FAQ: The Big Thread On FF & Railed Forends - Page 4

AR-15 » Rifles, Uppers, Lowers, Barrels, and more

AR Sponsor:

Site Notices

FAQ: The Big Thread On FF & Railed Forends (Page 4 of 8)

NickDrak

Member

Joined Jun 2004
Posts 445
EE 100% (38)

IL, USA

Posted: 1/19/2005 2:06:15 AM EDT

[#1]

Originally Posted By HELLFISH:
Hello. This has been a great thread, but I have a question. Are the diameters of all these forends pretty much the same, because I currently have an Olympic Arms FIRSH forend on my carbine, and I find the diameter wide enough to be uncomfortable. I'd like a smaller diamter, but with the top rail extended to stay flat with the upper receiver.

I cant say for sure as I have never handled one of the FIRSH forends, but by the looks of it from Olys' website, the FIRSH w/out panels looks fatter than the LaRue with a set of TangoDown panels mounted.

"One is no more "armed" because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." (Lt. COL. Jeff Cooper U.S.M.C.)

Beefypeanut Joined Nov 2004 Posts 226 EE 100% (1) CA, USA	Posted: 1/26/2005 10:17:37 PM EDT [Last Edit: Beefypeanut] [#2] What would some of you recomend for a two-piece rifle handguard? I'm thinking about First Samco, are they any good?

NickDrak

Member

Joined Jun 2004
Posts 457
EE 100% (38)

IL, USA

Posted: 1/27/2005 2:02:37 AM EDT

[#3]

Originally Posted By Beefypeanut:
What would some of you recomend for a two-piece rifle handguard? I'm thinking about First Samco, are they any good?

I would say NO. Especially if you plan on mounting anything on the rails. Unlike their ads illustrate, I would never mount a optical sight on their handguards rails. The only thing that would be acceptable to mount on those would be a light...Maybe. If money is your main concern, I would suggest going for a YHM.

"One is no more "armed" because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." (Lt. COL. Jeff Cooper U.S.M.C.)

Beefypeanut

Joined Nov 2004
Posts 227
EE 100% (1)

CA, USA

Posted: 1/27/2005 10:08:09 PM EDT

[#4]

Originally Posted By NickDrak:
Originally Posted By Beefypeanut:
What would some of you recomend for a two-piece rifle handguard? I'm thinking about First Samco, are they any good?

I would say NO. Especially if you plan on mounting anything on the rails. Unlike their ads illustrate, I would never mount a optical sight on their handguards rails. The only thing that would be acceptable to mount on those would be a light...Maybe. If money is your main concern, I would suggest going for a YHM.

My main concern is getting a good railed handguard. I don't need the absolute best, but I would like a fairly good one. Thanks for your help.

NickDrak Member Joined Jun 2004 Posts 461 EE 100% (38) IL, USA	Posted: 1/28/2005 6:53:28 AM EDT [#5] I would say go with the Larue 12.0 then. Not cheap, but reasonably priced for what you get.
	"One is no more "armed" because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." (Lt. COL. Jeff Cooper U.S.M.C.)

Beefypeanut Joined Nov 2004 Posts 234 EE 100% (1) CA, USA	Posted: 1/28/2005 6:53:20 PM EDT [#6] Thanks for your help.

55Kingpin Joined Aug 2002 Posts 302 EE 100% (88) VA, USA	Posted: 2/13/2005 8:46:16 PM EDT [#7] Can we get an update with the weight of the LaRue and Troy tubes??? Grant, you there?

EmanP

Joined Mar 2004
Posts 76
EE 99% (108)

WA, USA

Posted: 3/5/2005 9:06:03 PM EDT

[#8]

Could someone please add the LaRue weights to that chart?

