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Posted: 9/3/2003 9:38:49 PM EDT
| Anyone got some pictures of a carbine with the Sully stock from Defensive Edge? |
| I don't think I'd use anything from ANY manufacturer that claims that Militec-1 is the best thing they've seen to stop corrosion. That's a discusting blatant lie that tells me the company doesn't care about their products and won't hesitate to lie to sell something. |
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If you would like some credible opinions check at www.tacticalforums.com as well as www.thehighrod.org . You will see an article coming out in a SWAT magazine as well. DPMS sells our stock, as well as www.lightfighter.com , www.stubbygear.com , and www.aptacademy.com , and www.midwesttactical.com . You will also find reviews at lightfighters message board. You can also see another review at: http://www.creatingorder.com/malefi/August,%202003.pdf DPMS has built a rifle with our stock and I have heard it has been submitted to Guns and Weapons magazine for review. We are in the process of setting up a section on our website for people to post pictures of their rifles with our stock system. Sully Chief Instructor www.thedefensiveedge.com |
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wyv3rn I have never used Miltech or even investigated it. Thanks for your opinion! I will check around about it as I do think a company should be consistant and truthfull on their descriptions of the products they sell. Sully Thanks for all the links and info...was a big help! Do you think the Miltech comment by wyv3rn was incorrect? Not to start anything by any means, just would like to hear your opinion of the product and what makes it such a good formula as described. |
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Militec-1 can't touch CLP when it comes to stopping corrosion. About 6 months ago, when my yearly CLP supply was running low, a friend duped me into buying Militec-1 for use on some of my auto-openers... Let's just say that a pair of $400 Microtechs became daily carry knives, as they got corroded pretty bad. I have no idea on Militec-1's applications with firearms, but I cannot say that when it comes to corrosion prevention on knives... It sucks. -Cap'n |
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My opinions on lubrication and lubricants comes from what I have discovered and experienced first hand. In 1997 I acquired numerous Benelli Entry guns for our patrol division. I was using Breakfree CLP and LP. The first winter in Minnesota I was giving the Benelli's a wipedown with CLP every 4 weeks. I noticed a light film of rust was forming on the exterior surface of the barrels and sights. These guns had not been exposed to the outside elements, only to the hot and cold of a police car in the Minnesota Winter. So after experiencing this I went in search of a better corrosion protector. I bought anything I could get my hands on and started experimenting. I found that the Militec-1 gave me better results than anything else I could get. The trick I have found with Militec is to make sure you get it bonded under heat, and the more it is used the better it gets. It bonds under heat, so much that my gunsmith has trouble rebluing a weapon once it has Militec bonded to it. I went as long as 6 months on two Benelli's over the winter without having to rewipe them down and no corrosion was found, but these guns have been treated several times and used on the range where the Militec would be bonded very well. I started using this in the AR15/M16 Armoring and Instructor courses that we have run with DPMS rifles that last several years. What I found in each class that we exclusively used the Militec was great results. One course that comes to mind is several years ago we did an instructor and armorer course just south of Nashville TN. We had 9 new DPMS M4's in the course. These weapons were brand new right out of the box, and we disassembled them over two days in class. These were Militec'd and then put back together. The last three days of the course were spent on the range in 45 degree weather, of which it poured down rain the entire time. Students shot from every position we teach, including lots of prone in the mud and 4"-5" of water on the ground. All attendees that had these new rifles were issued Sellior-Belloit ammo by their agency. None of these rifles were cleaned during any of the days, and all functioned flawlessly. The only negative I have found with Militec-1 is that it eats butyl rubber on surefire lights. Again I do not manufacture lubricants. I have had great experience with Militec-1, but only after it has been bonded. We started selling it in our tactical store only because people that have attended our courses kept asking where to get it. I have recently started using Slip2000. I like their 725 solvent, and Carbon Cutter. I am still testing their lubricant, and am trying to find any negatives about it but have not found any as of yet. I am open to any lubricant that works and works well. People draw their own opinions of what they like and use, just like some people have preferences like Ford or Chevy. If you searchd the internet you will find many police agencies have had great success with the Militec, Michigan State Police has a very good study that they have done. I hope this helps. Sully Chief Instructor www.thedefensiveedge.com |
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Well fellas, I know some guys that still swear by the old Hoppes #9 for solvent, and I personaly think that stuff is somewhere behind warm piss to clean my guns with. But I would never call them liers. If it works for them and not me, so be it. I guess it just depends on the individual and his or hers results. Thanks again Sully for answering back. |
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Hoppes#9 is a good solvent from personal experience and its like a good cologne, if I could only get my wife to wear it. Hoppes#9 is made from banana oil, and when it is left on a gun and allowed to dry it will turn to a gummy varnish. I have one of our Patrol Officers who carries a HK-USP45, and he cleans his gun liberally with Hoppes#9 every week whether it needs it or not. After two years of this he was at the range one day. He was tasked to draw and fire, he drew and pressed the trigger and the gun went click. He instantly responded with a tap/rack&roll and pressed the trigger again, and again it went click. He again responded with a tap/rack&roll, pressed the trigger again with another click. I took his gun and broke it down to discover a large chunk of gummy varnish on the inside of the slide inside the back of the firing pin hole, which kept the firing pin from going all the way forward. The gummy varnish chunk was removed and the gun lubed and reassembled, and on testing the gun now worked fine. The moral is if you are going to use a banana oil based produce, to make sure you remove all traces of it after the gun is clean. Sully Chief Instructor www.thedefensiveedge.com |
