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FL, USA
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Posted: 11/23/2022 5:06:19 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cressida: Saddam, and the Iragis, who were trying to dispose of evidence when we went into their country thought like you do, but I have a racing buddy, an IT guy, that went in with them, and was able to pull up long deleted shit off their computers with his equipment. Pretty sure you’re missing what I said, I literally work and write the server programs that do this, there is no “equipment”. We just got lucky that saddam and his group of idiots didn’t realize there’s a trash folder |
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Posted: 11/23/2022 5:20:44 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By taymag: Pretty sure you're missing what I said, I literally work and write the server programs that do this, there is no "equipment". We just got lucky that saddam and his group of idiots didn't realize there's a trash folder 
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GA, USA
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Posted: 11/24/2022 11:47:27 AM EDT
[#3]
So selling the WOTs at $199 to:
The money raised by the sales of these WOTs will be used to fund litigation in the following order, based on availability of funds and the evaluation on a case by case basis: 1) Litigation by RBT against the DOJ/ATF; 2) and to assist individuals who have been wrongfully accused of a crime for possession of an FRT-15; 3) to seek the return of property (FRT-15s) wrongfully taken from individuals by the ATF. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 11/24/2022 11:56:10 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By taymag: Pretty sure you’re missing what I said, I literally work and write the server programs that do this, there is no “equipment”. We just got lucky that saddam and his group of idiots didn’t realize there’s a trash folder Equipment? You mean like no laptop, no sat up-link? Pretty sure that's called 'equipment'. He was pulling info off reformatted drives, that they thought they had wiped clean, and sending it back to this country in real time, in 1993-4. Almost 30 years ago. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 11/24/2022 4:29:12 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cressida: Equipment? You mean like no laptop, no sat up-link? Pretty sure that's called 'equipment'. He was pulling info off reformatted drives, that they thought they had wiped clean, and sending it back to this country in real time, in 1993-4. Almost 30 years ago. “was able to pull up long deleted shit off their computers with his equipment” — you said he pulled it off “with his equipment” you weren’t talking about their computers you were acting like your friend had special equipment to get it off. And reformatting a hard drive can be done dozens of ways so that means nothing, they could have reformatted the operating system and never even deleted the information portion when formatting. You also said “pulled up long deleted shit”, it’s not long deleted it’s just in the cache of the hard drive lol we were just lucky they (like most terrorists) are dumb as fuck |
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Posted: 11/24/2022 6:56:39 PM EDT
[#6]
The only way to really be sure information can never be retrieved from a hard drive is to destroy it - as in beat it to peices with a hammer, grind it into dust, etc.
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Posted: 11/25/2022 1:09:53 AM EDT
[#7]
What do the legal kind think on buying the wot from them? Lots of disclaim on that page?
Absolutely? Maybe not? I know, FAFT and all that. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 11/25/2022 8:20:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: taymag]
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cycolac: The only way to really be sure information can never be retrieved from a hard drive is to destroy it - as in beat it to peices with a hammer, grind it into dust, etc. It is funny when people try and reformat hard drives and use all these programs when you just need to take 2 screws out to throw it in the ocean lol — but like I said we’re lucky most terrorist and people that do terrible other things are dumb as shit |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 11/25/2022 10:21:02 AM EDT
[#9]
If I didn't already know someone who may have several triggers.
I wouldn't hesitate to get these for that price. Fuck illegal infringement to my rights. I don't associate with people that break the law and that includes government agencies. I can read the constitution clearly it's really not that hard. |
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Posted: 11/25/2022 12:27:28 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By belchfire: If I didn't already know someone who may have several triggers. I wouldn't hesitate to get these for that price. Fuck illegal infringement to my rights. I don't associate with people that break the law and that includes government agencies. I can read the constitution clearly it's really not that hard. 
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Posted: 11/25/2022 3:41:56 PM EDT
[#11]
I may have FO'd
TWICE It's all theory though, I'm too busy in Minecraft |
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Posted: 11/26/2022 10:11:45 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By H4ppyB34r: I may have FO'd TWICE It's all theory though, I'm too busy in Minecraft Condolences on the future loss of your dog.... |
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Posted: 11/26/2022 5:57:06 PM EDT
[#13]
I believe it's unfounded, but we shall see
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GA, USA
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Posted: 11/28/2022 3:05:54 PM EDT
[#14]
Any consensus on how well these work, how reliable, etc? In the pictures, they certainly do not look to be as well built as Rare Breed or the Graves Alamo-15.
