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Posted: 7/23/2022 12:29:57 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 50cal: I had a Sendra a long time ago built up as an A1 style M4. Made a crazy amount of money on it during the Clinton ban. My very first AR was an A1 style carbine. Too bad it was a parts gun with substandard components. |
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Posted: 7/23/2022 10:35:08 AM EDT
[#2]
As the pictures have demonstrated, anything that is not a M16 is a M4 Carbine.
In clone world, it is a matter of how close can you get, and how close do you want to get. Pic of XM4, early M4 and M4A1 clones:  Attached FileXM4: peel washer for the flash suppressor, skinny or double shield handguards, feedramps, COLT PATENT FIREARMS rollmark (like A2s), 2 position or 4 position extension, assumption burst cam would be same as A2 M4: crush washer, govt. profile barrel non F marked FSB, probably m4 marked upper, COLT MFG CO rollmark, probably M4 burst cam M4A1: crush washer, govt. profile barrel probably with F marked FSB, COLT MFG CO rollmark The pic of 489 shows the rollmark in use with early M4s and the rear of the lower has the same profile as A2s which we can't replicate today with the lowers on the market. the COLT DEFENSE rollmark come in sometime during the GWOT. |
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Posted: 7/23/2022 12:57:43 PM EDT
[#3]
Current M4A1s have a heavier bbl, still M203 compatible but w/ vertical cuts instead of round ones.
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Posted: 7/23/2022 2:38:06 PM EDT
[#4]
Cool thread
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Posted: 7/24/2022 6:37:28 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Current M4A1s have a heavier bbl, still M203 compatible but w/ vertical cuts instead of round ones. Collect the entire set!  Attached File |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 7/25/2022 6:36:48 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HenryKnoxFineBooks: the COLT DEFENSE rollmark come in sometime during the GWOT. "Colt Defense LLC" was spun off from Colt's Manufacturing Company in 2002 |
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Posted: 7/25/2022 12:16:44 PM EDT
[#7]
Same website. For brevity I won't link to the specific page anymore. Suffice it to say unless I quote a different source all the pics I post are going to come from that same website unless specified otherwise.
 Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 7/25/2022 12:35:09 PM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 7/25/2022 1:53:05 PM EDT
[#9]
Private Angelo Wright, rifleman, 2nd Battalion, Belize
 Attached FilePrivate Angelo Wright, rifleman, 2nd Battalion, Belize Defence Force, fires from the prone position during a rifle marksmanship qualification course in Hattieville, Belize, Aug. 27, 2015. SPMAGTF-SC is a temporary deployment of Marines and Sailors throughout Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala, and Belize with a focus on building and maintaining partnership capacity with each country through shared values, challenges, and responsibilities. (U.S. Marine Corps photo by Lance Cpl. Abraham Lopez/Released) |
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Posted: 7/25/2022 1:55:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DocApocalypse]
[#10]
 Attached FilePrivate Erwin Garcia, rifleman, 2nd Battalion, Belize Defence Force, fires from the kneeling position during a rifle marksmanship qualification course in Hattieville, Belize, Aug. 27, 2015. SPMAGTF-SC is a temporary deployment of Marines and Sailors throughout Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala, and Belize with a focus on building and maintaining partnership capacity with each country through shared values, challenges, and responsibilities. (U.S. Marine Corps photo by Lance Cpl. Abraham Lopez/Released) I guess you can't really call this or the previous pic "early M4's", but the curious thing is to still see troops using the carry handle sight as late as 2015 when optics were already the norm. |
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Posted: 7/25/2022 2:06:21 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryNever seen a 20" barrel and collapsible stock with the US before. Interesting. |
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Posted: 7/25/2022 2:09:47 PM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 7/25/2022 2:19:31 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryThat is an A2 with a collapsible stock added. |