7.0 - 11.5oz
9.0 - 13.2oz
12.0 - 16.5oz

For comparison here's DD

7.0 - 8.5oz
9.0 - 10.5oz
12.0 - 13.1oz

So I don't get it, if the LaRue rail is better, than why does a DD 9.0 weight less than a LaRue 7.0? Where does that extra weight come from on the LaRue's or should I say go on the DD? I mean 3.0oz's on the 7.0's is a huge difference!

nfalawyer

Joined Feb 2005
Posts 1
EE 0% (0)

CA, USA

Posted: 3/21/2005 2:40:51 AM EDT

[#9]

I recently tried installing a Yankee Hill Manufacturing 2-piece rail fore end on my Colt M4 upper (M4 upper receiver, M4 14.5" barrel). The only non-Colt part is a LaFrance gas tube system. The YHM top rail assembly does not clear the sheet metal tabs on the front handguard mount - looks like the rail was not machined to fit. My understanding was the YHM parts were mil-spec.

Anyone else had this problem? Looks like I'm going to have to mill it to fit. Any thoughts?

NickDrak Member Joined Jun 2004 Posts 586 EE 100% (38) IL, USA	Posted: 3/21/2005 2:47:09 AM EDT [Last Edit: NickDrak] [#10] The extra weight is likely from the LaRues steel barrel nut vs. DD's aluminum barrel nut.
	"One is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." (Lt. COL. Jeff Cooper U.S.M.C.)

chiz45

Team Member

Joined Feb 2001
Posts 1369
EE 100% (136)

NV, USA

Posted: 3/21/2005 8:50:45 AM EDT

[#11]

Originally Posted By nfalawyer:
I recently tried installing a Yankee Hill Manufacturing 2-piece rail fore end on my Colt M4 upper (M4 upper receiver, M4 14.5" barrel). The only non-Colt part is a LaFrance gas tube system. The YHM top rail assembly does not clear the sheet metal tabs on the front handguard mount - looks like the rail was not machined to fit. My understanding was the YHM parts were mil-spec.

Anyone else had this problem? Looks like I'm going to have to mill it to fit. Any thoughts?

Yep. They are designed to be tight. I had a helluva time trying to fit mine, and I called YHM about it. Actually, I posted just like you, and a YHM rep IM'ed me through the board to call him. I sent the upper to them, and they installed it for me.

jmkrick Joined Sep 2001 Posts 31 EE 100% (4) PA, USA	Posted: 3/25/2005 5:13:24 PM EDT [#12] Has anyone here tried the Surefire M73 rails that are on the D.E.A carbines? Are they steady enough to mount a red dot sight on and not move around? How are these installed? Are they one piece, two piece, do they require the barrel or front sight to be removed for installation? Thanks for any help on this in advance.

nfalawyer

Joined Feb 2005
Posts 34
EE 0% (0)

CA, USA

Posted: 4/2/2005 12:43:35 AM EDT

[#13]

Problem resolved on the YHM foreend. We machined down the front so that it would fit. Very snug and rock solid. My Surefire M900A foregrip doesn't have any discernible play. Tango Down rail covers slipped right on and snapped in.

Paid only $100.00 for the YHM foreend, and it seems like a true bargain considering what folks are asking for a KAC RAS these days.

gunnut284 Joined Aug 2001 Posts 169 EE 100% (226) FL, USA	Posted: 4/2/2005 2:55:21 PM EDT [#14] I had the Surefire M73 handguards on my carbine. They were very solid, I would think an optic should be fine. They are two piece and easy to install. I got rid of them only because I sold the upper and got a mid-length. I'm going to put a FF rail on it. Still haven't decided whether to use the YHM or go up to the Larue.

twise

Joined Dec 2004
Posts 47
EE 0% (0)

TX, USA

Posted: 4/11/2005 3:05:18 PM EDT

[Last Edit: twise] [#15]

In case anybody was wondering, the RRA Midlength handguards + delta ring weight 7oz.

