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Posted: 4/23/2005 7:58:08 AM EDT
| Does an HBar barrel have a longer life as far as number of rounds than a lighter barrel? If so, wouldn't this make it better for a SHTF carbine? |
heh, not tryin to be mean, but I kinda chuckle at people who buy thousands of rounds of ammo and dozens of mags for SHTF. The reality is you probably wont make it through 5 mags before you yourself and taken out. Just a fact of life. Unless you have an NFA item. 
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| I think that you need to expand your definition of SHTF, unless of course you want to end up unprepared. SHTF applications for ammunition extend beyond fire-fights. What about hunting? You won't be doing much chuckling when your starving to death. What about if/when the gun-grabbers make buying ammunition illegal or impossible. How many generations are you going to be able to pass down/make last your ammo? HAHAHA I feel stupid now. |
| ...Besides, thats like saying that its pointless to wear your seatbelt because the chances of it saving your life on the way to the grocery-store are like 100,000 to 1. I don't want to die because I decided it was more important to buy more beer than to stock up on an item that is so useful/versatile/possibly life-saving, holds its re-sale value, and is a vital component to one of my hobbies (shooting) that I know that I will eventually use. Stocking up on SHTF ammo is no more ridiculous or excessive of a precaution than having a carbine or rifle for SHTF purposes to begin with. Everyone knows that the first self-defense weapon (besides your mind and the effort to stay out of bad situations to begin with) to have is a pistol accessable that everyone in your house knows how to safely use, and a CCW permit. The only self-defense situation in which a firearm would be necessary that there is really any significant chance of occurence for any of us to ever be in is a criminal attack of some sort. Not one that gives you the notice to go get your rifle, but one that happens in a split-second and the only thing you will have time to do if you're lucky is draw that pistol that you were lucky enough to have near. If you are going to spend the extra effort (which I think that every American should just as a matter of principle, not because there is a likely chance of needing it) to have a SHTF long gun, one that is for more than just sporting or recreation, than it doesn't really hurt to stock up on ammo either. Besides, I don't know about you, but if I was ever in a SHTF scenerio, I sure as hell plan on living longer than 5 magazines. I hope that I never have to expend 5 magazines in such a situation, but I am not going to set myself up for failure. You have a loser's attitude. |
| Another thing too, is that sometimes I can afford to replace my ammo every time that I go to the range, and then sometimes there will be a stretch when things are tight and I can't afford it. I like to be able to not have to feel like I don't want to go shooting because I will use up all of my ammo before I can afford to replace it. Because of this, I figure that I might as well put the shit is water-proof tins too. Granted, I do try not to go below an excessive amount of ammunition, but like I said, I am not planning on only needed this ammo in case of a Red army siege outside my front door, and will need enough ammo to kill 5,000 chineese. You need to think a little bit broader, or just recognize the fact that having a SHTF gun is mostly just a piece of mind to begin with, just like my 5,000 rounds of ammo. |
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I'm not saying you shouldnt have lots of mags or ammo, not by any stretch. I'm just saying to justify these purchases because of a SHTF situation is a bid ridiculous. Honestly, if civilization goes to hell in a handbasket do you really truly think your tactics and training are so much better then everyone elses that you will live to shoot up 5000 rounds of ammo? Lets be realistic here. Ole Ted hidin in a bush with his deer rifle might drop you with 1 shot and you'll never even see it coming. Again, not saying you dont need alot, but justifying it simply by saying "SHTF" doesnt make me have a loser attitude, it makes me have a realistic attitude. I wouldnt live long enough in a real SHTF situation to live past probably 500 rounds of ammo. |
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I do understand where you are coming from, but like I said, there are other situations that you are not thinking of that fall under my definition of SHTF. Like if something were to happen that would make me unable to buy ammunition ever again, I want to be able to have enough to last. Also, Imagine some SHTF scenerio where you are able to escape to some National park or something. You are going to need to be able to hunt. You also might want training ammunition, not only for yourself, but for those who are with you. Besides, if we are talking a war-time environment, such as invasion by a foreign power, then it is possible that you could live long enough to expend a lot of ammunition. Just look at any of the wars in history, are you telling me that guys in vietnam only burned through 500 rounds the entire year that they were there? Maybe maybe not. Your point is valid, in the sense that more than likely you will never need more than a case of ammo, because if you are involved in that many engagements the chances of you surviving are pretty small. But there are plenty of reasons to justify having a lot of ammunition. You might not be the only person who is relying on your stash of ammo. Like I said, I totally understand what you are saying. But I would much rather have way too much than not enough. Remember the guy in the tremors movies? haha. |
