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Posted: 6/8/2003 9:04:36 PM EDT
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Well, I was one of the few folks who got one of the Magpull MSS M93 experimental stocks. The date on the invoice for that initial stock was 2/1/02. Its 4 months later and I somewhat recently got the production model. I just wanted to post a report on how things have held up with the experimental and how I like the production model. First on how the experimental one held up. It held up great. The rifle this stock is on gets used and handled a lot. In addition to getting shot regularly both leisurely, in training and in CQB competitions, its a display gun at a local gun shop. People are handling it all the time. It probably gets opened and closed 10 times a day on average. Its also been dropped twice (that I know of)!!! The only issue I have experienced I haven't even experienced yet. The plastic inserts that you install as a preset opening position is getting worn out. It isn't worn just yet, but you can see it will wear out eventually. I will have to post a picture later so you can see what I mean, but until then I will explain it as best I can. The notches on the bottom of the buffer tube are used as the different positions the stock can be opened to. On any other adjustable stock, if you want to open the stock to a position other than all the way, you sort of have to slowly open the stock and feel for the mid-position you desire. On the MSS, there are little plastic inserts you can use to have the stock open to the position you like every time. Since the position I happen to like is somewhere between all the way open and all the way closed, this is just one of several things I REALLY like about the MSS. However, the plastic insert would have eventually given way. I would like to see a stronger, or metal insert at some point. I have to tell you though, this is a very minor point. First of all, I am sure that Magpul would make these inserts available at a very low cost. I don't know that for certain, but I suspect they wont cost much AT ALL to get replacements. Not to mention you like 2 or 3 of them when you order a stock anyway. On top of this, in addition to having the one insert in the spot you want, Magpul very ingeniously engineered a spot for one spare spacer on the stock itself. So you will have at least one spare on hand at any time. So considering how often the stock I have gets opened and closed every day, and that the spacer in question had been eaten only about half way through, and that I have one or two spares, I would think this would mean that an average user should expect probably about 5 times the life (or more) than I was getting. In any case... Which is probably a matter of years per insert, not months. Other than that the stock held up extremely well and I cant think of a single complaint. While manipulating the buttons and releases of the stock and sliding it off the tube was at first awkward and clumsy for me, this was, as I expected, just a matter of being unfamiliar with it. Initially I was just used to the old style. Its all any of us knew really. The MSS is a totally new (and IMHO better) design. After familiarization and repetition, manipulating the stocks controls and features is now as simple and easy as any other stock. Even the smaller buttons that allow you to bypass the preset and/or remove the stock all together became much easier to use as I got more and more used to it. How does the new one compare? Well, the small buttons I just mentioned that are used to by-pass the preset position and/or remove the stock entirely from the tube are larger and even easier to access. On the experimental stock, when you pushed the release back in to lock it into position, there was a little "click" sound. It wasn't un-natural or anything, in fact it almost seemed natural. when you heard the click, you knew it was locked in place. I would not have even thought about trying to get rid of it... but that sound is gone on the new one. When I first put the new stock on, I thought something was broken because I didn't hear the little click. I learned later this was by design. Now that it is gone, I think its a great improvement! Same solid lock up, but without an audible (and in some situations... unwanted) indicator. I'm also glad I got the stock extension sling mount. The one thing I really didn't like about my experimental stock was that I sort of had to rig a side sling mount to it for the particular sling I use. It worked just fine and was 100% solid, but it was rigged and looked rigged. I didn't much mind that, but I didn't much love it either. The side sling mount is much better, more stream lined and natural in my view. I got the side rail, but have not installed it. I guess if I did I could use a Knights sling swivel and that would be a great upgrade too. I may just do that in the future, but for now I am using the stock extension style mount and it works great. The new stock also has slots machined into the buffer tube. I've been told these are for cheek pieces. I have not seen a cheek peice for this yet, but again, I