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Posted: 8/18/2003 3:01:43 PM EDT
Here's a topic I have been meaning to ask for a while,and the appearance of $25 Knight's vertical grips in the For Sale section reminded me of it. Is there any difference, and how can you tell which is which (or what is what) between the "airsoft" knights stuff and "real" knight's stuff. The airsoft stuff is a heck of a lot cheaper (see reference to ad above) and is marked identical with the logo and stuff. I have seen "knights" rail covers real cheap as well. Who makes the airsoft stuff, how do they get away marking it knight's if it is not Knight's, how can you make sure what you get sent is one or the other?
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 3:55:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2003 10:32:41 AM EDT by Green0]
[b] To preface [/b] I want to say that few forgeries are going to fool most people here and I do not sell airsoft parts here unless I say so (like back when my attempt to sell a TGS aimpoint totally flopped (I told people what it was and they didn't want it so it is still on my Sten). I use a Airsoft G&P grip on my rifles because it is the same product for less money. (I can tell the difference and it is the 2 dots on the upper rear part of it that are produced during injection molding. Also it is a little greyer than the black and more smooth KAC part. The Plastic they use is the same plastic without the same amount of dye and KAC is charging way too much for the Foregrip in my opinion. The G&P pannels are the only pannels on the market that carry KAC trades and they are rough textured and greyish in color I do not use them because the price difference is small and they look cheap to me. (besides I always have some real KAC pannels lying around.) Marui fakes suck and are always labeled "For Marui AEG" they are not made of glass filled polymer and will melt if used on the real weapons. Marui makes a flip up copy of a 300meter BUIS and it is labeled "For Marui AEG" that being said it is an excellent copy and the only difference being lower quality metal and the screw which is designed to be hand tightened (and is built like a mini- carry handle nut) as opposed to the KAC unit which uses a slotted screw. Again I don't want to have anything to do with a fake made out of (who knows what) mine is real KAC. My brother is on a tighter budget and is thinking about using the Marui. REAL 300M BUIS [img]http://airsoft.3dretreat.com/images/reviews/sr-15/site_rear_kac.jpg[/img] MARUI 300M BUIS [img]http://airsoft.3dretreat.com/images/reviews/sr-15/sight0.jpg[/img] KAC RAS front flip sight [img]http://airsoft.3dretreat.com/images/reviews/sr-15/sight_kac.jpg[/img] GB tech Copy DEAD RINGER FOR THE REAL THING RIGHT DOWN to the screw Marui should have put on their rear sight. [img]http://airsoft.3dretreat.com/images/reviews/sr-15/sight1.jpg[/img] [b]G&G RAS's are the only ones with KAC trades. Classic Army Ras's are probably the highest quality and best copies right down to details such as rear retainers and heat shields. but they do not have Trades as they are made (I think) here in the USA and can't have them.[/b] [b]based on outward appearance the FF Ras copies are near impossible to tell from real units[/b]
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 4:25:36 PM EDT
How well do you think the lamp assemblies would hold up on the airsoft m500's?
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 4:44:48 PM EDT
The plastic in Airsoft isn't anything like the heat resistant material in the KAC pannels. Compairing (anything) from airsoft guns to real weapon harware is like compairing a rubber blow up doll to a real woman, any woman. I guess some just don't care as long as they their eye's closed, and gloves are on. Jack
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 4:54:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 3rdtk: The plastic in Airsoft isn't anything like the heat resistant material in the KAC pannels. Compairing (anything) from airsoft guns to real weapon harware is like compairing a rubber blow up doll to a real woman, any woman. I guess some just don't care as long as they their eye's closed, and gloves are on. Jack
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Ditto I have a buddy who bought a MP-5 RAS for his - and well yeah, deals to good to be true are usually not true.
