Look at the rimfire section, there has been an ongoing discussion there (not very successful).

Interesting

Hopefully they wrap into the filing that restrictive gun laws in America are unconstitutional.

I called GOA yesterday and left a message on one of the top guys voicemail indicating the process to eradicate gun laws in America. It can be done

Never heard back. Maybe this meeting Delmonico was talking about is why I didn’t hear back, dude was busy, maybe

What I need is a smooth 2 lb trigger pull!

Finally got time to test my Graves trigger at the range. Installed in one of my LWRCs with all factory spring and buffer H2. Ran perfect thru about 100 rds. Shot a mixture of WW55grn, Fed-55M193 and PMC62grn NO FTF, etc. Shot all perfect while using various mags! Held rifle in normal fashion and pressed on trigger ( not too hard) and boom boom boom!! Very pleased so far

I’m officially done trying to get the Rare Breed to run. Wasted a lot of ammo along the way but not as much as I would have if it actually worked I guess. My goal was to try to get it to run on a 14.5” unsuppressed. The only combo that worked half ass was on a Hodge barrel w/ my small CQB KAC suppressor.

Ok, so it likes gas.

Built a new upper on a Noveske barrel with a huge .083 - .084 gas port. Surely that would do it? Nope. It’s basically 3 round burst, then dead trigger with round in the chamber. While I was attempting to zero it I was able to get quite a few single shots off, without jamming the trigger or inducing a malfunction.

Now to decide on the Graves or not and go down another rabbit hole.

What buffer were you using?
ETA: What main spring?

I’ve tried all of them. Most recently with the big hole Noveske barrel, H2 and carbine spring.

I would grab a Sprinco red spring, put the H2 buffer in, lube the trigger, locking bar and bottom of the bcg liberally and try one more time.

Does it function correctly by hand? You may have a timing issue where the locking bar is being released to early.

I had also tried a Sprinco white/red and a blue.
It does function by hand perfectly. I’ve been jacking with this trigger for about 6 months. Initially the locking bar was getting hit way too soon. I measured a bunch of carriers and even picked a Guinea pig carrier and started sanding it down and polishing it. Got it to where it barely closes on the lower without pulling the charging handle back.

At this point, I feel like I’ve tried everything…even threw it in a Spikes lower. I think something is just off with this particular trigger.

I videoed my range session this morning. I definitely got 3 different single shots off, followed by 2-3 round burst. No issues. Then when I tried it give it more, it never would go more than 6 rounds. It would take 4-5 round fine, then choke.

Is the failure always a dead hammer against the firing pin?
ETA: If it's always a dead trigger, try adding this firing pin. It will extend your timing window by .010. I used to use this trick on my BumpSAW to minimize cycling hangups.
http://www.redxarms.com/product-p/5061.htm

Alpha0815-
You can chalk this up as a stupid question, but are you running 223 ammo or 556 ammo?
I’ve seen them run the way you describe with 223 ammo and run like a top with 556 ammo.

This situation is just too weird for me.
So FRT's are declared MG's by the AFT, and the AFT tells Rare Breed to stop selling them.

Rare Breed tells the AFT to pound sand.

The AFT sends letters to FFL's and such that FRT's are MG's...maybe.

How can there be such a discrepancy between the law the the AFT?

I would think that if the AFT had a case, everyone at Rare Breed (and everyone posting pics of their FRT's) would be in jail by now.

But since no one is in jail, and you can go to Rare Breed's site and buy one, it would lead one to believe that they are NOT machine guns (which is what the law says as well).....and if that is the case, why is the AFT saying they are MG's?  

Is all of this "over" and it just fizzles out where Rare Breed does not actually "win" (no precedent is set), but they don't lose...which is a win in a backwards way?

Scare tactics.

It's always been a dead trigger, against the firing pin. I just can't wrap my head around it happening every 4-6 rounds.


Not a stupid question, but I only run 5.56 Federal / Winchester XM193.

@BattleGear

When you close the upper, do you have to pull the charging handle back slightly? Or no interference with the roller tech?

My buddy has to do this with his windham. He has the same problems.

Can you go to the site and buy one?  They have not been available (Out of Stock) for a couple weeks.

And then there is this:  
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/rare-breed-triggers-cancels-customers-orders-after-atf-raided-vendor

And its still Out of Stock

But they're coming out with a 3rd position version any day now!

...or so they said several months ago.  

The email in that article doesn't make sense to me...