Originally Posted By NickDrak:
The LaRue's "LIVE FREE OR DIE" logo is a big + also.
hr

Haha, I'm glad I wasn't the only person whose decision to go with LaRue was influenced by the LIVE FREE OR DIE engraving.

bonepickerx Joined Apr 2005 Posts 4 EE 100% (3) NM, USA	Posted: 4/14/2005 12:17:41 AM EDT [#16] I just bought an Olympic K3BM4A3TC with the firsh handguards. They are fat and seem fatter than any other AR-15 free flaoted that I have held befor. They get even wider when you put the rail covers on. But if you have large hands they actually feel more comfortable.

Valmet62 Joined Apr 2005 Posts 2 EE 100% (1) AL, USA	Posted: 4/25/2005 11:13:30 PM EDT [#17] What rail system will fit a Colt National match heavy barrel? Thanks Chris

supertrucker Joined Sep 2004 Posts 340 EE 0% (0) NC, USA	Posted: 5/7/2005 11:53:44 PM EDT [#18] Tagged for later.

Subzero I know Gucci when I see it Joined Dec 2002 Posts 177 EE 100% (30) VA, USA	Posted: 5/10/2005 5:08:02 PM EDT [#19] From this link:
	Bullets! My only weakness!

FALna45 Joined Jul 2003 Posts 280 EE 0% (0) MI, USA	Posted: 5/18/2005 6:16:18 PM EDT [#20] does anyone have a pic of a DCM float tube w/ rail gas block ahead of it? please!

WS6_Keith Member Joined Oct 2001 Posts 202 EE 100% (47) NV, USA	Posted: 5/25/2005 1:01:03 AM EDT [#21] Here's two new points we can add: Hiperform 7" (CAR?) length carbon fiber FF tube w/aluminum barrel nut - 7.7oz Hiperform 5" (pistol) length carbon fiber FF tube w/aluminum barrel nut - 6.7oz :)

sovereign Joined Oct 2001 Posts 940 EE 100% (58) CO, USA	Posted: 5/31/2005 11:10:13 AM EDT [#22] What is the weight of a Larue 13.2?

snapcap Joined Jul 2004 Posts 64 EE 0% (0) DEU	Posted: 6/6/2005 12:31:48 PM EDT [#23] Does anyone have any info on the sixsided freefloat tube offered by DPMS? The idea sounds good, low price.

jr1572 Joined May 2004 Posts 44 EE 100% (10) LA, USA	Posted: 6/25/2005 8:42:20 PM EDT [#24] I want to get a FF rail for my colt 6450 to mount my Trijicon reflex, but I don't know which one to get. My reflex is in an A.R.M.S. #15 mount. Will it sit high enough to co-witness the sights. Which rail would be best? Thanks [email protected]

EARRNHARDT3

Joined Jan 2005
Posts 56
EE 100% (202)

IA, USA

Posted: 6/26/2005 4:48:40 PM EDT

[Last Edit: EARRNHARDT3] [#25]

I have a set of the new MI 2-piece 4-rail hand guards from Bravo Co. and they are really great . they fit tight. The best thing i like it that they are marked like the T-marked uppers they have T numbers on top R numbres on the right side and L on left side and B on the bottom rails. All for $120.00 great for the price i think.

img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/bravocompanyusa/MIltwtsidebco400.jpg
img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/bravocompanyusa/MI2pccoltbox.jpg

r4nger Joined Jun 2005 Posts 149 EE 0% (0) UT, USA	Posted: 8/21/2005 1:44:52 AM EDT [Last Edit: r4nger] [#26] Anyone know the weight of standard rifle length plastic handguards? I want to get an idea of how much heavier the FF handguard will be.

Timinem Joined Jul 2005 Posts 36 EE 100% (19) AK, USA	Posted: 9/4/2005 1:33:16 PM EDT [#27] Sorry if this has been posted before. Does anyone know what is the absolute lightest option available for a flat top w/ free floated tube. (No rails necessary) I have been looking at Houges and Bushmasters V-Match. I need a 16-20" barell with a milled front sight, am considering fluted for less weight. Also need the free float. Any suggestions? Thank you

Polizei-Berlin Joined Sep 2005 Posts 7 EE 0% (0) DEU	Posted: 9/12/2005 4:45:03 AM EDT [#28] Hi all, has someone informations about the FF4RHG from Sabre Defense ? Thanks.