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 5:18:50 PM EDT
Test data comparison of Rubber test doll compared to genuine wopman, courtesy of various antagonists of third tk's. LOL Jack
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 8:47:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2003 6:38:42 AM EDT by Green0]
"How well do you think the lamp assemblies would hold up on the airsoft m500's?" I don't know I had a G&P 6P light (similar to surefire classic weaponlights) mounted in a weaver ring on my M-16 it held out fine but I am thinking about getting a surefire M-series just because it looks better on a gun that allready costs BIG money. (why put a $40 flashlight on a $1200 upper?) I have seen a lot of pictures of the M-500 light and I'm sure it would hold up fine to moderate use (the lamps are good to go they are shock dampened with springs like Surefire lamps [my G&P actually uses a surefire lamp assembly] (like 200 rds in 3-5 minutes but after that I can't tell wether or not it will melt because I haven't actually held the plastic to determine which type it is. (most end-users of M500's are law enforcement types who will fire 30 rds at most in succession and don't get their barrels red hot. I would like ot see what would happen to it if the barrel was fired till red hot before I could say for sure. (But after 240rds I move my hand to the lower or the magazine anyway as std guards are too hot to touch comfortably anyway.) I did a search and found a recently released G&P light which could be far better quality than existing units but again I haven't had hands on either. [img]http://www.dentrinity.com/shop/tg/m500.jpg[/img] [url]http://www.dentrinity.com/shop/release.htm[/url] [b]As for G&P plastic[/b] I have compared it to KAC plastic and I have trimmed both and they both melt and cut exactly the same with a dremel tool and are impervious to solvents so I can honestly say that the G&P plastic pannels and grip are every bit as good as KAC pannels (which by the way cost so little that if KAC makes a batch that are not dyed perfectly right they just right it off and re-mold them.) which is just my way of saying that these pannels cost no where near the $20 a pannel KAC charges to make. Just like G&P making a whole light and buying a Surefire lamp to put in it for less than $50 when Surefire lights often cost much more. [b]If you buy a Classic Army RAS you are getting a product equal to KAC in quality (they are sized to spec not like the Marui unit which is not. (but why pay $200 for the nockoff when a used KAC unit goes for nearly that on the boards here?) [/b] The G&G FF RAS's are built exactly the same as KAC models with welds, allignment pins, gas tube holes in the barrel nut, etc. Like I said the Ferrous (IE Magnetic- blued) metal (I'm guessing it is a Steel MIM part) actually threads all the way onto an Ar-15 upper reciever. It is a barrel nut designed to hold an Airsoft steel outer barrel on an Airsoft M-16 and will work with real Ar-15 barrel extentions. The only thing I noticed on my brothers was that the finish wore off where the pannel locking springs slid across the ras in about 3-5 installs leaving 2 lines without finish. I haven't noticed that with KAC products and that leads me to believe that the finish is not a hardcoat anodized finish. [b]If they made blow up women this real I would break my rules and go to a porn store and buy one.[/b]
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 10:08:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2003 3:27:26 PM EDT by Green0]
[url]http://www.boomarms.com/crane_preorder/[/url] [img]http://www.boomarms.com/crane_preorder/IMG/2.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.boomarms.com/crane_preorder/IMG/n1.jpg[/img] [b]NOTICE LIKE I SAID THE SILVER LINES FROM WEAR CAUSED BY SLIDING PANNELS ON AND OFF[/b] [img]http://www.boomarms.com/crane_preorder/IMG/n9.jpg[/img] This is a link to a few pics of an airsoft gun (note copy Crane stock, Copy 4power ACOG, Copy Aimpoint in the cantilever mount I was talking about (I think it's the same one I can't tell if it has 3 screws to a side or 2), Marui flip site (notice finger tightenable knob), G&G FF RAS with KAC Laser etched trademarks, Copy KAC low profile gasblock, Copy Aimpoint, G&G foregrip, even a fake asthetic gas tube. [b]oddly that appears to be a real KAC Compensator (a device for people who want to screw with retaining rings and latches but don't want to or can't get a sound suppressor.) must be a custom mod cuz those outer barrels don't come in 16in length and do come with commie metric threads : )[/b] This is an example of gay airsofter mods (aimpoint mounted in front of ACOG???) Fucked up trigger guard? Pannels where he can't put his hands? 3V batt tubes in stock when they could have made a real CRANE Copy and gotten a lot of money here. Airsofters mostly don't even know what CRANE is let alone the stock's significance [b]I did think of a way to tell a copy FF RAS (the holes DESIGNED FOR???) that are found in the middle of the picatinny rails are not threaded on Airsoft copies [I guess they realized how no-one really uses them anyway] [/b] [b]By the way I hear that ACOG has a real 100-600M retical and ajustments and costs $135 (I was tempted to try one but I didn't want to risk a total waste of $135 when the retical fell out or something stupid like that happened. I got a deal on a used NSN ACOG for $550 (it's a little beat up and optic coatings scratched but I can't afford the new one for $800+) [/b] EDITED I meant ACOG
Link Posted: 8/19/2003 12:24:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2003 12:26:49 PM EDT by Fenian]
[b]If they made blow up women this real I would break my rules and go to a porn store and buy one.[/b]
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Well, you're in trouble now, mo boichall! Go here, and get that credit card out lol. [url]http://www.realdoll.com/[/url]
Link Posted: 8/19/2003 1:08:50 PM EDT
Airsoft is a plague.