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My department uses MPro7 Lube and Cleaner or Slip2000 and 725 Cleaner. We have had good luck with both. We started using Slip2000 with our initial batch of Bushmasters we bought because we couldn't get Colts. The Bushies had numerous failures to extract, eject and feed. We thought it was a lube issue, so I asked another large agency nearby what they used on their Bushies and Slip2000 was the answer. Long story short, it cured most of the problems; scrapping the Winchester Q3131 ammo cured the rest. We used MPro7 for cleaning and they sent us lube samples, which worked great also. Slip2000 sent us 725 cleaner samples which worked about as well as the MPro7. Now I buy Slip2000 or MPro7 products almost interchangeably. The one thing that WILL get you written up is using Hoppe's #9 on a department firearm, except for our sniper(his school swore by it). I hate Hoppe's because it will gum up. |
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Quoted: Hoppes#9 is a good solvent from personal experience and its like a good cologne, if I could only get my wife to wear it. Hoppes#9 is made from banana oil, and when it is left on a gun and allowed to dry it will turn to a gummy varnish. I have one of our Patrol Officers who carries a HK-USP45, and he cleans his gun liberally with Hoppes#9 every week whether it needs it or not. After two years of this he was at the range one day. He was tasked to draw and fire, he drew and pressed the trigger and the gun went click. He instantly responded with a tap/rack&roll and pressed the trigger again, and again it went click. He again responded with a tap/rack&roll, pressed the trigger again with another click. I took his gun and broke it down to discover a large chunk of gummy varnish on the inside of the slide inside the back of the firing pin hole, which kept the firing pin from going all the way forward. The gummy varnish chunk was removed and the gun lubed and reassembled, and on testing the gun now worked fine. The moral is if you are going to use a banana oil based produce, to make sure you remove all traces of it after the gun is clean. Sully Chief Instructor www.thedefensiveedge.com Curious...you are referring to Hoppes solvent, not the lubricant? A couple questions come to mind: was he wiping the weapon clean and dry after using the solvent? If it wasn't solvent, why in the heck was lubricating oil getting into the firing pin channel (at all?) to the degree it gummed up? (Note that I do not Have a USP, so maybe that is part of the lube procedure) And why wasn't the solvent removing this buildup? *Warning* This thread appears to have been hijacked! |
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It was the solvent that was getting into the firing pin hole and gumming up on the back side. This particular Officer uses a tooth brush and dips it into the Hoppes-9, then scrubbs liberally with a dripping wet weapon. He then wipes it dry and coats with a lube. When asked if he had ever flushed out the firing pin hole after scrubbing with the solvent, the answer was no. A simple lesson learned and this Officer hasn't done it again. Sully Chief Instructor www.thedefensiveedge.com |
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MANY tests have been made of Militec-1. They are online, you can find them. The military did their own. They found it does _nothing_ to stop rust. Militec replied to the military by saying basically "we never said it would stop rust, it's not designed to, today's metals used in firearms are treated to prevent rust, it's just a lubricant". In addition, I've done my OWN tests on BF CLP, Eezoxx, Mil-comm TW25B and Militec-1. I can verify the military's testing.. it does NOTHING to stop corrosion. You can test this yourself. Get a few nails, clean them with 91-100% alcohol (I used 100%). Apply the different lubricants & protectants. Spray them with a salt-water (just mix salt and water) spray. Keep 1 nail unlubed as your "control" nail. Watch Militec-1 rust away just as badly as the control nail. [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=7&t=165475[/url] [url]http://gunzone.sccltd.net/rust.html[/url] All it takes is some searching on ar15.com and google.com. I think Militec-1 might even have the military's testing along with their response to the military that I mentioned buried in their website. Maybe Sully's other products are fine, I don't know, I have tried them. I'm just saying that I don't trust anyone's products who will tell me a bald faced lie just to sell something, sorry. |
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I use Miltec-1 on my Glocks, so the "rust" issue isn't an issue. Glocks simply don't rust. I also use it on my rifles, and have not seen any rust on them either. As far as a "salt spray" test goes, well that doesn't apply to a lot of situations, with the exception of carrying weapons close to the body where they would be exposed to such situations (sweat). I'm no expert on "lubricants", I can only attest to the fact that Miltec has always done well for me. Every CLP application I ever used dried up within hours of application and never seemed to provide the smooth function of other oils. |
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Quoted: wyv3rn, In the attached links I do not see where the Militec-1 was properly bonded. Was it? My experiences with Militec-1 having good results are with it after it was allowed to be bonded. It was properly bonded in my own tests. Anyone who really cares can do their own tests, it's not difficult. This is my last post to this topic, because quite honestly I don't care anymore. I know what works and what doesn't and if you guys want to pretend Militec-1 prevents rusting, go right ahead, I don't care. The only part that bothers me is when people push this crap onto unsuspecting customers and say it does something it doesn't in order to get their money. At this point, my warning has been heard, if you don't believe me, get a free sample of militec and do the tests yourself. Anyone who says Militec-1 is a rust inhibitor is just plain wrong, sorry. |
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