1Gunner Member Joined Sep 2004 Posts 3062 EE 100% (15) VA, USA	Posted: 9/30/2005 10:21:45 PM EDT [#29] Anyone tell me about 2-piece handguards for midlength Armalite with trigular plate? Thks.

Manx

Joined Oct 2005
Posts 1
EE 0% (0)

MI, USA

Posted: 10/5/2005 2:43:14 PM EDT

[Last Edit: Manx] [#30]

I didn't see anyone list the Brugger & Thomet Quad Rails. These are not free floating, but like the KAC RAS. These are the handguards that will most likely be used by The Netherlands for their mid-life upgrade program for the Diemaco C7 and C8 rifles.

Weight for full length = 512 grams, or 18.07 ounces.
Weight for carbine length = 305 grams, or 10.76 ounces.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/bravo551/BTquadrails.jpg

Lancelot

Team Member

Joined Jan 2001
Posts 4331
EE 100% (9)

CO, USA

Posted: 10/13/2005 12:45:29 PM EDT

[Last Edit: Lancelot] [#31]

The new MI rifle length forearm is out.

Specs are:

Model: MCTAR-19
Materials: 6061-T6 aluminum construction
Weight: 20.0 ounces
Finish: Hard coat anodized

Features:
MIL-STD 1913 rails
No gunsmith installation
Laser engraved T-marks
MI Off Set Rail compatible
ETA - It is NOT Grenade launcher or shotgun compatible with lower section removed (My mistake on the initial post)

MSRP $199.95

Join us at The Colorado AR-15 Shooters Site: www.co-ar15.com
And Visit Colorado Shooting: www.coloradoshooting.org

Forest

You go first, I'll cover you!

Joined Nov 2000
Posts 16146
EE 100% (30)

MD, USA

Posted: 10/13/2005 2:08:37 PM EDT

[Last Edit: Forest] [#32]

Originally Posted By Lancelot:
The new MI rifle length forearm is out.

Specs are:

Model: MCTAR-19
Materials: 6061-T6 aluminum construction
Weight: 20.0 ounces
Finish: Hard coat anodized

Features:
MIL-STD 1913 rails
No gunsmith installation
Laser engraved T-marks
MI Off Set Rail compatible
Grenade launcher or shotgun compatible with lower section removed

MSRP $199.95

I like everything about it EXCEPT the weight. It weighs more than the YHM and the KAC M5

.

It's installed weight is even more than my MFR-R!

Shoot Straight
and visit www.MD-AR15.com

Lancelot Team Member Joined Jan 2001 Posts 4334 EE 100% (9) CO, USA	Posted: 10/13/2005 2:37:08 PM EDT [#33] Does anyone have the weight on the YHM two piece rifle length, non free float?
	Join us at The Colorado AR-15 Shooters Site: www.co-ar15.com And Visit Colorado Shooting: www.coloradoshooting.org

Forest

You go first, I'll cover you!

Joined Nov 2000
Posts 16147
EE 100% (30)

MD, USA

Posted: 10/13/2005 2:45:40 PM EDT

[Last Edit: Forest] [#34]

Originally Posted By Lancelot:
Does anyone have the weight on the YHM two piece rifle length, non free float?

Of course!


Rifle Handguards (non Free-Floating)		
A2 Style, shielded, pair, plastic (9 oz)                               0.71875	11.5
Fobus M44, Railed(4), plastic (w/o covers) (11.8 oz)                   0.89375	14.3
Yankee Hill Machine, Railed(4)/2 piece, aluminum (16 oz)	       1.15625	18.5
Midwest Industries, Railed(4)/2 piece, aluminum (20 oz)	               1.40625	22.5
Brugger & Thomet Quad Rails, Railed(4)/2 piece, aluminum (18.07 oz)    1.296875	20.8
KAC RAS M5, railed(4)/2 piece, aluminum (14.1)	                       1.0375	16.6

Weight in parenthesis is the weight of unit, the next column is the installed weight in pounds, the last column is the installed weight in ounces.