Link Posted: 8/19/2003 1:28:13 PM EDT
All my guns are airsoft, I don't own any real guns. President of Airsoft Owners Association.
Link Posted: 8/19/2003 1:31:02 PM EDT
Chicken
Link Posted: 8/19/2003 2:00:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Green0: ...I got a deal on a used Aimpoint for $550 (it's a little beat up and optic coatings scratched but I can't afford the new one for $800+) [/b]
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I must have ripped off Donnie @ SableCo, getting my M2 for $390.00 retail. Who can sell an Aimpoint @ $800.00??? Must be the [url=http://hal9000.shacknet.nu/hypnotoad/]Hypnotoad[/url].
Link Posted: 8/19/2003 3:26:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2003 7:30:51 PM EDT by Green0]
woops it was like 1:30 AM when I wrote that.. I meant ACOG NSN (I bought my used ACOG for $550 bowflaged and a little beat). The aimpoint lense coatings being scratched proably wouldn't be all that noticeable. I really dislike aimpoints the fuzzy dot distracts me and the tube gives me some tunnel vision. The airsoft version (though supposedly not waterproof) uses a 10MOA dot that is very clear and I actually shoot better with Airsoft 10MOA aimpoints than with 4MOA M2 CET aimpoints. But the battery life is like 140 hours on the airsoft site making the obvious choice for me the EO tech 552 REV E (with clearer reticle and 440hour life) in the close range game. "Well, you're in trouble now, mo boichall! Go here, and get that credit card out lol. www.realdoll.com/" If they sell one that isn't dressed like a whore and that can walk and talk and convince my relatives you might have a sale : ) . "Airsoft is a plague." I can see where you could get that idea I get sick of searching for parts and coming up with useless piles of airsoft hits (it's obvious the Chinese and Japanese designers of airsoft guns like to put up webpages (a lot more webpages than people like KAC who still really don't have more than a token page.) [b]Simunitions is a plague... For less leathal CQB training Airsoft works great -- I played one game with my brother and the WI Airsoft Association and I was impressed-- the BB's fly flat to about 75yds do to ajustable backspin, std mags give you semi-realistic mag capacity (like 60rds), at 400fps a .2 gram BB hurts enough you don't really want to get hit- but it won't take your eye out through a pair of goggles like simunitions or leave scars. The Guns are accurate to about 6 inches at 50yds. If you are one of those sadist types you can upgrade your gun to shoot 9mm bb's at like 550FPS which will extend range to about 180yds, lower capacity to about 35rds and leave simunition like scars and wounds. Am I buying airsoft guns..... No I'm not rich enough to finance a Gun habit and an airsoft habit but I wish I had money for both. It's a hell of a lot better than playing Army with Miles gear without sighting in the lasers. Every time we have an AAR I suggest zeroing Miles Gear for better confidence and training value but nobody listens to a "stupid PFC" [/b]
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 4:34:40 AM EDT
Just chiming in here as the Vice President of the Airsoft Owners Association. [devil]
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 7:11:06 AM EDT
In defense of airsoft replicas, I offer this. Ever have someone (A friend, or co worker) see one of your weapons, and ask "to go out the next time you go shooting"? Take a simple airsoft pistol. Even one of the cheap ones. Instruct the first timer using the airsoft, instead of a live handgun. If they are insulted, or careless (because it's just a toy) do you really want em handling a live firearm? Did'nt think so. Meplat-
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 7:34:24 AM EDT
My only feelings on the subject are that I've seen myself spend $4000 on a custom AR and then I watched my brother take a OLy ARMS Firsh and modify it for pannels and tighten it up with JB weld using G&P pannels and grip and a G&P 6v light, make a product on par with a FF RAS for $175 total cost equipped with accessories. Then he went to the EE put up a WTB ad and bought a ARMS Swan Sleeve and aimpoint railgrabber mount for about $140 and an upper for $400 and then when he got it and put a TGS aimpoint on it it looked like a DOE contract upper only better, and came fully rigged for about $1140 For a lot of people who can't afford stuff but could use a RAS to mount a light and grip on it's a good thing to look into. As far as airsoft I don't care, all I know is I played paintball enough to tell that it totally sucks, and then I tried Airsoft and had a blast and found that it was everything paintball is not.