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Posted: 7/25/2022 2:20:36 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DocApocalypse: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/271112/ironsightsrange2_jpg-2465208.JPG I guess you can't really call this or the previous pic "early M4's", but the curious thing is to still see troops using the carry handle sight as late as 2015 when optics were already the norm. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DocApocalypse: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/271112/ironsightsrange2_jpg-2465208.JPG Private Erwin Garcia, rifleman, 2nd Battalion, Belize Defence Force, fires from the kneeling position during a rifle marksmanship qualification course in Hattieville, Belize, Aug. 27, 2015. SPMAGTF-SC is a temporary deployment of Marines and Sailors throughout Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala, and Belize with a focus on building and maintaining partnership capacity with each country through shared values, challenges, and responsibilities. (U.S. Marine Corps photo by Lance Cpl. Abraham Lopez/Released) I guess you can't really call this or the previous pic "early M4's", but the curious thing is to still see troops using the carry handle sight as late as 2015 when optics were already the norm. Those are probably the nations guns |
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Posted: 7/25/2022 2:49:27 PM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 7/25/2022 3:55:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DocApocalypse]
[#16]
Rubber Ducky
 Attached FileU.S. Army Cpl. Scott Slater, assigned to the 75th Ranger Regiment, pulls security with his M4 assault rifle during the Casualty Evacuation Challenge on Todd Field, Fort Benning, Ga., April 16, 2016. The 33rd annual Best Ranger Competition 2016 is a three-day event consisting of challenges to test competitor's physical, mental, and technical capabilities in honor of Lt. Gen. David E. Grange, Jr. (U.S. Army photo by Sgt. Austin Berner/Released) |
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USA
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Posted: 7/25/2022 3:56:29 PM EDT
[#17]
1992 I went over to the Ft Benning Infantry museum and they had "future" weapons on display.. they had optics and were probably M4 prototypes... No digital camera to preserve the moment.
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Posted: 7/25/2022 4:08:06 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By forager: 1992 I went over to the Ft Benning Infantry museum and they had "future" weapons on display.. they had optics and were probably M4 prototypes... No digital camera to preserve the moment.  Attached File |
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Posted: 7/25/2022 4:39:56 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By R0N: Those are probably the nations guns On the ones I could see the left side, there have not been any thing that looks like US PROPERTY marks, more like commercial / export style rollmarks. |
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Posted: 7/25/2022 4:44:49 PM EDT
[#20]
One thing I've always wondered is if there was ever an obvious case of an M4 with both an N1 stock and CAR-15 handguards in military service. Found it.
And this is a very recent photo. I think one of my M4's just decided to have this furniture.  Naval Aircrewman (Helicopter) 2nd Class Brian Spillane, from Mansfield, Massachusetts, assigned to the “Tridents” of Helicopter Sea Combat Squadron (HSC) 9, fires an M4 rifle during a qualification course at the Rodriguez outdoor range at Joint Expeditionary Base Little Creek in Virginia Beach, Virginia, May 4, 2020. HSC-9 is stationed in Norfolk, Virginia. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Rebekah M. Rinckey)  Attached File |
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Posted: 7/25/2022 4:57:32 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DocApocalypse: One thing I've always wondered is if there was ever an obvious case of an M4 with both an N1 stock and CAR-15 handguards in military service. Found it. And this is a very recent photo. I think one of my M4's just decided to have this furniture. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/271112/M4N1STOCKCARBINEHGS_jpg-2465418.JPG |
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Posted: 7/25/2022 5:03:41 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KitBuilder: Look at that castle nut and front lug profile on the lower receiver. It doesn't have an M4 castle nut. That's probably an old Colt 723 or 727 carbine that they installed a new M4A1 upper on. Somebody must've liked the old handguards. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KitBuilder: Originally Posted By DocApocalypse: One thing I've always wondered is if there was ever an obvious case of an M4 with both an N1 stock and CAR-15 handguards in military service. Found it. And this is a very recent photo. I think one of my M4's just decided to have this furniture. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/271112/M4N1STOCKCARBINEHGS_jpg-2465418.JPG Could be, or they have an armory full of rebuilds made up from whatever parts were in stock, and on this particular rifle probably procured the current standard upper to replace a worn out one. |
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Posted: 7/25/2022 5:41:17 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoMoAMMO: Never seen a 20" barrel and collapsible stock with the US before. Interesting. Iraq, 2011:  Attached File |
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Posted: 7/25/2022 5:46:16 PM EDT
[#24]
Another M4 that appears to have both the N1 stock and CAR handguards, although sometimes the angle of the photo fools me into believing the handguards are the skinny ones when they're really not.
