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Posted: 7/18/2003 12:33:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2003 6:11:12 PM EDT by POF-USA]
This new product is currently being tested by the military, and will be offered to the public for the first time in Phoenix, AZ. at the CrossRoads Gun show this weekend:

Designed & Manufactured by: POF-USA, Inc.

The “Predator Rail System”, Patent Pending.
Link to picture:
http://www.pof-usa.com/ar15gallery.htm (picture is one of the weapons sent to the military for testing)

The most advanced Free Floating, rail system currently available for this weapon system,
M-16/AR-15.
Available to the public by September 2003.
The “Predator rail system”, advanced design is the Strongest, Lightest weight, Rigged mounted,
Free Floating, Advanced rail designed system. The advanced rail design allows the rail system
and it’s accessories to be lighter in weight then any other product available.
This advanced rail design takes the current “Picatinny rail” to the next level of performance.
Developed for the military, and currently being tested this month at Quantico, Marine base, Virginia.
Earlier rail system and Weapon system currently at Fort Hood (Army), and Camp Pendleton (Marines).


The “Predator Rail System”, currently has 2 models.
The P-4 (M-4 or carbine model), and P-20 (standard length or sniper model).
Accessories: Sling mount (PRS-1), Bi-pod mount (PRS-2), and Fixed front site (PRS-3).


ttp://www.pof-usa.com/ar15gallery.htm
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 1:51:42 AM EDT
Looks pretty SwEet.Difficulty in installation?
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 2:14:41 AM EDT
expected cost to us civilans?
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 4:46:57 AM EDT
Will they remove their web address and phone # on the civilian models?
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 5:41:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2003 6:11:55 PM EDT by POF-USA]
The price is only $249.00 The weapon shown was for military testing, so we mark these weapons with large fonts. The commerical markings are much smaller. Our system comes with a new barrel nut and free floating hand guard. Our "Predator" hand guard centers around the barrel nut then is indexed into the correct location by the flat top. Best regards, Frank POF-USA
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 6:11:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Redbone: Will they remove their web address and phone # on the civilian models?
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Yeah, looks like it should be in a NASCAR event....lol All kidding aside. Tell me POF, is this all aluminum? If so, is it a hog-out? 6061-T6? Weight without covers? Do you have longer covers or does one need to combine short lengths to get the coverage they want? Also, will there be more than one length offered? What is the oal of the unit shown? Thanks --RR
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 6:31:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2003 6:12:44 PM EDT by POF-USA]
Your correct. We used aircraft grade 6061-T6 alum. The P-4 rail shown is 3/4 lb. The "Predator" rail system will work with all existing hand guard covers. The one's used in the picture were from Cav Arms. Another benifit using our system is that our patent pending design allows for accessories to be smaller in size and lighter in weight. Best regards, Frank POF-USA
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 6:35:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2003 6:13:37 PM EDT by POF-USA]
We also have the P-20 for full lenght or sniper versions. We will soon have a smaller model available. We hope to have our website up this weekend with some more pictures of the system. Frank POF-USA
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 6:38:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2003 6:39:46 AM EDT by Redbone]
Will these need to be installed by a gunsmith or can the average Joe install them? Thanks
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 6:40:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By POF-USA: This new product is currently being tested by the military, and will be offered to the public for the first time in Phoenix, AZ. at the CrossRoads Gun show this weekend: Designed & Manufactured by: POF-USA, Inc. The “Predator Rail System”, Patent Pending. Link to picture: [url]www.pof-usa.com/ar15gallery.htm[/url] (picture is one of the weapons sent to the military for testing) The most advanced Free Floating, rail system currently available for this weapon system, M-16/AR-15. Available to the public by September 2003. The “Predator rail system”, advanced design is the Strongest, Lightest weight, Rigged mounted, Free Floating, Advanced rail designed system. The advanced rail design allows the rail system and it’s accessories to be lighter in weight then any other product available. This advanced rail design takes the current “Picatinny rail” to the next level of performance. Developed for the military, and currently being tested this month at Quantico, Marine base, Virginia. Earlier rail system and Weapon system currently at Fort Hood (Army), and Camp Pendleton (Marines). The “Predator Rail System”, currently has 2 models. The P-4 (M-4 or carbine model), and P-20 (standard length or sniper model). Accessories: Sling mount (PRS-1), Bi-pod mount (PRS-2), and Fixed front site (PRS-3). Available at: [url]www.POF-USA.com[/url] Sales@pof-usa.com 623-561-9572 wk. 623-321-1680 fax [img]www.pof-usa.com/ar15gallery.htm[/img]
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Link Posted: 7/18/2003 7:22:20 AM EDT
Does it allow any of the red dot optics to co-witness with the sights?
