the performance of Q3131A because I'm very familiar with what can be achieved with match ammo. This is a tactical carbine and I believe it should shoot decently with M193, and thusfar I don't think it has. |
|
Do you have a standard trigger? If so, a 2-stage might help you improve the groups a bit. Over 3 MOA groups don't sound right to me, my RRA is a solid 1.5 MOA shooter with South-African surpluss ammo (similar to the M193). I would follow the suggestions given above, try some different ammo just to see how it performs and then proceed to check if everything else is OK with your rifle. The ACOG's triangle reticle might not be the best type of reticle for shooting groups. How does it shoot with ironsights? You could try mounting a different type of scope on the rifle and see if it makes a difference. |
It is a standard trigger, and my groups did get a little better after "Flitz" polishing the engagement surfaces, which led me to believe a better trigger could help. |
|
Have you tried XM193? Some barrels like some ammo better than others. Still if its a "tactical carbine" that requires match grade (you originally said 1-2" not 1.5-2")accuracy you should use match ammo since it has superior terminal ballistics. My personal opinion is than Q3131A is adequate for 50 yards and under training and defensive use but if you want to extend your range in both terminal ballistics and accuracy you need match ammo. |
Put electrical tape over top of the fiber optic tube. I never could shoot much better than 2.5 inches at 100 with XM193 before I did that. I think most of it is for some reason I tend to pick difficult lighting conditions for shooting groups. The tape makes the reticle bloom much less and gives a sharper aiming point. Just friendly tip that helped me some.
|
|
I think DevL comments pretty well sum up my experience. I have a White Oak varment barrel (22", 1:7) with 16x scope, free float , match trigger, etc. Shot it today at 100 yds from bench with substantial front rest and rabbit ear rear bag. Results: Hornady 68g match = .5" Hornady 75g otm = .8" SA 55g = 1.5" Fed XM193 = 1.0" Sierra 55g BlitzKing = .6" Q3131A = 1.8" I'm still working up the match loads and expect better groups from them soon. The Q3131A is the least accurate I have fired in any of my rifles. I like it for what it is, but expect around 2 MOA. I get 1.25 to 1.7 from XM193 in a variety of chrome lined carbines and rifles. Approachiing 4" seems a bit out of line, even for Q3131A. All of my rifles are 1:7 twist and that may not yield the same results as a 1:9 for the 55g bullets. I frequently see shooters doing a little better on the lighter bullets with slower twist barrels. P.S. I only report 10 shot groups. They shrink a lot if ya only shoot 3. |
AR Sponsor