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Posted: 11/28/2022 3:18:07 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Malum-Prohibitum: Any consensus on how well these work, how reliable, etc? In the pictures, they certainly do not look to be as well built as Rare Breed or the Graves Alamo-15. |
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Posted: 11/28/2022 3:22:32 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hox: I messed with one that another guy owned before all the ATF shenanigans. It did not get along with my rifle's upper I slung on his lower. Not a user error thing either, we got it to sing on one guy's rifle. Definitely did not like mine, though. Probably some form of timing or bolt bounce issue. Lots of little problems show up when you're trying to cycle 700+ times per minute. Incorrect buffer is the most common problem followed by out of spec parts or tolerance stacking that has no affect on traditional semi auto AR's. |
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Posted: 11/28/2022 3:23:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jaqufrost]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Malum-Prohibitum:Any consensus on how well these work, how reliable, etc? In the pictures, they certainly do not look to be as well built as Rare Breed or the Graves Alamo-15. IME, the WOT has a lighter pull than the FRT. It likes to make a nice brass arc  I haven't put a lot of rounds through one. |
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Posted: 11/29/2022 8:37:37 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jaqufrost: Probably some form of timing or bolt bounce issue. Lots of little problems show up when you're trying to cycle 700+ times per minute. Incorrect buffer is the most common problem followed by out of spec parts or tolerance stacking that has no affect on traditional semi auto AR's. |
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Posted: 11/29/2022 8:44:36 AM EDT
[#19]
Generally you need an H or H2 buffer to combat bolt bounce. Without the heavy buffer the bolt carrier will bounce backwards and the hammer will get dropped in the middle of the bounce. The hammer will then follow the bolt carrier back down but it won't properly strike the firing pin and you'll need to reset the hammer to continue firing.
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UT, USA
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Posted: 11/29/2022 5:00:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: arpistol2002]
[#20]
Quite a few FRTs seized in the last few months...
https://www.forfeiture.gov/pdf/ATF/OfficialNotification.pdf |
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Posted: 11/29/2022 5:38:05 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By arpistol2002: Quite a few FRTs seized in the last few months... https://www.forfeiture.gov/pdf/ATF/OfficialNotification.pdf Golly! |
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Posted: 11/29/2022 5:55:21 PM EDT
[#22]
I've tried 3 uppers with an FRT, pistol gas runs fine, carbine runs fine, rifle I get hammer follow I think? Tried red spring, normal spring, H2 H and carbine buffer.
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Posted: 11/29/2022 5:58:42 PM EDT
[#23]
Poor Scott Lowery
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Posted: 11/29/2022 6:01:17 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By walldj45:I've tried 3 uppers with an FRT, pistol gas runs fine, carbine runs fine, rifle I get hammer follow I think? Tried red spring, normal spring, H2 H and carbine buffer. It may be something else causing a timing issue. BCG, barrel, and upper fitment can all affect when the trigger is allowed to be pulled again. I would swap the BCG and use the H2 buffer, then try again. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 12/6/2022 7:42:37 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jaqufrost: Poor Scott Lowery Who is this? |
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Posted: 12/6/2022 8:27:03 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Malum-Prohibitum: Who is this? If you read the ATF confiscation list above they took a bunch of nice triggers from him. |
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Posted: 12/10/2022 10:06:30 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By arpistol2002: Quite a few FRTs seized in the last few months... https://www.forfeiture.gov/pdf/ATF/OfficialNotification.pdf Never looked at any of those links until now. Wow, they just go out and say it. "FRT machinegun" Only looked over the first couple pages. But every one of them they called the triggers by themselves "machineguns" So are these people who are on this list also arrested and charged with a felony? Or are they just taking them and slapping them on the wrist? |
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Posted: 12/10/2022 11:25:08 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: Never looked at any of those links until now. Wow, they just go out and say it. "FRT machinegun" Only looked over the first couple pages. But every one of them they called the triggers by themselves "machineguns" So are these people who are on this list also arrested and charged with a felony? Or are they just taking them and slapping them on the wrist? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: Originally Posted By arpistol2002: Quite a few FRTs seized in the last few months... https://www.forfeiture.gov/pdf/ATF/OfficialNotification.pdf Never looked at any of those links until now. Wow, they just go out and say it. "FRT machinegun" Only looked over the first couple pages. But every one of them they called the triggers by themselves "machineguns" So are these people who are on this list also arrested and charged with a felony? Or are they just taking them and slapping them on the wrist? Not sure I've mentioned it but I find it interesting the triggers alone are classified as such. But I guess the same goes for the auto sears. THEY are the machine gun, NOT the gun they are loaded into. Yet how many JBT would happily give up their current issued weapons for a bare trigger? And could you get a bare trigger to fire rounds? To your questions, I'm curious about that. And in addition, have we seen ANY evidence of them going after people that bought directly from RBT and/or dealers that bought directly from RBT and then sold them in their shop(s) or is it mostly from the one gunbroker guy they pinched? |
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Posted: 12/10/2022 2:05:24 PM EDT
[#29]
He should just make the CAD an open source document already, post schematics so any monkey with either a CNC or hand files and extra time can make their own from bar stock.
