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Posted: 11/8/2003 1:26:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/8/2003 4:24:25 AM EDT by Cato]
Hi!
Here in Austria Ar15 design gun were only recently allowed. However, officials stipulated that the original Ar15 bolt must not fit. So the company who sells these rifles removes one of the bolt lugs- the one opposite the extractor. They say this one has no function anyway. Opinions please!

Thanks

Cato
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 3:00:57 AM EDT
Let me get this straight you can't have an AR15 BOLT? not a Bolt carrier but the BOLT? Hummmmm as for removing one of the locking lugs I would imagine it would weaken lock up. But I guess if ya had to loose one that would be the one to loose. So are you allowed full auto over there? IPSC_GUY sends
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 6:42:19 AM EDT
Makes sence to me, the extractor does not have a working lock (rather just a projection designed to strengthen extraction in the first 3/4inch or rearward travel) The lug on the other side might not be acted on by much force and might even unbalance the system (given the give that the extractors lack of a lug might allow.) [b]Just my theoretical take on it, I'm sure Eugene Stoner would have noticed something that simple.[/b] I wouldn't be worried though the Ar bolt will function minus a couple lugs, the M4 carbine has proven that. (the 10 and 2 o'clock lugs have in extreme cases been known to shear off after 10,000rds of burst fire, with a lot of pressure on the foregrip.
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 3:22:36 PM EDT
The AR bolt only has 7 lugs to begin with... If you grind one off, you're weakening it by 14%... I think I would go ahead with whatever these people want, in order to get the AR in your hands, and then put 7 lug bolt in...Keep 6 lug bolt for inspections...
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 3:50:26 PM EDT
I have read that some smiths grind down the back of the lug opposite the extractor so that is does not contact the barrel extension lug, thus balancing the forces on the bolt. It is, in theory, supposed to keep the case strighter in the chamber and aid in accuracy or some such sh!t. Anyway it is done with no apparent catasrophic affects.
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 4:39:27 PM EDT
Grinding off the back of the lug is common practice with match rifles. Your Austrian company will have to submit the rifle to one of the big proof houses anyway, and they'll proof it with a special cartridge. Home built would be questionable, but not commercial built and proofed. -- Chuck
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 4:39:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Cato: Hi! Here in Austria Ar15 design gun were only recently allowed. However, officials stipulated that the original Ar15 bolt must not fit. So the company who sells these rifles removes one of the bolt lugs- the one opposite the extractor. They say this one has no function anyway. Opinions please! Thanks Cato
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I don't understand. If you ground off the lug on your bolt that wouldn't stop anyone elses AR15 bolt from fitting. If you ground off one of the locking lugs in the extension same thing. Now if you built a bolt and extension with the area between 2 teeth filled in, essentially a big locking lug, that would seem to prevent any regular bolt from working. But that is not what you seem to be saying. am i missing something?
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 5:38:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By curt:
Originally Posted By Cato: Hi! Here in Austria Ar15 design gun were only recently allowed. However, officials stipulated that the original Ar15 bolt must not fit. So the company who sells these rifles removes one of the bolt lugs- the one opposite the extractor. They say this one has no function anyway. Opinions please! Thanks Cato
View Quote
I don't understand. If you ground off the lug on your bolt that wouldn't stop anyone elses AR15 bolt from fitting. If you ground off one of the locking lugs in the extension same thing. Now if you built a bolt and extension with the area between 2 teeth filled in, essentially a big locking lug, that would seem to prevent any regular bolt from working. But that is not what you seem to be saying. am i missing something?
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No one ever said gun control laws were logical...
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 6:10:48 AM EDT
Thanks for all the replys! I forgot to mention- the barrel area where this removed barrel lug was supposed to lock in, is also modified- hence a real Ar15 bolt won't fit. And yes, every firarm here is subjected to a proof house loads which are quite overpressure. So I cross my fingers and hope that this modification isn't as bad as it sounds... Best Regards Cato
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 6:57:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Chuck: Grinding off the back of the lug is common practice with match rifles. -- Chuck
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Who exactly does this? I have dealt with a couple of match AR builders and own 3 of them. I would like to know who does this.
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 8:03:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By rebel_rifle:
Originally Posted By Chuck: Grinding off the back of the lug is common practice with match rifles. -- Chuck
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Who exactly does this? I have dealt with a couple of match AR builders and own 3 of them. I would like to know who does this.
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I am interested to know as well Cato: The my concern would not be with initial catastrophic failure (proof load) - just the issue already indicated, that the lugs in extreme cases, after much abuse, have been known to shear. Without some testing or a large sample to draw from, I would hesitate to put forward an opinion. If it concerns you, and its economical (I am assuming parts are dear), change out the bolt at a set limit. My gut tells me you'd have no issues though. Cato: Good to see ARs have been "approved". One question, suppressor use on this rifle? Dont know much about Austrian laws, but Eurogovs in general are much more suppressor friendly. Not that it may have much impact, but they do have a tendancy to stress things. To bad you dont live due West, be much less of an issue. Luck Alac
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 1:03:28 AM EDT
See... [url]http://www.armalite.com/library/techNotes/tnote13.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 6:26:41 AM EDT
Does Armalite do this on their .223 rifles? Couldnt find anything. Since they are modifying a number of bolt lugs, not removing one, this doesnt entirely satisfy me. I wonder if the barrel extension is modified. The lugs themselves are strengthened by tapering. As before, my gut tells me no issue, but the discprencies cause me to wonder why Armalite doesnt improve their .223 rifles. Maybe the original design parameters are adequate but the .308 required improvement? - speculation. I am sure, in America's litigious society, Armalite would not have made this change unless they were certain it enhanced safety. I'd still like to know who removes the lugs on the match rifles - and does it improve consistency. As a practical matter, it wouldnt bother me, but changes in design can have unintended effects. Doesnt sound like Cato has much of an option though. Luck Alac
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