Why would RareBreed(RB),the Manufacturer, have a shipping hiccup because a Vendor was supposedly raided?  RB would be shipping directly to the customer if the customer ordered directly from RB.

If the customer ordered from the Vendor which was supposedly raided, then why would the customer contact RB or receive a refund from RB?

Which Vendor was raided on 3/25, I thought most of the Vendor raids garnered attention here and I don't recall seeing one at that date (may have missed it)?

Not sure how that's confusing.  RB doesn't make them in-house - at most, they assemble them in-house.  The parts are all made by other manufacturers and sent to RB.  If a manufacturer had parts for the trigger assembly taken, then RB won't have all the parts to assemble a complete trigger.

It sounds like the ATF is cutting off RB’s supply chain and they raided one of their parts vendors…not a retail vendor.

If this is true, this is the first I’ve heard of it and a game changer for sure.

To alpha0815.....Nope everything was just fine. Checked all clearance just after installing and hand cycled all went well. The rifle is all factory including H2 Buffy.
When shot I was amazed how smooth it ran and by the way it is a piston system. It took very little cleaning also😎! Thanks for your question😁!

WOT video, from April 14 but doesn't seem to have been posted yet.

I see what you're saying; I read the email thinking it was referring to a retail vendor NOT a supply vendor.


Having said that, I'm still surprised we hadn't heard about an ATF raid on the supply vendor...

The ATF would have to claim that the supply vendor was manufacturing what they framed as a MG part.  

Is a company required to get a special license to manufacture MG sears?

What’s telling is .GOV is afraid of RB in court. They are attempting to shut them down by attacking those around them.

They don’t want to have a judge decided RB’s claim of single pull = semi automatic.

So how long until they go after Graves?

Surprised to not see more reviews of them here now that the prices seem to have settled around the cost of the Rare Breed.

This is fun. Off Tommy triggers website. Ordered one to check out how it worked, and flipped it for a nice profit, glad I don't have a dog. Please note the all caps are original, I didn't boomertype this.


https://tommytriggers.com
"I RECIEVED AN E-MAIL FROM MY WEBSITE SERVER THIS MORNING THAT ALL THE ORDERS
ON THE WEBSITE WERE DOWNLOADED AND I DID NOT REQUEST THIS. WITH THAT SAID I
STRONGLY RECOMMEND THAT ANYONE THAT PURCHASED AN FRT-15-3MD TRIGGER
PURCHASE THE PROPRIETARY SAFETY 10 SAFETY SELECTOR !!!!
THE SAFETY 10 SELECTOR WILL MAKE THE TRIGGER COMPLIANT AS TO THE NEW RULES
SET BY THE ATF. THE SAFETY WILL MAKE THE TRIGGER RESET EACH TIME YOU PULL THE
TRIGGER. THE TRIGGER WILL HAVE ONLY THE SAFE MODE AND SEMI SINGLE SHOT
THE TRIGGER WILL NO LONGER HAVE THE FRT MODE THEREFORE THE ATF CAN NOT
CALL THE TRIGGER A "MACHINE GUN" . IF YOU HAVE ALREADY SOLD YOUR TRIGGER AT
YOUR LOCAL GUN SHOW YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IT.
REMEMBER BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING"

Hmm, needs better server security? Doesn’t make much sense to me but wouldn’t be surprised.

It’s been eerie quite lately.

Even though it’s not a machinegun because of its unique function, maybe you could  try using the timing process for an dias to time it.

Sounds like you are just on the edge of it being timed too fast / early release. Since it drops on a dead trigger, hammer follow sometimes.

Process will be a little different since you will have to pull the trigger or rubber band the trigger  rather than tying the trigger back like you would to to time a dias.

Adjustment would be the bolt contact area like you have already been messing with using different bolts and modifying the one bolt

If you have any “float” that will have to be addressed for consistency.

From quarterbore
http://quarterbore.com/nfa/dias.html

Timing a DIAS:

The DIAS must be timed with each change of upper or lower.  To check the timing is easy, to adjust the timing is hard. With a M16 or AR15 with M16 parts and the DIAS in place...

