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Posted: 5/12/2003 8:19:43 AM EDT
I am looking for the best chrome lined 14.5 M4 barrel and have heard a lot of mixed info on them.

Are they accurate or not?

I would be going for a 1:7 or 1:9 twist.

I wouldn't have asked but my last barrel I got from Bushmaster was a 14.5HBAR and shot 2.5-3.5MOA (with .55grain ball). and I thought the HBAR would be one way to guarantee 1MOA. A call to a Bushmaster rep will give you the answer: "all of our barrels are capable of 1MOA even the 10.5in barrels". A remark that is obviously BS.

I know it's not me I have an ACOG and my DCM shot under 1/3MOA with iron sights, so I've isolated it to the barrel.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 8:53:54 AM EDT
Consistent sub-moa out to 300 yards. Thats the longest range I've been able to shoot for groups. This was using only a single sandbag on a bench with inexpensive Winchester Value pack ammo. At BRC last year I shot the 450 yard steel plate over and over. From prone I was in the black 1' x 1' center all day long. Couldnt really score it for group size, but I was impressed enough. This was with SA Surpluss ammo too. To be fair, the rifle is hardly a stock configuration. Its a 14.5" Bushmaster M4 barrel with the new Vortex flash suppressor, #45 SIR, TA31 ACOG and a JP Enterprise singel stage trigger that breaks at less then 3 pounds. However, the barrel itself is certainly capable.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 8:58:22 AM EDT
Oh and BTW, HBARs do not equla accuracy. The standard HBAR and the M4 barrel are made from the same exact barrels, they are just contoured differently. the HBAR does not gaurantee you better accuracy, just less heat build up. Bushmasters remark is not BS at all. When using optics, the shorter barrel is just as accurate as the longer barrel. Some would argue even more accurate due to less barrel whip. Your group sizes will be more or less the same in a 10.5" barrel as a 20" barrel, but because the short barrel looses velocity quicker, the 10.5" barrel's group will just be lower.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 9:18:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/12/2003 9:19:14 AM EDT by CMMG]
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 9:23:50 AM EDT
I have shot some of my best groups at 100 yards with a Colt M4 14.5" 1 in 7, even without a free floated barrel. always with a acog of some sort. i think the ta01 reticle produces better groups for me than the chevron, IMO.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 9:44:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/12/2003 9:48:05 AM EDT by Green0]
I was saying BS not because of barrel length but because my personal result has not been that good. I was shooting .55grain ball from Greece maybe it was ammo? That ammo grouped about 1.5MOA with my Ruger Mini 14 though. NEW AR GUY what grain weight was the ammo and what twist rate is your barrel?
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 10:50:39 AM EDT
If you want to call BS try some match ammo first instead of some crap ammo. Thats like saying "Bushmaster said their rifles wont jam in less than 1000 rounds without cleaning but when I loaded up my USA mags it jammed constantly." [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 10:57:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/12/2003 11:00:40 AM EDT by Green0]
[b]I'm buying 2 new barrels and looking for real personal experience trying to notice trends with different manufacturers ie COLT, BM, DPMS and whoever else makes them so I can get the most for my money when I buy 2 new M4 barrels[/b] I ran 10 USA mags in a 11.5in gun with a 900+RPM ROF and NO JAMS The USA mag thing is a old wives tale. and with a dremel tool and $4 a mag you jam mod the mags for USGI baseplates and change springs and followers and they are every bit as good as GI mags (except they are brand new and not refinished twice and on their last life).
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 11:10:18 AM EDT
Best value for the money is going to be Bushmaster. They give you the chrome lined bore and chamber made with the milspec 4150 steel. So does Colt, but their barrels will cost you a whole lot more. DPMS did make a special run of 4150 steel M4 barrels with chrome bore and chamber, but it was a special run only and the price was not that much different than the Bushmaster. Furthermore. Bushmaster probably makes these barrels every single day of the week. DPMS only did a special run of these barrels, all their other M4 barrels are 4140 steel and they are not chrome lined. On the off chance that you had a problem with the DPMS barrel you may have to wait for them to make another special run. On the other hand, if you happen to have the misfortune of getting a dud Bushmaster, they could help you with a quickness. That being said, your USA mags may run ok, but they are made from cheap steel, will rust easily and bend out of shape even easier. If you baby them, they may continue to work well for a while. And there's nothing bad to be said about that, so long as you know these are probably the least sturdy mags ever made.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 11:16:39 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 11:17:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/12/2003 11:21:58 AM EDT by Green0]