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 1:10:12 PM EDT
How come my airsoft gun shoots 5.56mm 55gr and 62gr BBs? Do I have some special collector's edition or something? [}:D]
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 2:03:02 PM EDT
Whatever you macho men said. My next airsoft purchase, yes another one, will be a FN M249 SAW Para version from TOP.
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 10:13:45 PM EDT
I am confused!!! Are we actually saying that airsoft gear is the equivalent of the real deal? I just can't believe that an airsoft Aimpoint copy is of the same quality as my REAL Aimpoint. [>:/]
Link Posted: 8/21/2003 9:36:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2003 9:58:44 AM EDT by Green0]
NO The airsoft copy gets the job done for $80 (what you can have mine for if you want it) it has a clearer dot than real aimpoints (I think this is aimpoints problem for shitty engineering). Airsoft: 1 Not waterproof (unless you swim I doubt you'll see a difference) 2 128-150hour battery life (same battery as aimpoints) 3 It is fully ajustable with ajustments that look and operate just like the originals and are made of brass like the real product. Real sight. 1 Waterproof even if you want to swim 2 longer battery life than any of us care to stay around to find out about. 3 guaranteed to work with real weapons (I've only used the cheaper sight on 9mm stens and ar's that don't really have a lot of recoil). 4 NV compatible in the M2 5 the intensity ajustment is smoother and easier to operate (as it is not rubber gasketed on the outside to keep out water [the aimpoint design must be internal and here the engineers did an excellent job.] I was happier with the $145 I spent on the TGS aimpoint with Guarder cantiliever than the $420 with ARMS mount I spent on the real one. [b]Are we actually saying that airsoft gear is the equivalent of the real deal? [/b] In the case of my brothers aimpoint mount and the G&G foregrips pannels and G&G/AS FF RAS's and maybe that GB tech RAS mount front flip sight I would say so or at least it is close enough at 1/3 the price that it is worth a look. Also G&G flashlights (I recently looked into a new Surefire 961 C (the 6v ARMS mount FL with on/off tailcap) to replace my $45 G&P 6v with Weaver ring and on/off tailcap and I found out that replacing my flashlight with an equal surefire product would cost me $270+ $35 for the optional on/off tailcap rather than the momentary on tailcap. Needless to say it will be a while before I touch a Surefire product again. My next surefire will be the P101 handgun light for $175. [b]Most other places the gear is lower in quality and will not work with real weapons I was lucky enough to see several thousand dollars worth of airsoft parts move through my house to see what looks like it is worth a crap and what doesn't.[/b] Whenever I get my TRP operator build finished I plan to buy (my first airsoft gun purchase a $200 Western Arms airsoft copy..... (it is called Western Arms S.C.W. Striker 45 ( Shibuya Limited )take a look at [url]www.wargameclub.com[/url] click on the only english word at the top left after the site loads and it will take you to the english part of the site and then go to handguns and western arms -it is in the lower 20% of the page- sorry the site doesn't allow linking people to pages other than the home page) .... of the TRP operator so I can use it for draw and fire practice in my backyard and prevent all kinds of holster wear to the $2500 1911 it will stand in for in thousands of draws. Besides most ranges won't let you get away with drawing and firing from a holster so fuck them I won't go to a range to draw and fire (I'll walk out my back door and do it.) I'll do the PC target shooting at the range. Looks like this with a mag well [img]http://www.airsoftshop.com/handgunphoto/wlk(s.jpg[/img] Western Arms makes a ton of 1911/2011 copies.
Link Posted: 8/21/2003 10:04:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2003 10:10:45 AM EDT by Green0]
It sounded like you were trying to hint toward playing an airsoft game with a live weapon. If this was not your implication I retract my statement. If the mods want to delete the post they can go right ahead (it may have gotten a little out of hand) but people needed to know how to tell airsoft parts from real parts in light or recent ebay appearances of marui flip sights and RAS accessories on the EE (someone will always be trying to rip people off and get rich quick. Oh by the way go to the realdoll site and try to read just the testemonials without laughing your ass off.
