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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - New Free Float Rail system (Page 1 of 6)
Posted: 11/24/2004 2:52:51 AM EDT
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Anyone see this... http://www.samson-mfg.com/ar15 great pricing |
+2 Just had a call from Cheryl. Guys, if I were you I would NOT place an order with Sampson no matter how good of a deal this looks like. |
Hmmm, scooter2 is registered as NH native, Samson as MA, pretty close distances....... 
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Well Scooter2 is Samson MFG These are not seconds. All of the units out there were made by Samson MFG We are just a new direct player no different than YHM, or KAC cutting out the middle man(not by choice) We are a Govt contractor (cage 037r7 Look it up) We just need to be paid for what we make... Give us a try and save some bucks or pay big bucks and get the same thing or SLAM SLAM SLAM Scott |
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OK, but say my loc-tite job wasnt that good and one starts to work loose?? And with the lense caps, the battery tube and front lense itself all being more prominent, how am I going to snag a recessed screw hole? |
So if all the current MRF's were made by Samson and they are now shopping for a new manufacturer with excellent QC (hard to find), how long does this push back their schedule for getting MRF's out to the public? |
Actually they are NOT looking for a new manufacturer (found one some time ago) so you should only see a minimal delay. C4 |
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I smell a rat. First, the bogus 'third party' SCOOTER2 post. Then the later admission it's really Sampson. No credibility from the beginning. Yaw, I'd trust that product... Looks like an out-of-control vendor trying to extort the designer for whatever issue. Bad way to go about business..especially in this small industry. Sampson, I hear your mom calling you. |
 C4 |
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All I do know is we don't have all the facts. Both parties claim to have designed the product. None of us have actually SEEN the contractual agreements between the companies to know if Samson is in breech of contract or not. Troy taking them to court doesn't mean anything if the facts are in Samson's favor. Of course if the facts are in Troy's favor you can say bye-bye Samson. The talk of QC not being good enough is just that until some evidence is shown. Maybe Troy can post some pics/examples of rails they received that did not meet QC requirements. If I had a dollar for every time I've heard one manufacturer say another parties QC isn't good just to steer business their way I'd be rolling in it. I am in NO WAY acusing Troy of doing this as I have no evidence nor do I believe they are doing this. But it is not outside the realm of possibility until proof can be shown in one direction or another. I'm not about to jump on the Troy lynch-mob train just because it's popular until I have EVIDENCE in either direction. I believe fully in the free market which means I also believe in the laws that protect intellectual property. I don't condemn YHM for going direct instead of through Bushmaster, etc. because it was done LEGALLY and I still usually end up buying YHM products from vendors on these forums anyway. If YHM breeched contracts with BM in order to go direct to the public, I would have a problem with that. If Samson is indeed in breech of contract or IP rights.. may they rot in hell. If not, bring on the competition. In god I trust, all others must show evidence. |
*phew* Good news!  Also, if this is true and Samson & Troy broke ties awhile back (not recently), SOMEONE is copying the MOD3 design upgrade from the other. Whichever it is, even with what past contracts they did have, that's going to be a tough one to defend. I am sure they will pay $$$ big time in court. 
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 You don't need a review! It is the TROY MRF series! www.troyind.comC4 |
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Troy holds the patent pending on the rail systems in question. It should be a simple matter to get a cease and desist order and that will be that. I also feel strongly the the beginning of this thread was extremely deceitful, pretending to be just another innocent poster saying "Hey looky what I stumbled over". Bull fucking shit. This asshat is not gointg to get a dime of my business. Denny 
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Ya see, this is why I like Denny, no question on where he stands!  C4 |
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Is there any connection between Sampson and Sage International? I ask because it seems there are two companies competing with Troy's products. First the M14 SOPMOD, now the M16 MRF family. If scooter2 could please explain his association with Troy and if any with Sage, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Sammy |
Tagged to see if scooter shows back up to defend his products and his post ETA: patent pending is a lot different from having a US patent. This make take years to sort out. In my industry, several manufacturers will work to design simillar versions of the same thing. Many times, the patents are held by individual designers and the sell the rights to several companies to manufacture different versions. What I would like to know is how is this product different from the Troy system? I suggest scooter2 come back to the forum and start over. "Hi my name is Scott. I make FF handguards. Here they are. Please buy some."  Maybe I should get some popcorn for this... |
If Troy does hold the patent I hope they get the cease and desist order quickly before some poor sap buys one from Samson and then is stuck with it. |
I am waiting to pass judgement on this. IIRC, Daniel Defense was not really thrilled with the LARue system. And Midwest Ind has a copy of the GG&G rail system HERE With a FF rail system I would be curious to see exacly what can be covered in the patent or design that would make it illegal for someone else to produce. And if it is well made, I would not expect many product returns. |
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Strick909, the MI does not free float the barrel. You can plainly see the delta ring and handguard cap to secure the rails, which the GG&G model does not use. If Daniels was not to happy about LaRue, then Knights was certainly not too happy about Daniels and so on. Between the three, all have the same basic premise of design, but there are enough differences to negate any legal action. What Samson is doing is taking Troys design, making it without any significant alteration and selling it as their own, without any compensation. Why no compensation........because they obviously do not have a license to produce the units. |
The Troy and Samson is a exact copy, but that brings up an interesting point: As a general rule, I wonder what would consitute patent infringement when it comes to various other designs of tactical free floats or any other parts for that matter? Buy the way, you are correct . . . we have sold the GG&G and MI forearms, and other than the feature of removeable rails, the systems themselves could not be more different. |
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My guess and this is only a guess is the Patent claims would revolve around the method of attachment of the rail system to the upper. The Troy system is unique in the way it attaches and I like the hell out of it. The Samson rail is an EXACT copy and there in lies their problem. They are most likely pissed at losing the contract with Steve Troy and taking a shot. I am sure Troy Ind did not enter into an agreement with a manufacturer of their major products with out an extensive and detailed agreement. We are not talking nickles and dimes here. I know Steve and he is nobody's fool. Somebody is on very thin ice and I don't why people try this crap. Denny |
The diff. between the KAC, LT and DD FF rails really comes down to minor differences. The LT has their locking key which is the MAIN difference between the KAC and the DD. There are also small diff. between width and height.... C4 |
I agree. If Samson is in violation of any previous agreements with Troy, or commiting a patent violation, I am sure they will be taken to court and it will be settled there. But , if it turns out that there is no valid patent, or Samson proves in court that they contributed enough to the design that they would own part of the design, I would be willing to give them a second chance. If I gave in to every internet flame fest consisting of "OOOH! YOU COPIED!" I would only own ARMS products.
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Wow, interesting point! Anyway, it would be good to know if Samson is breaking some copyright law or something like that. I dont know the first thing about laws like that, but I dont want to presume anything either. If they have the legal right to make and sell the product, then we shouldnt be so quick to jump on their case. Either way, you arent really supposed to post ads to items for sale in the forum. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - New Free Float Rail system (Page 1 of 6)
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