Remove any magazine and ammo from the gun.
Set the selector on the full auto position.
Drop the hammer with the trigger (you did check to see the chamber was empty right?)
Now you need your timing gages ( The cheapest is drill shanks at the required dimensions. I use three, one early timing gage .12 dia, one correctly timed gage .10 dia, and one late timed gage .08 dia.)
Secure the trigger in the fired condition (rearward) with wire. Using the charging handle pull the bolt carrier all the way to the rear but do not let it go, slowly lower the carrier towards the front until you have a 1/2" gap left between the carrier and barrel extension.
Insert the early timed gage in between the colt carrier and the barrel extension (not the bolt head) and slowly lower the bolt carrier with the charging handle. If the auto sear releases then your gun is out of time (early) and will most likely give you light primer hits. If not go to step 7.
Slightly retract the charging handle and remove the early gage and insert the late gage. Slowly lower the carrier until the carrier rest on the gage that is between the bolt carrier and the barrel extension. The hammer should have dropped, if it did not the gun is out of time (late) and will most likely either not release the hammer or act sluggish and have a slow cyclic rate. If it dropped go to step 8.
Pull back on the charging handle and recock the gun while removing the late gage. slowly lower the bolt carrier with the "go" or correctly timed gage until the bolt carrier rest on the gage that is against the barrel extension. The hammer might release or might not.
This same system could be used to check the timing of a M-16 or RR AR-15 using a traditional auto sear as well.  The key is to set the timing so the hammer falls with the 0.10 diameter gage but not the early gage.  Assuming that the hammer was released on this gage but not the early gage the gun is timed.

Now that you have determined the timing of the gun you must adjust it. the DIAS should NOT be loose in the gun since it can shift and effect your timing. The easiest way to secure it in the gun is to A) drill a hole and tap it in the auto sear body so you
can clamp it to the upper lug and adjust the timing with shims on the front side or 2) You can glue plastic shims to the upper lug with JB weld so the DIAS is timed to each upper by the shims on that lug. Moving the sear forward in the gun makes the timing later (therefore correcting an early timed sear) and rearward makes the timing earlier (correcting a late timed sear).

@01ZULU

How?

To not muddy up this thread

PM sent

 They are scared. The minute they aren’t you know a Hawaiian judge is involved.
 The ATF knows the RB is legal and they just can’t stand it.
The trigger is getting pulled by a human finger each shot. However fast it may be is irrelevant and that is within the law.   A law that mind you should not even be on the books.  


     Talk about Karen taking her ball and going home because someone is faster.

My triggers identify as Free Range Triggers. They should be ok. Being woke and all.

@jaqufrost

Are you sure that firing pin will fit/work in a 5.56 AR?

It says it's for 7.62 and/or 5.45.

Thanks.

Yes. It's used in 7.62x39 and 5.45 guns because they need a deeper primer strike to ensure ignition. I use one in my M16 so I can run a bunch of Russian .223 I bought really cheap because they loaded the batch with 5.45 primers. Normal guns have constant failures without the extended pin.

I'm master-debating on purchasing a Graves to try...

Maybe I'll give the AK firing pin a try though...

I wish Graves was 3 position.

I should have ordered some of the Tommy Trigger conversions while they were available.

Agreed. I just don’t think the 3 position is realistic at this point.

Sounds like you get some bolt bounce.  Not enough to prevent ignition all of the time but only some of the time.

When trying to tune for the original Franklin Binary trigger I actually had to make up a "deadblow" buffer.  I took the weights out of a buffer and replaced it with lead shot.  No more bolt bounce.  Worth a try maybe?

And another piece of advice, make sure you are not simply squeezing the trigger too hard.  I keep running into people at the range convinced their trigger won't run then I shoot their gun and it runs fine as long as the trigger wasn't being squeezed too hard.  Dead trigger and loaded round is bolt bounce and needs a heavier buffer.

New add-on to help FRTs to run better:
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/931836762

Yeah I wish that was my problem but it’s not.

I’m not squeezing it too hard. I was able to get single shots off about 75% of the time.

It says, “Designed for mounting on standard (flat) mil spec trigger guards. Will not work with any other design.”

That really cuts down the customer base considering how many people change their trigger guards.

WOW!  That needs to be belt fed, and you need another man helping load!  It's like an MG-42 (but in 5.56 instead of 8mm).  

So by gutting the carbine buffer (which is H2, right?) you made it run faster?  Would it slow down with a standard H2 weight?  I am just trying to figure out how this works.  Graves recommends an H2.  My gun has the standard H buffer, so I was going to replace it, but maybe it will work, just faster?  I have not tried it out yet (obviously).

Brownells lightweight carrier is 8.2oz (about 4oz lighter than M16).  A gutted buffer has no sliding weights, so it's probably around 1oz instead of 2.9oz.

If you gut a carrier without using a lightweight carrier it will probably have bolt bounce problems.

Ah, that fills in a lot of info I did not know.  Thanks.