Link Posted: 8/21/2003 10:24:27 AM EDT
Cool. No Prob. Thank You for the retraction. Very adult of you. And no I don't play airsoft. Paintball sometimes. And no-one is going to delete anything on you. You are right, that people new to this hobbie/addiction, have got to be educated buyers. Too many rip-off artists out there. Peace.
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 6:44:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2003 7:48:54 PM EDT by Ekie]
Well, this Airsoft suff is a big a pain as those puter games when doing Google searches, I always have to use the advance search to leave out the game and Airsoft stuff. After reading this thread I did a Google search on Airsoft, now that is a change of pace. Had no idea Airsoft stuff was so expensive, not much cheaper then the real deal. Here is what I found using GreenO's guidance: This Classic Army set up is $165.00: [IMG]http://www.uncompany.com/images/ca-m4ras_big.jpg[/IMG] But this Classic Army set is only $120, what is up with that?: [IMG]http://www.uncompany.com/images/ca-m4ras-set_big.jpg[/IMG] This Classic Army RAS M5 copy is $238: [IMG]http://www.uncompany.com/images/ca-m5ras_big.jpg[/IMG] This G&G RAS M5 copy is $320, might stiff price huh? Their web site says it is made of 6061 and is hard coat anodized: [IMG]http://www.uncompany.com/images/g&g-m5ras_big.jpg[/IMG] G&G FF KAC copy, this thing is $300: [IMG]http://www.airsoftretreat.com/images/reviews/sr-15/ras_gg.jpg[/IMG] Check out the barrel nut set up on the G&G FF set up, don't look nuten like my ArmaLite set up, don't see how this set up could work on an AR-15: [IMG]http://www.airsoftretreat.com/images/reviews/sr-15/dissaemble_gg.jpg[/IMG] This G&P mount is only $33: [IMG]http://airsoftshop.polyactive.net/scope/gplmount.jpg[/IMG] This ICS SIR copy is only $178, who knows if it fits an M4gery: [IMG]http://www.uncompany.com/images/ics-ma-12_big.jpg[/IMG] This is the TGS Aimpoint copy, says it is a MK3, third generation? about $113: [IMG]http://www.uncompany.com/images/tgs-aimpoint-mk3_big.jpg[/IMG] For $145 this looks to be a purdy scary buy: [IMG]http://www.uncompany.com/images/ta01copy_big.jpg[/IMG] Any way, thanks for the info GreenO, I had no idea that this Airsoft stuff could be so close, good thing to keep any eye out for while buying stuff, a guy could get slipped a fake Airsoft thingy if he did not know better.
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 7:28:18 PM EDT
The difference between the two classic army ones is that one is casted and powdercoated and the other one is CNC'd and hard coat anodized, which is why their is an increase in price.
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 8:29:12 PM EDT
Ah, that makes sense, thanks. Got to looking at that barrel nut again, guess it would work, being that the internal threads are the same? And if it has holes for the gas tube. The guard just threads onto the nut different then the KAC/ArmaLite set up. Hmm, once you had the nut tigtened up on the receiver, how would you time the handguard?
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 10:12:50 PM EDT
The threads on the nuts that come with the RAS's are metric threaded and as such will not thread on any reciever i know of. You can, however, use a real barrel nut from what i have seen.
Link Posted: 8/24/2003 5:44:00 PM EDT
I just found a pic of an airsoft M500 and the pressure pad looks a bit "cheaper" than the original from Surefire.The top pic is airsoft and the bottom is Surefire. [img]http://ebay0.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_4dd2933906f6deb03eb7e746acd7e47d/i-1.JPG[/img] [img]http://ebay0.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_4dd2933906f6deb03eb7e746acd7e47d/i-2.JPG[/img]
Link Posted: 8/24/2003 6:42:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2003 8:19:22 AM EDT by Green0]
It's no wonder that the surefire product can be copied for 1/4 the price. Surefire is terribly overpriced. (I'll bet they sell to the military for 30% what we pay) and then Surefire figures that we will pay a lot to have what the military uses and raises prices through the roof. I don't buy in (I might buy a surefire p101 rail mount handgun light but that is not overpriced at $175). The 961C (6V RAS mount) is at $315. [b]Lookout G&G I guess sold there realistic FF RAS line to a company called AS [/b] So if you go to [url]wargameclub.com[/url] and go to RAS/accessories and buy a AS FF RAS you will have a product that will fit a real AR. they are the ones that are shown dissassembled and look like the real KAC product with allignment pins etc. [b]I recently bought a product model number AS RAS 300 that would fit a real AR. my brother bought the shorter AS RAS Important Note: This was threaded on to a standard Upper reciever without any mods done to the upper or RAS parts. IE: the barrel nut was threaded properly as it came. (not metric)[/b]
Link Posted: 8/24/2003 7:10:20 PM EDT
Now I'm just REALLY confused....