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Posted: 12/10/2022 2:23:50 PM EDT
[#30]
Excuse this question - is the WOT the same as the FRT?
same unit - different name Different unit - same affect or ? ? ? Bigger_Hammer 
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/10/2022 3:21:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Cressida]
[#31]
WOT was made out of country, and looks to have a die cast body.
FRT is made in country, (Fargo, North Dakota), and machined (CNC) body. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/10/2022 3:28:41 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FrankW134: He should just make the CAD an open source document already, post schematics so any monkey with either a CNC or hand files and extra time can make their own from bar stock. Hard to duplicate the hardened steel parts, like the hammer at home. The body would be simple with a mill, and all you would need is a sample to take dimensions from. |
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Posted: 12/10/2022 4:50:17 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bigger_Hammer: Excuse this question - is the WOT the same as the FRT? same unit - different name Different unit - same affect or ? ? ? Bigger_Hammer They are very similar. The WOT is a copy that was built outside the US and imported by Big Daddy Unlimited. Functionally they behave the same. Rare Breed sued Big Daddy for patent infringement. Rare Breed appears to have won and got all the WOT's as part of their settlement. |
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Posted: 12/11/2022 10:26:06 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Emt1581: Not sure I've mentioned it but I find it interesting the triggers alone are classified as such. But I guess the same goes for the auto sears. THEY are the machine gun, NOT the gun they are loaded into. Yet how many JBT would happily give up their current issued weapons for a bare trigger? And could you get a bare trigger to fire rounds? To your questions, I'm curious about that. And in addition, have we seen ANY evidence of them going after people that bought directly from RBT and/or dealers that bought directly from RBT and then sold them in their shop(s) or is it mostly from the one gunbroker guy they pinched? Makes me wonder, if they are not arresting these people or charging them, and just taking away the triggers, if they are getting put on a "list" for future prosecution. |
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Posted: 12/11/2022 12:12:34 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: Makes me wonder, if they are not arresting these people or charging them, and just taking away the triggers, if they are getting put on a "list" for future prosecution. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 12/11/2022 12:17:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Malum-Prohibitum]
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cressida: WOT was made out of country, and looks to have a die cast body. FRT is made in country, (Fargo, North Dakota), and machined (CNC) body. Can you compare the Alamo-15 by Graves in the same manner? Why did Rare Breed not go after the Alamo 15 like it did the WOT? Did it not violate Rare Breed's patent? |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 12/11/2022 12:24:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Malum-Prohibitum]
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jaqufrost: They don't have enough prosecutors to go after everyone. IMO, they're also worried about losing. I doubt they go after normal people, they'll just threaten prosecution and confiscate them. I have an additional thought, which I will share below, but first I wanted to observe that I sincerely doubt it is a lack of prosecutors. Had they captured you or me with 10,000 unregistered machine guns, they would definitely prosecute. That is potential infinity prison time . . . And yet they caught a Rare Breed person, at gunpoint, lay on the asphalt, with 10,000 Rare Breed triggers. I have to think it is a fear that the lenity standard in criminal prosecutions would be used against them. Better from their vantage point to have a civil case where the standard is not so stringent and get a friendly judge to watch the video and hold, "Oh, yeah, that looks like a machine gun to me." This is the same route that the ATF took, successfully, with bump stocks. They dismissed criminal actions while the .gov defended all the lawsuits, and now it is a closed door. Bump stocks are machine guns. Why change a strategy that wins? In addition, they are focusing on getting the same result through different means. Go after and pressure the FFLs and vendors. Pressure civilians when you can locate them and find them. Pretty soon these triggers are basically nonexistent. Then, when the civil process is done and federal judges are all finished declaring these triggers machine guns, the ATF can more safely prosecute the few who still possess them and are stupid or unlucky enough to get caught. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 12/20/2022 4:31:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Malum-Prohibitum]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Malum-Prohibitum: Can you compare the Alamo-15 by Graves in the same manner? Why did Rare Breed not go after the Alamo 15 like it did the WOT? Did it not violate Rare Breed's patent? Apparently they did, and they now have orders against the company and Allen Graves, individually, with millions in damages (almost $4 million). Allen Graves allowed the case against him to go to a default judgment. https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/43794054/Rare_Breed_Triggers,_LLC_et_al_v_Graves_et_al |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 12/20/2022 4:38:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Malum-Prohibitum]
[#39]
So has Rare Breed refiled in Florida, or what? It's been 6 weeks since the motion to dismiss for venue was granted.