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 8:35:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2003 8:46:47 AM EDT by the1_roadrunner]
Originally Posted By DBerryhill: Does it allow any of the red dot optics to co-witness with the sights?
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't any handguard top rail have to be the same height as the existing receiver rail in order to provide co-witnessing to the iron front site? Of course I'm assuming we are referring to a flat top receiver. Clarification: I'm thinking red dot optics are designed to be the same height as iron sights would be when mounted to the standard flat top rail. Thus if red dot optics are mounted forward on the handguard rail, it needs to be inline with the flat top to achieve co-witnessing. --RR
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 8:55:28 AM EDT
Make one for the AR10T Rifle, I will buy it!!
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 9:41:48 AM EDT
Help sell me. Why is this better than ARMS SIR?
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 9:59:20 AM EDT
The rail handguard is pretty much like the design on the Youngs manufacture handguard and also the same as the one used on RROC gas op upper. knock off all those tacky white lettering this might be a decent handguard if they can keep the weight to a reasonable number.
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 11:15:19 AM EDT
From their website:
POF-USA IS THE U.S. DISTRIBUTOR FOR PAKISTAN ORDNANCE FACTORIES (POF). POF IS A LICENSED MANUFACTURER OF HK SINCE THE 1960s. THEY USE THE HK TOOLING TO MANUFACTURE HK STYLE PRODUCTS.
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Where are they made?
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 11:28:31 AM EDT
But can you mount an M203?
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 12:30:40 PM EDT
Definitely won't co-witness with the EoTechs. Is it the same height as the SIR? Will the same Aimpoint/ACOG mounts work?
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 1:14:28 PM EDT
Pakistan Ordinance Factory?
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 3:53:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2003 3:53:54 PM EDT by BigIck]
I had the same [?]; Pakistan Ordnance Factories[?]
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 6:13:29 PM EDT
It looks higher than to SIR system. The notches don't go back far enough to allow NV monoculer to to be mounted. I don't see how it is attached to the weapon either by the top dovetail or the barrel nut. It looks much heavier than the RAS 2 and #50 SIR, and requires the front sight and delta ring to be removed, and the RAS 2 and #50 SIR's are easy drop on's. The rails are not mil-spec 1913, not even close. All alum and will get very hot to try and hold, even with panels that the military want not to have to content with anymore. NOT MADE IN THE USA. Jack
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 7:59:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 2minkey: Pakistan Ordinance Factory?
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"All your Recycled tin can are Belong to Us."