Shoot Straight
and visit www.MD-AR15.com

Lancelot Team Member Joined Jan 2001 Posts 4336 EE 100% (9) CO, USA	Posted: 10/13/2005 3:24:10 PM EDT [#35] What I should have said was, Forest do you know...... Coming soon, www.forestknows.com
	Join us at The Colorado AR-15 Shooters Site: www.co-ar15.com And Visit Colorado Shooting: www.coloradoshooting.org

Forest

You go first, I'll cover you!

Joined Nov 2000
Posts 16151
EE 100% (30)

MD, USA

Posted: 10/13/2005 3:33:49 PM EDT

[#36]

Originally Posted By Lancelot:
Coming soon,

www.forestknows.com

Actually it's all posted in a spreadsheet at www.MD-AR15.com...

Shoot Straight
and visit www.MD-AR15.com

Lancelot

Team Member

Joined Jan 2001
Posts 4338
EE 100% (9)

CO, USA

Posted: 10/14/2005 12:05:59 AM EDT

[#37]

Originally Posted By Forest:
Originally Posted By Lancelot:
Coming soon,

www.forestknows.com

Actually it's all posted in a spreadsheet at www.MD-AR15.com...

well of course it is...shoulda known

Join us at The Colorado AR-15 Shooters Site: www.co-ar15.com
And Visit Colorado Shooting: www.coloradoshooting.org

TMReich Joined Jan 2003 Posts 8 EE 0% (0) USA	Posted: 10/30/2005 5:58:27 PM EDT [#38] Can anyone tell me if the different manufacturers use the same points to measure their rails? Will a KAC full length FF RAS(12.0) come to the point on my rifle that a LaRue 12.0 will? Thanks in advance Todd

metroplex Secret Squirrel Joined Aug 2004 Posts 4353 EE 100% (5) MI, USA	Posted: 11/5/2005 10:47:41 AM EDT [Last Edit: metroplex] [#39] Stock Rifle A2 handguards: 0.51 lb (plastic with alum heat shields) YHM Rifle Customizable tube (optional rails, free float): 0.92 lb, aluminum tube

quijanos Click Here Joined May 2002 Posts 4638 EE 100% (92) TX, USA	Posted: 1/3/2006 11:44:46 AM EDT [#40] tag
	Be who you are say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. ~ Dr. Seuss ~

StylesBitchley Joined Nov 2001 Posts 53 EE 100% (3) SC, USA	Posted: 1/10/2006 3:07:47 AM EDT [#41] Looking for info on the Midwest Industries free float handguard, I know you have to remove the delta ring to install, but if anybody has more info about installing them, how they lock up, or general impressions i'd appreciate it.

Edbert Joined Jan 2006 Posts 21 EE 0% (0) TX, USA	Posted: 1/28/2006 10:53:54 AM EDT [#42] DPMS FF-4R was discussed on first page then dropped. http://www.midwayusa.com/mediasvr.dll/highresimage?saleitemid=542759 Specs for the carbine version: Length: 7.3 in. Width: 3.0 in. Height: 3.0 in. Weight: 0.9 lbs. Cost: $140 Only had to remove the FSB, but was replacing a tubular FF-HG.

BushmasterGuy77 Joined Jan 2005 Posts 110 EE 100% (162) MO, USA	Posted: 1/28/2006 11:01:08 AM EDT [Last Edit: BushmasterGuy77] [#43] We now need VLTOR's CASV-EL added to the List. Nathan

Live_Strong Joined Aug 2004 Posts 8 EE 100% (1)	Posted: 1/30/2006 9:49:34 PM EDT [#44] How does the Samson Mfg compare to Larue?

Onslaught

Yes Rico... Ka-BOOM!