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I decided to buy my first pistol as a result of a specific experience when I was overly vulnerable and suddenly realized "Crap, I'm totally vulnerable right now". (Its a semi long story) My point is this. I have decided to buy (my research has led me to probably pick RRA) a SHTF rifle. Not because of Red Dawn/Dawn of the Dead scenario, but because of things like the LA riots. I was stationed at Fort Campbell, KY in 1995. In 1994 there was a huge icestorm and the region was without power, etc for about 2 weeks. In 1995, a weatherman said that an icestorm was possible. Within the next few days people were....people. The supermarkets were bare and people were fist-fighting for loaves a bread in 7-11 parking lots. So the SHTF scenario that I think of is when a few jerks decide that I have something (whether it be my food or daughters) that they like and are willing to kill me to get it. Don't get me wrong, I will share my food in hard times...but some people don't want me to share...they want it ALL! In a riot situation, people get stupid...just looke at Wildest Police Videos. I dont want some idiot yelling "Lets get those (insert last name here) girls..." and then all the idiots try to break my door in ..... You might say its unrealistic, but c'mon, parts of LA were burned down over an unwelcomed verdict. The rioters weren't rioting the verdict, they were rioting to riot under the 'umbrella' of racial injustice. It wouldnt take more than some minority getting killed by a white police officer caught on video to send your neighborhood into an overnight bonfire. The SHTF doesnt have to last into the millenium...it just has to occur long enough for your home to be targeted. I think having a stockpile of rounds is good. Do I need 3 pallets of tracer rounds...no. But I think its fair for you to stock what you think you need, and I will stock what I think I need. Remember, if you have a stockpile of anything...you are a target for when that commodity becomes scarce. THoughts? |
Like I said, I completely understand where your coming from too. 
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SpecOp: Of course, talking to you has made me do some thinking, and now I feel a little better because I was struggling between putting money into the final upgrades of my carbine and the need I felt to be able to have 5,000 rounds on hand. You have made some good points and I think that I might just change my minimun ammunition quota to like 3,000. Still more than enough for any scenario that I can think of. Now the last struggle I have to resolve within myself is the fact that I love my EOtech but would feel so much better with a plain iron sight rifle. I don't want to be worrying about batteries, but I don't want to get shot because I did not have the speed the EOtech brings. I guess if I can just decide whether or not this is a matter of training with the Iron Sights or if you can ever get the same level of performance with irons, especially when you are shitting your pants and people are shooting at you. PowerChord: Those are some good points. That is what I try to tell people too, they have a false sense of security regarding the stability of our society. One bad economic or political event could cause some serious powder keg type results in any society, as history and human nature has repeatedly shown. But there is another aspect of all of this to me. I feel that my family should have the means of self-defense as a matter of principle. Self-defense, and the means for it, is a basic human right and should be available to everyone, regardless of whether it is likely to be required or not. The chances that a SHTF scenario is ever going to happen in our life, while possible, is about maybe a little greater than the chances of getting struck by lighting. Criminal attacks in another thing, but that isn't really what my rifle is for, since I probably won't have it if that ever happens. But the real philosophical position here is that I feel that as a matter of principle I should be capable of protecting my family and not rely on the good will of mankind for their safety and security. For me to do so would be wrong. Because SHTF type scenarios are actual possible, then just the idea that some would forcibly remove my meger means of protection if they had their way, really chaps my ass. Nobody should have that kind of power over my family and nobody owns my family. I came from my mother, and the only people who have any claim on me is my mother and God. No one has the right to rob myself or my wife of the means of self-defense. To do so would be an act of aggression, period. I also feel that being armed, and spending a small, reasonable amount of time preparing for SHTF type scenarios makes me a good American. Any nation with the guts to invade our country, whether it be now or 500 years from now, is in for a nasty ass suprise. Unless of course more and more mentally lazy people decide that their own security is solely the responsibility of those of us in the Armed Forces, and feel that lifting a finger to help us ensure their security and the long-term security of our nation makes them a "gun nut." |
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