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Link Posted: 4/9/2021 9:37:54 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:


In this PDF is a diagram without numbers and not to scale, but shows the gas port pressure spec of the AUG rifle compared to the M4 and the ranges do cross, but ammunition is often suited fo one or the other, but not for both.

https://web.archive.org/web/20150801074633/http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2011smallarms/WednesdayInter12397Evenden.pdf

Then shows F1 ammunition compared to M855 ammunition.

They then developed a special powder to meet the crossover range of the gas port pressures for both the AUG and the M4 and used the powder in their F1A1 ammunition.

Note that they were using a 62 grain penetrator bullet, but was a different shape from NATO specs and the case capacity was smaller than M855 cases.

When they changed the powder, they also switched to NATO spec bullets to match the trajectory of the M4 optics and they increased case capacity to that similar to M855 ammunition.

Australia destroyed their only primer factory in 1999 to make room for the 2000 Olympics and now imports 5.56 and 7.62 primers from CCI in the US and 50 BMG primers from RWS in Germany.
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Way to show your work... I learned something new, thanks...

and Radway Green was the Brit ammo that was under pressured. and had a safety of use message in the early 2000's. To be used for training only.So much for NATO STANAG.

Shit did not run well in my Gun at a class.
Link Posted: 4/9/2021 11:54:46 PM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:




Way to show your work... I learned something new, thanks...

and Radway Green was the Brit ammo that was under pressured. and had a safety of use message in the early 2000's. To be used for training only.So much for NATO STANAG.
https://i.imgur.com/TbCh9Zn.jpg
Shit did not run well in my Gun at a class.
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The circle-cross only indicates "compatibility", not necessarily "interchangeability".

Compatibility - It won't damage your gun.

Interchangeability - You won't see any functional differences.

STANAG 4172 only requires that the port pressure be above 88 MPa, or 12,760 psi, the M855 specification requires that the port pressure not be less than 15,300 psi.  So, it is entirely possible that British or Australian "NATO 5.56mm" have port pressures below the US requirement and have both meet STANAG 4172 requirements.

This indicates "interchangeability".



Link Posted: 4/12/2021 9:41:33 PM EDT
[#3]
I have a cheaper AR upper, but its 4150 CRMOV nitrided barrel with m4 feed ramps and is holding up real with after 1200 rounds so far. (400 steel, 800 brass ish)  I've designed my rifle to make sure it feeds, shoots, and extracts any type of ammo (including steel) reliably. Steel ammo is steel ammo, its going to have failures regardless of the manufacturer, but I wouldnt design a gun around steel case ammo. If you want to shoot 10k rounds of steel just buy an AK, and then you wont really have to worry.

From what I learned is as long as youre not shooting thousands and thousands of rounds of steel consecutively and you clean your gun after every range trip, your barrel will last just as long running any old brass ammo. People will have other opinions on that, but thats from my experience from talking with people who train alot on steel.
Link Posted: 4/12/2021 10:09:12 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I have a cheaper AR upper, but its 4150 CRMOV nitrided barrel with m4 feed ramps and is holding up real with after 1200 rounds so far. (400 steel, 800 brass ish)  I've designed my rifle to make sure it feeds, shoots, and extracts any type of ammo (including steel) reliably. Steel ammo is steel ammo, its going to have failures regardless of the manufacturer, but I wouldnt design a gun around steel case ammo. If you want to shoot 10k rounds of steel just buy an AK, and then you wont really have to worry.

From what I learned is as long as youre not shooting thousands and thousands of rounds of steel consecutively and you clean your gun after every range trip, your barrel will last just as long running any old brass ammo. People will have other opinions on that, but thats from my experience from talking with people who train alot on steel.
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Member @MisterPX had a thread here that says a lot...about cleaning and steel case.


16k of Wolf ammo before issues outweighed the test....


Attachment Attached File


Attachment Attached File



IIRC, the bbl was a Bushy.
Link Posted: 4/12/2021 10:28:28 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The experiments have been done, the math calculated, the science settled.

Shooting steel case ammunition trashes your components. But the cost of brass over steel ammo outweighs barrel cost.

Conclusion: It's cheaper to shoot steel and replace barrels than shoot brass and get 30-40% more barrel life.

Final thoughts: Though it's cheaper to shoot steel and replace barrels, premium loads are not found in steel cases. Seems like a waste of time and money to build a gun for shooting steel unless you're only purpose is mag dumping into the berm.. but that again strikes me as a waste of time and money so. YMMV
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Why not, get both savings and barrel life?
Wolf copper jacketed steel case is a thing... whether it's in stock however...
Link Posted: 4/13/2021 5:03:38 PM EDT
[#6]
i've also had issues with steel because of bad parts and heat. (poorly staked gas key, cassette trigger giving light primer strikes, etc)
Link Posted: 4/13/2021 5:04:20 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Member @MisterPX had a thread here that says a lot...about cleaning and steel case.


16k of Wolf ammo before issues outweighed the test....


https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/416992/ppppp_desktop_px_2-tm-tfb_jpg-1902750.JPG

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/416992/ppppp_desktop_px_1-tm-tfb_jpg-1902752.JPG


IIRC, the bbl was a Bushy.
View Quote



thats the thing, people get really lazy and dont clean their weapon. But they wanna save money and come and complain about malfunctions with their weapon after their gun has been sitting in filth for 3-4 weeks without being shot. Most people who do this run overgassed rifles with wolf or tula .223/5.56 and all that dirty stinky powder those Russians use get inside your gun.

If you build a serious, high end weapon, i guess you can expect to not clean it most of the time and for it to feed basically any ammo it touches. But from most experiences I know with shooting steel case, most malfunctions happen from either poor parts or just not cleaning your rifle. (poor parts as in using a cassette trigger to hit berdan primers and getting light primer strikes, etc)
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