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Posted: 12/10/2002 8:53:11 AM EDT
Can I get some feedback from knowledgable individuals that can tell me about the quality, fit, finish, reliability and functionality of the Hesse Arms, HAR25, .308 cal, semi-auto rifle? I understand from the advertisement that it accepts 'modified' FAL mags? What does modified mean? Are the rifles worth the 900 dollar price tag? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Shannon
Link Posted: 12/10/2002 5:14:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/10/2002 6:10:39 PM EDT
PUT THE HESSE DOWN AND STEP AWAY!!! Seriously before I new better I bought a couple of there lowers. Not one was in spec. The only one I have left is a stainless steel model that I hade to do some major work to fix. He also will not stand behind his work or product. I brought a receiver to him at a show that had a crooked buffer hole and a magwell so tight you had to yank the mags out and he wouldnt do a thing. Just sat in his chair and asked what I wanted him to do about it. All the finished rifles I have seen at the fun shows just look like crap...sorry, but that is putting it nicely. The only exceptin that I will make is the kevlar lowers...I have built a couple of these and have been perfect for myself and others that I have talked to. Some debate the strength, but so far I have a 9mm and a 223 with many 1000's of rounds with no problems.
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 8:47:43 AM EDT
I too have had bad experience with Hesse Arms I don't think you will find anyone here that has experience with the Hesse .308 rifle. I've asked questions about my problems but all you will get is anti-hesse arguments. Too bad but this is a fact. I'ld reccomend buyin an Eagle Arms Ar-10 with the free-float handguard and CM 24in barrel Like a cheap Ar-10 T. All you will miss is the SS barrel and match trigger and the price is around $1250 or so. I saw a review and the reviewers got 1/2in to .90in groups extreme spread (and this was 15 5 shot groups.) You'll be happy you did.
Link Posted: 12/12/2002 5:53:36 AM EDT
You might want to wait for the New DPMS 308 rifle. DPMS has a very good reputation and the review I read in a SHOT show report sounded very favorable. Do a search on the DPMS forum. I believe their rifle will accept original 20 round AR-10 waffle mags. I saw quite a few of these mags at the latest big Reno show and they were considerably cheaper than new modified m-14 mags for the new AR-10. Someone is already taking orders for these rifles for about $995, but I can't point you to who.
Link Posted: 12/12/2002 12:08:42 PM EDT
Bad news there. A thread on the AR-10 forum a month or so ago reported that the DPMS rifle is going to be using its own proprietary 10-round mag, and will NOT be compatible with M-14 or FAL mags. Apparently there was a legal hassle with Armalite over the converted M-14 mags that the prototypes shown at the SHOT show used. This is supposed to be a long range "target" rifle, not a more general purpose one.
Link Posted: 12/12/2002 9:09:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2002 9:11:06 PM EDT by Raptor22]
You might want to wait for the New DPMS 308 rifle. DPMS has a very good reputation and the review I read in a SHOT show report sounded very favorable. Do a search on the DPMS forum. I believe their rifle will accept original 20 round AR-10 waffle mags. I saw quite a few of these mags at the latest big Reno show and they were considerably cheaper than new modified m-14 mags for the new AR-10. Someone is already taking orders for these rifles for about $995, but I can't point you to who.
View Quote
Al's Custom is offering them to ar15.com members for $989. He has the rights to the first 50 from DPMS. [url]www.alscustom.com/index.html[/url]
Link Posted: 12/12/2002 9:18:06 PM EDT
That DPMS looks nice. (WOW it's affordable too) unless you are blasting I'ld reccomend the DPMS too and with a .920 SS barrel it might even outshoot an AR-10 T (stock) provided the trigger is good. SCREW HESSE ALL THEY'VE DONE IS SCREW ME. AND THEY'LD LIKE TO STEAL YOUR MONEY AND GIVE YOU TRASH TOO.
Link Posted: 12/13/2002 7:49:35 AM EDT
Thanks guys for all the posts and look forward to more input. This puts to rest alot of negative feedback I have already heard buzzing around regarding all of Hesse products and service and reliability and quality and and and and and and.... well you get it. I was sure that I could get several credible opinions and thank all my fellow ar15 bro's for all there help. DPMS does look good but dont like the idea of proprietary mags? Semper Fi from USMC Texas Sorry Fred ---------------------------------------- "Anything worth shooting is worth shooitng twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive." USMC Rules of Gunfighting
Link Posted: 12/13/2002 1:27:15 PM EDT
Did I say that the DPMS rifle accepted M-14 or FAL mags? I said it would accept the original AR-10 waffle mags! The same ones that the Knights SR-25 uses. It has been my experience that these are less expensive than modified M-14 mags for the new AR-10. I saw a bunch of Old AR-10/ SR-25 mags in great shape at the last Big Reno show for $65. I have yet to find a 20round M-14/AR-10 mag that cheap!
Link Posted: 12/13/2002 5:53:40 PM EDT
Read my post again. The DPMS .308 rifle will be using a BRAND NEW, EXCLUSIVE TO THAT RIFLE 10-ROUND MAGAZINE. No other type. It will NOT be using the old AR-10 waffle mags. The bottomline is: There WILL BE NO HIGH CAPACITY MAGAZINES FOR THIS RIFLE, nor does DPMS plan to change this fact. They are marketing this to the long-range target people NOT general purpose rifle people.
Link Posted: 12/13/2002 7:31:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2002 7:33:30 PM EDT by Wirebrush]
Take a look at the DPMS forum under industry. You will find at least two threads in which DPMS states that their rifle will accept the original AR-10 magazines. Maybe you should read your post again.
Link Posted: 12/13/2002 9:54:37 PM EDT
DON'T FORGET AH BOB AT ASA,AND HIS 308,THAT IS SUPPOSED TO TAKE FAL MAGS ALSO,seems they don't work,and they bought up Tons of USGI M-14 mags,Has anyone heard anything about these ASA 308's????? NOT THAT I WOULD BUY 1.although I do have their 9mm Upper on Stokes old SGW preban reciever,That upper ,once I figured to take out their Buffer,leave the carbine buffer in(not their heavy weight carbine buffer),use ONLY Wolff 9mm ammo,Now it shoots great,I don't believe I have had a FTF for 600+ rnds..but Bob is still the AH,Kinged here,and there.
Link Posted: 12/14/2002 6:44:50 AM EDT
You are totally right. I am an idiot and I apologise. I don't remember where I got the idea about the magazines, but bigger than life: [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=30&t=138997[/url]
Link Posted: 12/14/2002 9:37:51 AM EDT
I just saw about a dozen old AR-10 waffle mags at the gun show today for $69 too!
Link Posted: 12/14/2002 6:31:54 PM EDT
Forget hesse! I ordered a barrel and they charged my FFL's credit card, all I got was a empty box for the great low price of $70.00! It's too bad they can't make anything worth a hoot because I'd really like to have a .308 Galil. Listen to Troy, he hit the nail on the head.
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