Thanks for the info I think that tells me all I need to know. "That being said, your USA mags may run ok, but they are made from cheap steel, will rust easily and bend out of shape even easier. If you baby them, they may continue to work well for a while. And there's nothing bad to be said about that, so long as you know these are probably the least sturdy mags ever made." [b]My USA mags were aluminum and identifiable by their dark shiny black adonizing that was a little strange and 2 holes that arent present on ther mags along with flat baseplates- but deffinitely aluminum The Steel mags are Western metal mags and are horrible (I never fired a round out of the ones I bought they fit the lower so tightly you needed good strength to pull the suckers out.) The only gripe I had against USA was the fact that the baseplates would try to come off all the time and I remedied that by modifying them and installing USGI baseplates.[/b] The RRA barrels sound great but I think they are 16inch barrels and I need 14.5inch for my ACOG to work right and just because I want the minimum legal 16inch hunting length for WI.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 3:16:35 PM EDT
I have had great luck with the Colt M4 bbl's My M4A1 heavy (RO921) has done 10rds groups sub MOA with Hornady 60gr and 75gr TAP, and HSM and Blackhills 77gr. My M4A1 (RO977) is a little looser but not by much.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 4:24:52 PM EDT
I consistently get 2 to 3 MoA groups using Win Q3131A. That decreases to 1.75 to 2.25 MoA when I use Black Hills 68gr BTHP remanned but I don't think I can justify the cost of it for that kind of improved performance. I always have one flyer when I use 68gr BTHP too. This is with Aimpoint, no benchrest, but my arms and sitting on the table.(prone is better)
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 12:35:05 AM EDT
"I know it's not me I have an ACOG and my DCM shot under 1/3MOA with iron sights, so I've isolated it to the barrel." You have shot 5 round groups at 100 yards and gotten 1/3 MOA groups with iron sights?? I would really like to see that.
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 7:30:55 AM EDT
You have shot 5 round groups at 100 yards and gotten 1/3 MOA groups with iron sights?? I would really like to see that. That's off a bench - prone with a shooting sling (turner) groups hover around the size of a quarter. RRA DCM guns are really nice. (that was Black Hills 50grain moly coated ammo) I don't know how they shoot with anything else. [b]I'm going to return to the range and try my luck with the 14.5HBAR again with better ammo (black hills) probably later this week Thanks for all the info guys. It sounds like the ammo might have been the culprit.[/b]
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 7:53:37 PM EDT
Just reading this thread and thougt I would post this... some are a little surprised to see this, but we saw so many people using coins and whatnot to determine group size, that we did some figgerin' and have the following on the range -- this is for .223 cal bullets. If you can COMPLETELY cover all of your shots with a quarter, no broken paper showing, that is a little better than 3/4 MOA. If you can cover all the shots with a dime, that is a little better than 1/2 MOA. If you can cover all the shots with the base of a 7.62 (.308) case, that is just about 1/4 MOA. If you can cover all the shots with a paper plate, that is Minute of Pie...
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 9:34:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/13/2003 9:40:45 PM EDT by Green0]
I was going to take a girl (who happened to be slightly liberal but HOT : ) shooting back when I was in highschool and I wanted to impress and so I went to range to test what I thought might be possible and impressive.... I taped a quarter nickel and a dime to a piece of paper at 100yds and (after moving my TASCO SS from a 300Yd zero to 100yds) I fired 3 consecutive shots off the harris bi-pod and hit all three coins with my Win M70 .300win Mag-- I was flat out impressed by "the rifle" and me. [b] but alas there is a moral to the story... the bitch kept putting off the chance to shoot some really cool weaponry and I never got to "wow the newby spectator" so it was really a waste of time[/b] But I still have 2 of the three coins- the nickel must of been bullet resistent as it got punched right through the backstop and I never found it. [b]I think that is the answer to why people like to cover groups with commonly known sized coins: 1. the coin is handy- measuring sticks are not (while I admit on occasion I break out a dial calipers to be really accurate when I have all kinds of time on my hands). 2. they (including me on occasion) like to mentally picture the ability to hit the given coin at the given distance that's my take on it[/b]
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 10:14:59 PM EDT
Hope you don't think that was a knock on you Green0... just thought I would post that as a reference for others to use... I don't really use coins that much as I am married and have not seen any form of currency for some years now... also, I was broke off of having loose change and a gun on me at the same time many years ago [:/]
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 1:15:49 AM EDT
Even 3/4 MOA with open sights is very impressive with a 5 shot group.
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