Link Posted: 8/24/2003 9:33:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2003 9:36:32 PM EDT by Green0]
I had forgotten about the name switch. The AS brand name (as of 3 weeks ago and today is correct.) I am not sure about anything else (those new G&G's are nasty looking and will probably not fit the real rifle). as I said it is sold on wargameclub.com as AS-RAS-300 (the 300 denoting length in milimeters 150 is carbine length ( I think and there is a midlength too). It looks like after MSTN runs out of the REAL KAC midlength these will be the only source of midlength FF RAS. KAC dropped the midlength. [b]Next time you post that you are confused please clarify as to what is the source of the confusion please and maybe I will be able to straighten you out. [/b] I know a guy who periodically orders from WGC and will give you the product you order with USA style shipping in 2-4weeks his e-mail if you are interested is westonpritts@hotmail.com
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 4:12:18 PM EDT
I have not been able to find any AS stuff. That wargame website is down, and you can't do a Google search on AS.
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 4:30:38 PM EDT
Did find another SIR. I would think these fake SIRs would fit an AR being that they mount on the receiver top rail, but who knows what the quality is. [IMG]http://www.combatclub.net/images/news/20030823015147.jpg[/IMG]
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 5:40:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ekie: Did find another SIR. I would think these fake SIRs would fit an AR being that they mount on the receiver top rail, but who knows what the quality is. [IMG]http://www.combatclub.net/images/news/20030823015147.jpg[/IMG]
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Wow, It looks like it's made better then the ARMS SIR. I wonder what Dick, I mean Jack (3rdtk) thinks of it. He should take lessons from the Japanese to build a superior product. ls
Link Posted: 8/26/2003 8:15:30 AM EDT
The Chinese and Japanese are reverse-engineering everything on the market. Like those BDC ar-15 carry handle scopes and M14 scope mounts. The other SIR copy looked better to me. (they started in WWII when they reverse engineered Howard Hughes racer from extensive photographic spy work and made the Jap Zero.) [b] It really isn't hard to figure out what will and won't work. By the way there is now an all aluminum ACOG that is a even better copy (all it does not have is the trademark logosand NSN# on the side.[/b]
Link Posted: 8/26/2003 10:11:17 AM EDT
The airsoft "ACOG" scopes suck and will NOT zero no matter how hard you try. They are good for appearance/show only. I'll agree on the TGS "Aimpoint"... I have one and it's of VERY good quality.
Link Posted: 8/26/2003 7:35:45 PM EDT
Anyone compare the KAC cantilever Aimpoint mount with a copy to see what the differences are? I got a KAC off the net (at least here in the states and not overseas) and would like to know that I got the real thing and not a copy. You guys are making me nervous about this.
Link Posted: 8/27/2003 8:16:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/27/2003 8:17:06 AM EDT by Green0]
I have the cantilever mount and it is NOT marked (no logos) so if your has KAC logos you got the real thing. Either way it is a good product- my brother is running the Airsoft version and I am impressed with the quality of production that went into it. All aluminum with a thick steel screw and steel hex nut.