 From Iraq.  Attached File Attached File |
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DC, USA
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Posted: 7/25/2022 7:10:55 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoMoAMMO: Never seen a 20" barrel and collapsible stock with the US before. Interesting. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoMoAMMO: Never seen a 20" barrel and collapsible stock with the US before. Interesting. I saw a pic from Iraq 2003 I think (2005?) of somebody in what looked like a US Air Force uniform with a 20 inch barrel and a carbine stock. I thought maybe it was borrowed from a Canadian. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 7/26/2022 6:54:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: lysanderxiii]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Air_Soft_Contractor: I saw a pic from Iraq 2003 I think (2005?) of somebody in what looked like a US Air Force uniform with a 20 inch barrel and a carbine stock. I thought maybe it was borrowed from a Canadian. The Army fielded bout 20 - 30,000 kits for the modification of M16s to have a collapsible stock, NSN 1005-01-560-6938. Basically, an M4 stock, receiver extension, nut, end plate, and spring. The buffer was a unique H6 buffer. This was a Theater temporary modification, and any rifle with it had to be returned to its standard full-length configuration before returning to the armory at the end of a rotation. |
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Posted: 7/26/2022 9:16:56 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By R0N: That is an A2 with a collapsible stock added. It looks like one of the early DM rifles. ACOG on the handle, and a bipod up front. IDF did that as well. |
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Posted: 7/26/2022 9:31:39 AM EDT
[#28]
Really good information in this thread, this was a fun read.
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Posted: 7/26/2022 2:33:50 PM EDT
[#29]
What have we here? N1 stock, carbine handguards, removable carry handle, and gooseneck optic mount. I thought I was the only one who attempted this bubba configuration at some poing.
  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 7/26/2022 2:42:18 PM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 7/26/2022 2:55:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DocApocalypse]
[#31]
Royal Norwegian Navy Cpl. Eirik Bolsø, assigned to the Norwegian National Military Representation at the Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers in Europe makes familiarization shoots on a M4 carbine in the Training Support Center Engagement Skills Trainer on Chièvres Air Base, Chièvres, Belgium, April 29, 2015. (U.S. Army photo by Visual Information Specialist Pierre-Etienne Courtejoie/Released)  Attached File Attached File(See comments on similar post below: Simulator and not a real firearm?) |
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Posted: 7/26/2022 3:04:04 PM EDT
[#32]
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Posted: 7/26/2022 3:21:47 PM EDT
[#33]
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Posted: 7/26/2022 3:45:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DocApocalypse]
[#34]
U.S. Army Spc. Shaqueel Tabb, with 39th Strategic Signal Battalion, practices shooting with an M4 carbine on the Engagement Skills Trainer 2 while wearing protective gear for Commander's Prime Time Training, on Chièvres Air Base, Belgium, Aug. 20, 2017. (U.S. Army photo by Visual Information Specialist Pierre-Etienne Courtejoie)  Attached File Attached FileNot sure what an "Engagement Skills Trainer" is. Not a real firearm? I'm noticing the bolt carrier has no forward assist detents, and the barrel is not an M4 profile. The flash hider also appears to have no slots. The cord is strange, too. Same with the pic of the Norwegian above. |
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Posted: 7/26/2022 6:21:34 PM EDT
[#35]
U.S. Navy Master-at-Arms 2nd Class Alice VanParis, second from left, assigned to Strike Fighter Squadron (VFA) 113, participates in a live-fire weapons qualification on the flight deck of the aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson (CVN 70) May 7, 2013, in the Pacific Ocean. The Carl Vinson and the embarked Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 17 were conducting flight operations off the coast of Southern California. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Dean M. Cates/Released) Plain Jane M4, but look at the front pivot pin area. It appears to be an M4 upper on an earlier lower receiver. There are other pics of "M4's" on navy ships with M4 uppers on earlier lowers.  Attached File Attached File |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 7/26/2022 7:37:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Artigas]
[#36]
Quote Historythe curious thing is to still see troops using the carry handle sight as late as 2015 when optics were already the norm. I was issued an M4 with carry handle as late as spring 2021. Marine Corps, active duty. |
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Posted: 7/26/2022 7:52:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: backbencher]