https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/44559554/Rare_Breed_Triggers,_LLC_v_Garland_et_al |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 12/20/2022 4:41:48 PM EDT
[#40]
 Breaking: Judge Throws Out Rare Breed Triggers' Lawsuit |
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Posted: 12/20/2022 4:42:56 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryThat was over a month ago... |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 12/23/2022 3:38:07 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jtb33: That was over a month ago... That's right. So has ANYTHING happened since then? |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 12/24/2022 10:37:40 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Malum-Prohibitum: Can you compare the Alamo-15 by Graves in the same manner? Why did Rare Breed not go after the Alamo 15 like it did the WOT? Did it not violate Rare Breed's patent? The Alama 15 is built like a tank. I have one on a PWS 7.XX" piston upper. Runs like a sewing machine with a Geissele H3 Super 42 with and without my Sandman S. Gonna try to get a Shrike for it this upcoming year. Buddy just picked up one of these lawsuit WOT for a Micro 5.56 he's planning on. Eager to compare the two. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 12/25/2022 3:09:28 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Stealthy_Waffle: The Alama 15 is built like a tank. I have one on a PWS 7.XX" piston upper. Runs like a sewing machine with a Geissele H3 Super 42 with and without my Sandman S. Gonna try to get a Shrike for it this upcoming year. Buddy just picked up one of these lawsuit WOT for a Micro 5.56 he's planning on. Eager to compare the two. Thanks for the review of the Alamo 15, Stealthy_Waffle |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 12/25/2022 6:31:21 PM EDT
[#45]
So I installed a Graves Alamo-15 in my FN-15. Nothing has been modified on my FN rifle. The gun now shoots one round and stops. I have to cycle the blot manually, ejecting a loaded cartridge, and then I can shoot again, once, and must manually cycle the gun again, ejecting a loaded round.
The loaded rounds have a very light primer strike. When empty, I pull the trigger and keep my finger on it as I cycle the bolt manually. I feel it physically reset as I cycle it. So why is it not working when I am actually shooting it? The FN15 Tac 3 has an "H buffer" - the package says an H-2 or heavier buffer is needed. I can't find anything about an "H" buffer, just H1, H2, H3 . . . ah, wait, it look like H is H1. So I will order an H2. Should this correct the light primer strike issue and get my FN15 operating correctly with the Graves Alamo-15? Anybody with any insight please chime in. Merry Christmas! |
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Posted: 12/25/2022 6:33:59 PM EDT
[#46]
It may fix it if you're experiencing bolt bounce.
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GA, USA
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Posted: 12/25/2022 7:20:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Malum-Prohibitum]
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jaqufrost: It may fix it if you're experiencing bolt bounce. Thank you for responding! Does that sound like what I described? Do you recommend H2 or H3? Should I get both and try each one? Anything else I should look at? |
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Posted: 12/25/2022 7:45:58 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Malum-Prohibitum: Thank you for responding! Does that sound like what I described? Do you recommend H2 or H3? Should I get both and try each one? Anything else I should look at? Yes, your symptoms sound like possible bolt bounce. If you have an H3, you can make an H2. I normally don't need an H3 to run, most guns run fine with an H or H2. I keep all three common buffers available so it's easy to swap them out and eleminate issues if they pop up. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 12/25/2022 7:49:57 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jaqufrost: Yes, your symptoms sound like possible bolt bounce. If you have an H3, you can make an H2. I normally don't need an H3 to run, most guns run fine with an H or H2. I keep all three common buffers available so it's easy to swap them out and eleminate issues if they pop up. Thanks, ordering a BCM H2 right now. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 12/27/2022 9:53:47 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Malum-Prohibitum: Thanks, ordering a BCM H2 right now. Unfortunate you are having issues. Hopefully that fixes the issue. I haven't tried any other upper other than the piston one yet. I didn't have any sort of break-in or anything that was needed. |
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