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 11:33:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2003 6:15:08 PM EDT by POF-USA]
SMGLEE, You are correct. POF-USA has help A.D.D., Inc. with engineering, to improve the RROC system that is being tested by the military. POF-USA will manufacture and market this system . We have reduced the weight and improved the picitinnay rail design. We have all the same external mounting features as the standard picitinnay rail. Our improved design also accepts internal mounting features, with also helps to reduce the size and weight of mounting accessories. Our "Predator" rail system comes with a new barrel nut. The handguard is centered around the barrel and clocked into position using the picitinnay rail on the flat top upper. This is an Extremely Ridged system. The Free Floating hand guard almost seems as if it is part of the upper receiver. The "Predator" rail system is that ridged. The "Predator Rail System"(patent pending), is the first of the RROC system that is being offered to the public. These parts were designed and manufactured in the USA for the U.S. market. POF-USA is the exclusive importer and distributor for POF. We will continue to reprsent there Quaility product's for the HK weapon system. POF-USA is only expanding our market. hope we were able to answer some questions regarding our system. Best regards, Frank POF-USA
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 12:20:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2003 6:17:00 PM EDT by POF-USA]
3rdtk (Jack), Hope the following post helps to inform you with the information about the "Predator" rail system (patent pending). Our "Predator" rail system was designed/engineered and manufactured in the USA for the U.S. market. This is the RROC system A.D.D. Inc. designed for military applications. POF-USA is working (engineering/manufacturing), with A.D.D. Inc., to improve the system. The hand guard system is the first part of the improved RROC system that will be available to the civilian market. POF-USA is manufacturing and marketing the "Predator" rail system (patent pending). The "Predator" hand guard comes with a new barrel nut which centers the hand guard around the barrel, and is indexed, by the picitinnay rail on the flat top upper. The "Predator" rail external features are to the "Exact", 1913 mil-spec. What you see in the picture is one of our improved feature of our "Predator" rail system. Our rail design gives us the ability to reduce weight and size of mounts on the rail. Two simple set screws with locking set screws hold this system on the upper receiver. The "Predator" rail system mounts so ridged to the upper, it almost feels as if it is part of the receiver. Our hand guard is Free Floation. Our product is 6063-T5 aircraft grade aluminum. The picture shows allot of slots, with dips and valleys throughout the entire rail surface design. This helps to increase the surface area of the hand guards, and aluminum helps reduce heat fast. Example a flute barrel has more surface area to disipate heat compared the a round barrel. Our price is only $xxx.xx each. Hope we were able provide you information about our "Predator" rail system (patent pending). Best regards, Frank POF-USA
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 12:47:21 AM EDT
This is scary. 2nd time in 48hrs Ive agreed with 3rdtk. WHO in the military is testing this, and under what request proposal was it submitted? Shipping one to someone to play with doesnt count as testing. I'll pass.
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 4:47:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2003 4:48:51 PM EDT by TREETOP]
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 6:48:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 8:41:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 9:55:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 12:51:49 AM EDT
Funky and space gun-y.. I like it! Now, if I weren't so poor...
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 6:34:04 AM EDT
Can you replace the front tower, or does it need to stay off? Jim
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 10:41:01 AM EDT
How would the carbine model work with a mid-length gas system? Also, what types of BUIS are compatible with it?
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 7:31:29 PM EDT
ILOVE2SHOOT, Is that an ASA side-cocking upper on your rifle? If so, can you provide any feedback on it? Thanks. Sluggo
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 10:09:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2003 10:11:10 PM EDT by ILove2Shoot]
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 12:40:17 AM EDT
Hmmmmm, all sounds good so far. Maybe this IS the cheap and easy answer to my SPR project. Keep the info coming, and let's see some real grueling tests! [:D]
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 10:53:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2003 10:59:31 AM EDT by Green0]
[img]http://www.pof-usa.com/ar15gallery.htm[/img] That is an RROC upper. (I see the finned aluminum heat sink and M14 gas piston deal under it.) Why the glossy finish? Can you sell the Heat sink for aftermarket bbls (like Bushmaster). Or better yet sell the entire RROC upper with 16 carrier buffer and 1/2in28tpi threads for attachment of a suppressor mount.
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 11:33:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2003 11:34:26 AM EDT by DBerryhill]
Ok, what about sights? I can't tell by the photos - is there enough room left on the flattop receiver rail to mount a back-up rear sight? I'd love to see a photo with front and rear sights and an Aimpoint or Eotech mounted on it.
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 3:30:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 6:43:45 PM EDT
THe RROC front sight will not cowhitness with an EO but maybe it would with a low aimpoint comp. Niether will the std post as it is the same height.