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DocApocalypse: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/271112/BELGIUMM4-1_jpg-2466413.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/271112/BELGIUMM4_jpg-2466414.JPG Not sure what an "Engagement Skills Trainer" is. Not a real firearm? I'm noticing the bolt carrier has no forward assist detents, and the barrel is not an M4 profile. The flash hider also appears to have no slots. The cord is strange, too. Same with the pic of the Norwegian above. EST 2000 is a digital/video/LASER/air pressure powered/mechanical firearm/range/firefight simulator. The hose you see is an air hose. The lowers are usually Bushmasters, I think some Armalites, full auto, real lowers. The air pressure operates the bolt, and the magazine is a dummy, probably w/ just a magnet to trip the electronic sensor. |
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Posted: 7/26/2022 8:49:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SirSqueeboo]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DocApocalypse: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/271112/BELGIUMM4-1_jpg-2466413.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/271112/BELGIUMM4_jpg-2466414.JPG Not sure what an "Engagement Skills Trainer" is. Not a real firearm? I'm noticing the bolt carrier has no forward assist detents, and the barrel is not an M4 profile. The flash hider also appears to have no slots. The cord is strange, too. Same with the pic of the Norwegian above. We called them FATS. Pretty sure the “cord” was an airhose and it was hooked to a compressor. It was pretty much a big arcade game. |
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Posted: 7/27/2022 9:24:10 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DocApocalypse: Plain Jane M4, but look at the front pivot pin area. It appears to be an M4 upper on an earlier lower receiver. There are other pics of "M4's" on navy ships with M4 uppers on earlier lowers. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/271112/M4FRANKENNAVY_jpg-2466583.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/271112/M4FRANKENAVY2_jpg-2466584.JPG |
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Posted: 7/27/2022 9:38:15 AM EDT
[#40]
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WA, USA
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Posted: 7/27/2022 9:46:51 AM EDT
[#41]
So my M4 upper handguard has 6 holes vs 7, I don't see 6s very often. What's the story on those?
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Posted: 7/27/2022 10:09:26 AM EDT
[#42]
Another example of an early lower receiver upgraded with an M4 upper.
PACIFIC OCEAN (Dec. 7, 2019) Gunner’s Mate Seaman Apprentice Iris Bennett, from Toms River, N.J., fires a an M4 carbine rifle for a rifle salute during a Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day ceremony aboard the Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS Russell (DDG 59) Dec. 7, 2019. Russell is underway conducting routine training in the Eastern Pacific Ocean. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Sean Lynch)  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 7/27/2022 2:34:54 PM EDT
[#43]
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Posted: 7/27/2022 2:48:32 PM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 7/27/2022 3:08:49 PM EDT
[#45]
Special Operation Forces from 9 different nations participate in the International Special Training Center's Advanced Close Quarter Battle course the 7th Army Joint Multinational Training Command’s at Grafenwoehr Training Area, Germany, May 22, 2014. The International Special Training Centre in Pfullendorf, Germany provides centralized training for NATO Special Forces and similar units in Europe. (U.S. Army Photo by Visual Information Specialist Gertrud Zach/Released)  Attached File |
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Posted: 7/27/2022 3:15:26 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DocApocalypse: Another example of an early lower receiver upgraded with an M4 upper. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/271112/SAILORM4_jpg-2467150.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/271112/SAILORM4UPCLOSE_jpg-2467151.JPG What are you seeing on those lowers indicating it wasn't a production M4 lower? |
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Posted: 7/27/2022 3:38:37 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: What are you seeing on those lowers indicating it wasn't a production M4 lower? He's talking about the a1 profile |
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Posted: 7/27/2022 3:40:46 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wissota4: He's talking about the a1 profile Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wissota4: Originally Posted By backbencher: What are you seeing on those lowers indicating it wasn't a production M4 lower? He's talking about the a1 profile A1 profile forward lugs? He's got better eyeballs than me. |
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Posted: 7/27/2022 3:43:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: wissota4]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: A1 profile forward lugs? He's got better eyeballs than me. As I was. I thought you quoted his above post with the female shooter. My bad. |
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Posted: 7/27/2022 3:47:47 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wissota4: As I was. I thought you quoted his above post with the female shooter. My bad. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wissota4: Originally Posted By backbencher: A1 profile forward lugs? He's got better eyeballs than me. As I was. I thought you quoted his above post with the female shooter. My bad. This one? Attached FileIt looks like an A1 buffer tube boss, but I can barely make that out. But OP is referencing the forward pivot pin lugs. |
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