Link Posted: 8/27/2003 8:32:53 AM EDT
Sent an email to a guy named DumboRat on Airsoftohio's forums about his impressions on the G&P M500 unit for use on real Ar's and this is his reply....Hope it help everyone.... Hi Michael, At 01:57 PM 8/22/03 -0500, you wrote: Sir,, Please, please, call me Allen -- that's what my friends call me. =) I'm neither old enough nor of enough "social status" to be called "sir." =) Someone sent me your way for information about the G&P M500 forearm..... No problem -- I'll try to help as best I can. First let me say that i will be using this light on a real 9mm Ar15.... Now that's going to be a BIG problem. Without delaying further, let me say right now that I do NOT recommend that you cross-fit the G&P replica SureFire M500 forearm for real-steel shooting purposes. I'll get to the specifics of why in just a second, but right now, let me again emphasize that I in no way recommend that you go ahead with this! Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but trust me, I've got my reasons. Please read on. And ofcourse im too tight to buy a Surefire unit...LOL... The price is hard to swallow. =) Have you used this light on a real or airsoft rifle? Airsoft only. And even though I do not own any real-steel, I can supply more than just one reason why you'll not - I say again, NOT - want to fit the G&P to your AR. What is your opinion on the quality fit and finish compared to the real thing?... Unfortuantely, I have not seen the real-deal M500 unit. However, of those who have -- and luckily, are players and enthusiasts I trust instinctively and totally -- they all report that the G&P is nothing like the real-deal. Again, more later. I am told that G&P uses surefire lamp assys. Is this true?.. With most of the G&P handheld units and even their airsoft-MP5-use forends, yes, this is true -- however, with the M500 replica, this is sadly NOT the case. The G&P in this case uses its own proprietary lamp unit, which I would seriously doubt is recoil shock-proof. Even SureFire themselves use "special" shock-isolated lamp units in their specific true "weaponlights" or "Special Operations tactical flashlights" (which are cross-fit enabled to the weaponlights as their internals are shock-proofed). Essentially, the G&P presents a double-bogey in that it (1) is not using a true SureFire lamp unit and that (2) it is furthermore not "shock isolated" as per SureFire's recommendations for a true weaponlight. This is thus the first (and most important) reason why I would not recommend the G&P for your cross-fit application -- but there's more. Are there any mods that need to be made to fit this on a real Rockriver AR15? Unfortunately, the G&P's dimensions are a bit off of TM's. As such, on the TM M4/SR-16/etc. replicas (short forearm), one actually has to slightly displace the front sight assembly just ever so much forward (towards the muzzle) in order to get the G&P M500 to fit properly. With my M993-type replica, instead of trying to stake down the front sight unit again, I chose to go with a S3 (an airsoft accessory make) modular front sight mount unit to circumvent this entire problem. With your real-steel, the first thing that comes to mind is how this might affect the overall gas-operating system on your AR. Not only in that the grip may (as in this case, it could be that G&P may have manufactured their clone to exacting real-steel dimensions, but that TM did not with their replica -- but this is in and of itself something that we again unfortunatley cannot count on to favor us in terms of your cross-fit application) or may not be of proper "length" dimension, but it is questionable whether if the replica will clear, at all, the gas tube. This is the second reason why I do not recommend that you pursue this cross-fit. However, there's more...... Any other info you can provide and feel is useful Please feel free.... The third reason why I do not recommend this cross-fit is that the G&P's internal electrical connections are tenuous at best. I would expect that with a combination of the heat and recoil shock generated from firing of the carbine that the epoxy which is used to hold the wiring close to the shell of the replica will melt, thus exposing the tenuously soldered and wired connectors to damage that can cause the switchgear to become non-functional. This is further amplified by a suspicion that as the exposed wiring is of such shoddy quality, the actual switch-gear will also thus not be able to sustain the abuse of recoil from your real-steel. Further compounding the problems is the issue of barrel heat. The G&P replica unit does not incorporate any true heat-shield, and its plastic shell is rather thin. It is my fear that any significant amount of heat -- if not outright melt certain critical portions of the wiring connections -- will cause actual physical warping of the handguard. Thank you for your time.... No thanks needed -- I'm just glad to be able to help out a fellow enthusiast. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I honestly believe that if you were to fit the G&P to your real-steel AR, you would be at best disappointed, and at worst endangering your own safety and that of your loved ones if the weapon is to be used in self-defense. ......................UNDERDOG
Link Posted: 8/27/2003 9:11:17 AM EDT
"Unfortunately, the G&P's dimensions are a bit off of TM's. As such, on the TM M4/SR-16/etc. replicas (short forearm), one actually has to slightly displace the front sight assembly just ever so much forward (towards the muzzle) in order to get the G&P M500 to fit properly. With my M993-type replica, instead of trying to stake down the front sight unit again, I chose to go with a S3 (an airsoft accessory make) modular front sight mount unit to circumvent this entire problem. With your real-steel, the first thing that comes to mind is how this might affect the overall gas-operating system on your AR. Not only in that the grip may (as in this case, it could be that G&P may have manufactured their clone to exacting real-steel dimensions, but that TM did not with their replica " BINGO! Give the man a cigar. Tokyo Marui M4's and Ar's are slightly short in their handgaurd length dimensions. I would think it should be a perfect fit. I did not have firsthand experience to say wether it was TM spec length or Classic Army/Real M4 spec length. As far as heat (you are still screwed there) heat is heat. I don't know what plastic it is made of. I doubt the wiring is cheaper than the real unit but the non-shock isolated lamp is dissapointing. I don't know how this would affect the unit. (The only way to tell is to turn it on for about 3-5 minutes and get the lamp good an hot and fire 30-60 rounds and see what happens.) I wish I were a richer man but destructive testing of parts that i don't personally have a need for is outside of my income level. [b]If you want to empty 10-20mags this is not a good idea (nor is any plastic handguard). But if you really wanted one and use you ar more like a police officer (30-60rds being normal maximum use) you should again be fine and if not you can always get a new bulb and sell it to an airsofter.[/b]
Link Posted: 8/27/2003 9:15:15 AM EDT
Actually that reminded me of my Wilcox Beamer I just sold. It had a non-shock isolated bulb and I used it on a handgun. No problems. Handguns have a lot more kick than Ar's. I would venture to guess heat would be your only issue. Although Heat/melting issues are serious considerations.