am literally amazed at the modularity of this unit. I cant believe the thought that goes into this accessory. They took something that before did nothing but contain a spring and made it more useful. That seems to be the whole idea of this stock. What was once something that really didn't do much other than give you a spot to put your cheek and hold to your shoulder now does a lot more. The only options you had before was a 2, 4 or 6 position stock. Ribbed or no ribbed. Aside from that, you had a few colors to choose from. All of them were wobbly, just some much worse than others. All of them left you with half a cheek on the tube, the other on the stock. The MSS has really changed all of that. I know we've been through how already and I wont do it again here. But I thought the experimental stock was "the bomb" so to speak, and now that I have the production model, its even better than that. All I can do now is bug Rich and Magpul to keep up all their hard work and put out the sniper stock so I can put it on my SPR!!! edited to fix model number! |
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Not to nitpick, but I believe the model number is M93. I've also had a lot of great results using mine for the same alloted amount of time. Far superior to the old style collapsible stocks. Which it should be considering the price. I'm looking forward to cheek welds and a rubber butt plate in the near future. I'm hoping different height cheek welds are available. I would not be opposed to adjustible due to the fact Magpul is making it. Adjustible would be ideal for changing the height to accomodate different iron and glass sighting system heights. I just hope it follows the KISS rules. My only beef is about the butt plate, I need a rubber one. Here in AZ, heavy clothing isn't a option during the summer. It's tatooed me quite a few times when shooting with a thin shirt or tank-top. If I had my way, I'd say a steel reinforced rear plate, with a rubberized surface that is threaded to the rear. -Steve |
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I complained about the fragile detents on the Experimental stock. I did an experiment to see how long they would last in an extreme situation. I keep my stock in the closed position for storage but unlocked. The stock (both my experimental and production stock) is designed to be tight enough when closed that the lock is not needed to keep it in place, its held by friction. When I want to get the stock ready ASAP I hold the pistol grip with my shooting hand, pull HARD AND FAST on the tail unit untill it is in the correct position then slap the locking mechanism with the heel of my support hand. This takes about 1 second total. I did this hard and aggressive about 20 times before my detent gave way and the stock ripped on through it. If its done gently the thing will lasts for hundreds of openings. After I complained I was told it is a "disposable" part and to just use my spare. I noticed there was 2 spares with my stock instead of 1 spare with the original. As far as the lack of a click when locking the mechanism I am unsure of what you are talking about. Mine still has a loud audible click when locking. On the old unit you could not install the stock by just sliding the tail unit on. You had to press in the capture buttons and pull the latch to get it to go on. Now all it takes is pulling the main latch and it pops right on. This has to do with a redesign of the metal locking tabs where the stock slides on. It went from a 45 degree angle to a much shallower angle. It cant be described in words I hope NewAR-Guy can take pics and post the differences. The whole unit is less "sticky" and slides smoothly compared to the Experimental version. The locking mechanism is much improved. I beat the hell out of my experimental stock. Smacked it into the ground to simulate malfunction clearance, buttstroked trees and the heavy bag at the gym and in general tried to abuse it. The latch still worked great but if you pulled hard back and forth on the stock it no longer was 110% solid. It would shift about 1 or 2 mm back and forth. The new latch is a bit stiffer to use than the old one but its 110% solid and shows no signs of loosening up. I can push, pull, twist, beat it up, whatever, and it still is just as solid as a fixed stock with not even a millimeter of play anywhere. I put the rail on the side of my stock. I found that if I did not use the "washers" that are supposed to be used to attach the rail to a regular handguard as spacers the rail covered one of the capture buttons and was to close to the button for me to get my finger under the rail. by using the washers as spacers I can now use the button again. I have also figured out what I want to put on the rail. Since I have a Surefire M900 on the fron I have no way to hold the rifle should I decide to remove it. I put a KAC rail on the panel and although the clip is too wide to actually lock in place (I could modify the rail to let it lock but thats another story) the rail is held quite well just by friction. With the rail mounted on the side I cannot even tell its there when operating the stock or firing the weapon on my strong side and its till comfortable when I shoot left handed too although I can tell its there. The funny thing is the way the rail is shaped and where it sits it actually feels like it was intended to be used like this. I wonder if there are any quick detatch side sling swivels that will fit in any of the holes in the tail unit of the stock. I even considered a KAC rail attatched unit to the top rail on the tail of the stock but wonder if that would make the sling get in the way. |