Joined Apr 2001
Posts 1432
EE 100% (142)

GA, USA

Posted: 2/1/2006 10:59:12 AM EDT

[Last Edit: Onslaught] [#45]

Originally Posted By Edbert:
DPMS FF-4R was discussed on first page then dropped.
www.midwayusa.com/mediasvr.dll/highresimage?saleitemid=542759

Specs for the carbine version:
Length: 7.3 in.
Width: 3.0 in.
Height: 3.0 in.
Weight: 0.9 lbs.
Cost: $140

Only had to remove the FSB, but was replacing a tubular FF-HG.

that's probably because they're made by Yankee Hill and identical in every way, except price.

(YHM is cheaper)

childofjuly

Joined Mar 2005
Posts 2
EE 0% (0)

AR, USA

Posted: 2/23/2006 4:15:39 AM EDT

[#46]

hello everyone first i want to thank everyone here with all the great information about the ARs and with that in mind i was wondering if anyone can help me out with a question that i have?!..so here it goes.. i own a bushmaster Carbon 15 M4 and while trying to shop for a FF forearm/handguard i was told by many poeple that A.R.M.S. nor anyother company made such thing for my C15M4! now is that true?! is the c15m4 worthy of having? or should i sale/trade it in for a none Carbon M4? please help!!

Ridge

Joined May 2001
Posts 2187
EE 100% (4)

MT, USA

Posted: 2/23/2006 11:41:03 AM EDT

[#47]

Originally Posted By Forest:
Originally Posted By Lancelot:
Coming soon,

www.forestknows.com

Actually it's all posted in a spreadsheet at www.MD-AR15.com...

Ya, But Forest didn't YOU compile that speadsheet? (it's my AR15 weight bible, BTW)

Ridge

Joined May 2001
Posts 2188
EE 100% (4)

MT, USA

Posted: 2/23/2006 11:54:11 AM EDT

[#48]

Originally Posted By childofjuly:
hello everyone first i want to thank everyone here with all the great information about the ARs and with that in mind i was wondering if anyone can help me out with a question that i have?!..so here it goes.. i own a bushmaster Carbon 15 M4 and while trying to shop for a FF forearm/handguard i was told by many poeple that A.R.M.S. nor anyother company made such thing for my C15M4! now is that true?! is the c15m4 worthy of having? or should i sale/trade it in for a none Carbon M4? please help!!

Does yours have a raised rail on the upper receiver? That would explain why ARMs would not work.

As far as anything else, I think it would be fine. My carbon M4 has standard handgaurds and I'm sure I could replace them with anything I wanted to (mine has a perm attached flashhider so most lightweight FF tubes are out of the running without a lot of work, and I don't want to add a lot of weight with the other HGs, so I'm just sticking to the original).

If you really wanted to put a railed handguard on yours I don't think you are going to run into any real carbon specific problems. The only ones that I am aware of are the raised rail (no ARMs SIRs) and that you have to be more careful with the threads on the upper when installing the barrel and nut.

Personally I would keep the Carbon 15. I love most everything about mine. My only gripe would be the upper receiver, and don't really care for the raised rail and sometimes you need to extend the feed ramps for reliable feeding of all ammo types. If I ever get fed up with my carbon upper or it starts having problems I'm just going to replace it with an aluminum flattop upper.

childofjuly Joined Mar 2005 Posts 3 EE 0% (0) AR, USA	Posted: 2/23/2006 11:26:44 PM EDT [#49] thanks for the information man!!!

Danner130 Joined Jan 2005 Posts 245 EE 96% (23) TX, USA	Posted: 3/9/2006 11:17:34 PM EDT [#50] Bushmaster standard carbine plastic fore-stock weight 4.8 oz., not including the barrel nut and delta ring.

FAQ: The Big Thread On FF & Railed Forends (Page 4 of 8)

AR-15 » Rifles, Uppers, Lowers, Barrels, and more

AR Sponsor:

Warning

Confirm Action

About AR15.COM

Stay Connected

Newsletter

Contact Us