Link Posted: 8/27/2003 8:24:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/27/2003 8:26:43 PM EDT by Michael64]
I have the cantilever mount and it is NOT marked (no logos) so if your has KAC logos you got the real thing.
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Not so fast Green0, I found this pic on one of the airsoft sites. [img]http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data/500/6766NBACCkacOFFSET-med.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 8/27/2003 10:34:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/27/2003 10:39:02 PM EDT by Green0]
My brother has the Guarder which looks like that (with the 6 torx screws) BUT has no lightening cut (the hole in the cantilever. It also has NO trademark. I installed it on his gun myself I know what it looks like. I would guess that is either an even better re-pro or a real KAC unit. (I still don't know if the KAC unit has trademarks I haven't talked to a user that is sure he has the KAC part). After seeing boomarms though my guess is this is a real part. (KAC) boomarms people have been known to buy a lot of real KAC parts for their airsoft guns (like that M4QD compensator that attaches to the M4 QD FH mentioned earlier).
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 6:09:51 PM EDT
Had a heck of a time finding the AS RAS 300, but here it is. Like you said, they also have the M4 and mid length versions, they are $168: [IMG]http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/6de8ffd4.jpg[/IMG]
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 8:59:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2003 9:09:14 PM EDT by Green0]
Damn there are some talented web surfers here. I couldn't find pics outside of WGC which has them all copyright and link protected. As you can see it can and will assemble onto a real rifle. (using a steel barrel nut) and 2 alignment pins [I have the AS RAS 150 and 300mm and have found the barrel nuts to fit real AR uppers and they do have gas tube holes] I've decided to use the AS on my deer rifle. Whenever my custom order Bushy 16in Dissipator fluted HBAR barrel gets here I will assemble it and get pics up. [b]I guess it's my wa of saying what the heck saving money is a good thing and maybe it's my way of keeping some URX hope alive should KAC ever release it. (as then I could afford to get rid of the nockoff RAS)[/b] By the way it is marked "M4 SNIPER RAS" on the right side as with early FF RAS's. also the grip that came with mine was the most realistic copy of the KAC unit I've seen yet. It was smooth too (as opposed to G&P which makes them a little rougher in texture.)
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 7:42:45 PM EDT
Yeah, that picture was copyright protected, so had to snag it off the website. Am sure they won't mind, may bring them more sales huh? Here is the link: [URL]http://www.wargameclub.com/pcart/shopper.php?itm=AS-RAS-300_cat_RIS%20and%20RAS[/URL]
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 9:35:48 PM EDT
It's not the copyright law that bothers me I just didn't know how to get the pic to link or the website to link. when I bookmark it just goes: wargameclub.com and sends me back to the HOME PAGE. Those Chinese are smart computer guys.
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 9:44:09 PM EDT
I saved the whole page as a .htm document. It will save two files. One of them will be a file folder and will have the pictures in it, so then just put the picture on a server. You can also find pictures like that in your temp internet bin, but that particular one did not show up there. Did not have any trouble with the link, must be your browser settings?
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 9:49:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2003 9:53:06 PM EDT by Green0]
No the link works- I'm saying when I linked to the page earlier it didn't work because I couldn't get past their security BS that linked me to the frontpage. If you go to the link and hit the "LAST PAGE" button you will go to the page with their other AS RAS's AS FF and CA STD RAS's are the only ones to look at the others are crap.
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