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 10:43:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2003 6:18:20 PM EDT by POF-USA]
GreenO, Your correct. This is the RROC system. We can and do manufacture a fixed front site. Correct me if I'm incorrect, but the sighting systems all seem to be at different height levels. If this is correct, they manufactures should all be held to a standard like the 1913 picitinnay rail is held to a mil-spec dimensions. This would make the co-witness on all set-ups the same. Our system is flexible, because use machine our "Predator" rail system. We can extend the end of the rail on the flat top if needed to have the rear flip up site and the front site on the rail if needed. We can also change the height of the front fixed height if needed. The best way to cure this is would be standardizing the height of all optics above the picitinanny rail. Our "Predator" rail system is only 3/8" thick over the flat top upper. Our hand guard system only has (2) 10-32 set screws to mount the hand guard to the upper receiver. We also have (2) 10-32 hollow set screws used as a mechanical jam nut so not loctite is needed. Our rail system is extremely ridged. Hope I answered your questions. Send me a e-mail at:Sales@pof-usa.com so I can e-mail some pictures of our system. Best regards, Frank POF-USA
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 11:14:35 PM EDT
Anyone know what back-up rear sights will work with this system?
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 7:19:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2003 7:27:31 AM EDT by DBerryhill]
Originally Posted By POF-USA:...If this is correct, they manufactures should all be held to a standard like the 1913 picitinnay rail is held to a mil-spec dimensions...
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It sounds like your system uses sights that are a different height than the fixed sight rifles. How about using the fixed A2 sight height as the standard. If your system uses sights that are a different height then you are not helping to establish a "standard."
...Our system is flexible, because use machine our "Predator" rail system. We can extend the end of the rail on the flat top if needed to have the rear flip up site and the front site on the rail if needed. We can also change the height of the front fixed height if needed.
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With so many back up sights already on the market, why not make your system compatible with them? It looks like you just need to shorten the rail that attaches to the top of the upper receiver so there would be enough room to mount a flip-up rear sight to the receiver. If the sights are kept at the same height as the stock sights then optic mounts will probably be made to cowitness with the sights. Designing your system to use sights that are non-standard almost guarantees that optic mounts are going to be different as well.
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 11:42:56 AM EDT
I think most manufacturers use the A2 front sight as a standard, this ensures maximum compatibility. Systems that don't, like the older ZM kit whose front sight is too low, render all AR15 rear sights incompatible (read: useless, ask me how I know), never mind co-witnessing with Reflex/Aimpoint/holo sights. ZM subsequently changed this, it's now of the same height as a regular AR15 sight tower. Hopefully it's not too late to change the front sight design. Products from KAC and ARMS are simply drop-in kits that allow the users to make use of their existing equipment, not sure if this is designed into their products, but why change something that works very well and needs no changing?
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 12:24:59 PM EDT
I'm going to save this info and check this out later.
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 12:42:50 PM EDT
[img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=14981[/img] So this is a device for turning an AR15 into a Hi-Point carbine...? [;D]
Originally Posted By ILove2Shoot: Did I mention there are now 3 different Lengths of rail covers.....
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I like it!
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 3:05:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 7:24:22 PM EDT
DBerryhill, Your correct it is frustrating chasing all the different height of sights. I wish the military would have standardized the sight height off the picitinnay rail as a standard. There are many different sight heights and many mfg. Which sight height do you standardize too? Best regards, Frank POF-USA
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 7:49:47 PM EDT
The military do have established ht's for the irons and the red dot optic's, etc. If you were a manufacture for the military you would know that. If you read the gov't solicitations they give specific dimentions off the flat top receiver amoungst many other specific's. If you read and look at the mil standard 1913 spec's you would see that your improvment to the dovetail rail design would not be accepted for trials other than lets go to the range and shoot a little. Jack
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 7:55:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 3rdtk: The military do have established ht's for the irons and the red dot optic's, etc. If you were a manufacture for the military you would know that. If you read the gov't solicitations they give specific dimentions off the flat top receiver amoungst many other specific's. If you read and look at the mil standard 1913 spec's you would see that your improvment to the dovetail rail design would not be accepted for trials other than lets go to the range and shoot a little. Jack
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BINGO
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 9:28:33 PM EDT
(Dick Swan), I mean Jack, Thanks for the information.
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 9:34:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By POF-USA: (Dick Swan), I mean Jack, Thanks for the information.
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[rolleyes]
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