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Just installed an M93 Initial production on my Colt LE Carbine,so far so good,will take it out on the weekend and wring it out a bit.Outstanding design,I must admit I was skeptical at first but this thing is rock solid. [img]http://www3.sympatico.ca/mg34/pics/lecarbine.jpg[/img] |
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Well after a short (15min) conversation with Richard, I felt it necessary to come an dpost some more feedback. Firstly once again a huge thank you to Richard His customer service and help is outstanding. Secondly this stock is GREAT.      Not only does it give a 100% cheekweld but the side sling swivel is at a perfect position for a single point sling. Makes transition trg a snap. I had sworn off slings after a exciting issue with a 'tactical' sling and a scuffle... But for CQB I have refound a love. Patrolling with it (M93) is outstanding, as one can close it up when one is rucked up and then pop it open a notch or two when just wearning Webbing/LBV. (I think slings make you lazy patrolling...) Anyway two great bid KevinB thumbs up. |
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IS THE MAGPUL MSS M93 A GOOD STOCK? WHAT DID THE USMC SOCOM DET SELECT FOR THEIR M4A1'S? THE MAGPUL MSS M93. KEVIN - TRY THE SLING OVER YOUR RIGHT SHOULDER RATHER THAN LEFT. THE PRIMARY WEAPON WILL FALL EVEN MORE OUT OF THE WAY DURING TRANSITION DRILLS. PLUS, THE PRIMARY WEAPON WHEN SO SLUNG CAN BE ROTATED AFT AND LOCKED IN A WEAPONS CATCH [DIETER/CQD] WHEN DESIRABLE. COME ON DOWN AND SHOOT WITH US. [URL]WEAPONSTRAINING.COM[/URL] WES GRANT [URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL] |
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Quoted: I'm also glad I got the stock extension sling mount. The one thing I really didn't like about my experimental stock was that I sort of had to rig a side sling mount to it for the particular sling I use. It worked just fine and was 100% solid, but it was rigged and looked rigged. I didn't much mind that, but I didn't much love it either. The side sling mount is much better, more stream lined and natural in my view. I got the side rail, but have not installed it. I guess if I did I could use a Knights sling swivel and that would be a great upgrade too. I may just do that in the future, but for now I am using the stock extension style mount and it works great. Neil, I don't see how my KAC QD swivel would work as well on a rail as the KAC insert I wish I could install in front of my Magpul M93. I know the rail model would attach, but I really liked my QD, Single Point Sling. Thinking about trying the Spacer Model, as I have one on order for my kids snubby stock. I'll steal that one if it will work! We'll see. That's what I would change, if anything. |
| Troy! You got one!!! Awesome! I'm glad the stock finally swayed you... Im sure you will love it. There seem to be a fair amount of people who want the QD sling stud, and I am sure it wouldnt be that hard to make. Thats the awesome, awesome thing about this stock. Anything seems possible. Whats even better it that Magpul really seem to be listening to what customers was and incorporating their ideas into this modular and evolving design. I would suspect a QD sling stud is in the future for the stock. Hope to see you Sunday man! |
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"Smacked it into the ground to simulate malfunction clearance" What kind of malfunction clearance is that? If it can't be cleared by pulling the charging handle you will probably need to kick the charging handle (works every time) I learned a lesson though, don't expose yourself when you aren't able to return fire. : ) I wish we had ranges in WI that allow shooters to walk around like that. The only place I have that will allow that is a 15meter indoor range. AHH WI... home of the most rabid range nazis in America. |
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Green0 the 'combat kick' is not really desireable. Pat's term -from my understanding is just rapping the but off the ground to give you extra leverage/force on the CH - it is a lot quicker and keeps your hands on the weapon - you probably do it curently and dont realise it... |
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As M4arc stated, the only known unit to utilize them is MARSOC. If you pick up the latest issue of SWAT magazine, there is an article written by Pat Rogers on the IFAVs. There is a pic of him with his and the driver's M4s in front of them. Both carbines have the Magpuls on them. |
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