User Panel
Originally Posted By AZgunner: So, out of the box, this thing is basically plagued with issues and has a very short service life? Combine that with its Safe/FRT setup, instead of Safe/Semi/FRT, and this seems like a complete turd in comparison to binary triggers. View Quote Glass half full take: With not too much effort, you can reliably get it to do one thing very well. It does that one thing better than all of the competition. In fact, it does that one thing with the same ROF as the real thing. |
|
There are no coincidences
|
Got a 16 inch carbine running with an FRT today using a H3 5.4 oz buffer and a XP recoil spring (red) on brass cased ammo (probably AE 223).
Very finicky with steel case, multiple stuck cases with one requiring a freezer, hammer and cleaning rod. Ran perfect on the brass cased ammo. Have a 4.6 oz buffer enroute to try the cheaper, underpowered steel case. Attached File |
|
|
So, out of the box, this thing is basically plagued with issues and has a very short service life? Combine that with its Safe/FRT setup, instead of Safe/Semi/FRT, and this seems like a complete turd in comparison to binary triggers. View Quote Uh, no. Opinionated much? Enjoy your binary trigger. Not even in the same class if you're looking for a ROF equal to full auto. I can't tell the difference between mine and my Colt M16A2. Would I like a third position? Sure! But hardly a deal killer. I don't use my AR for precision shooting or hunting. As far as the buffers...? Unfortunately H3 carbine buffers are hard to find right now. Not sure why ANY buffers would be; it's not like they're that complex to make? If someone has a source for Colt H3s please do pass it along! I'm slightly curious as I can't find anyone that will at least hazard an educated guess why it will or won't run any better in my gun? H1 runs like a champ. H2 stops after every shot. MY guess is that an even HEAVIER buffer will likely not even fire? LOL Anyone willing to take a stab? |
|
|
Originally Posted By Jack007: Uh, no. Opinionated much? Enjoy your binary trigger. Not even in the same class if you're looking for a ROF equal to full auto. I can't tell the difference between mine and my Colt M16A2. Would I like a third position? Sure! But hardly a deal killer. I don't use my AR for precision shooting or hunting. As far as the buffers...? Unfortunately H3 carbine buffers are hard to find right now. Not sure why ANY buffers would be; it's not like they're that complex to make? If someone has a source for Colt H3s please do pass it along! I'm slightly curious as I can't find anyone that will at least hazard an educated guess why it will or won't run any better in my gun? H1 runs like a champ. H2 stops after every shot. MY guess is that an even HEAVIER buffer will likely not even fire? LOL Anyone willing to take a stab? View Quote I'm assuming that the heavier buffers need heavier springs to function right. I haven't tried so I guess that's my shot? I couldn't really figure out why some of the others buffers I used didn't work like the Cozad 3oz, as it is the same weight as a carbine but the carbine buffer ran flawlessly. However, it does have a piston design with anti bounce weights inside Only thing I can thing of is that with the springs I used, the extra piston design caused the buffer to go back into battery with more force than the buffer weights and spring could allow. Maybe I should attempt a heavier spring. Only problem I can see with that is it can cause short stroking on mid-lengths that are aren't gassed enough. |
|
|
I'm not complaining that my totally stock out of the box Colt 6920 runs 100% without five minutes of tinkering. I think it's my nature to experiment.
If I understand you correctly, the next heavier buffer will of course run worse? The only other direction to go would be the spring? If that's the case, I may just leave well enough alone. I can't find any H3s anyway. |
|
|
After seeing a video of the "Reset bar" setup it is going to fail. It's just going to, I'm not surprised that they're failing in 100rnds. I'll be surprised if they make it to 200. That spring set up is under thought and poorly designed. It's likely a well made trash product. They need to completely redesign that forced reset mechanism. I work with small springs on a daily basis. Some sort of leaf or torsion spring would be a massive improvement. 0/10 Complete waste of money. Run from this product.
|
|
|
Originally Posted By ARMrover: After seeing a video of the "Reset bar" setup it is going to fail. It's just going to, I'm not surprised that they're failing in 100rnds. I'll be surprised if they make it to 200. That spring set up is under thought and poorly designed. It's likely a well made trash product. They need to completely redesign that forced reset mechanism. I work with small springs on a daily basis. Some sort of leaf or torsion spring would be a massive improvement. 0/10 Complete waste of money. Run from this product. View Quote Mine made it to 250 on the first outting, and looks just fine. Color yourself surprised |
|
Have Bill call me - the45man
Pack LaRue Dillo #10 [SS17] I like oranges. |
Originally Posted By socommatthews: Mine made it to 250 on the first outting, and looks just fine. Color yourself surprised View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By socommatthews: Originally Posted By ARMrover: After seeing a video of the "Reset bar" setup it is going to fail. It's just going to, I'm not surprised that they're failing in 100rnds. I'll be surprised if they make it to 200. That spring set up is under thought and poorly designed. It's likely a well made trash product. They need to completely redesign that forced reset mechanism. I work with small springs on a daily basis. Some sort of leaf or torsion spring would be a massive improvement. 0/10 Complete waste of money. Run from this product. Mine made it to 250 on the first outting, and looks just fine. Color yourself surprised I just went over 1,500 rounds since installing mine with no issues whatsoever. |
|
|
Originally Posted By NineMMAR15: Damn it! Now I want a Fight-lite Upper! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnSZ4BFTzeM View Quote |
|
|
Originally Posted By Jack007: Uh, no. Opinionated much? Enjoy your binary trigger. Not even in the same class if you're looking for a ROF equal to full auto. I can't tell the difference between mine and my Colt M16A2. Would I like a third position? Sure! But hardly a deal killer. I don't use my AR for precision shooting or hunting. As far as the buffers...? Unfortunately H3 carbine buffers are hard to find right now. Not sure why ANY buffers would be; it's not like they're that complex to make? If someone has a source for Colt H3s please do pass it along! I'm slightly curious as I can't find anyone that will at least hazard an educated guess why it will or won't run any better in my gun? H1 runs like a champ. H2 stops after every shot. MY guess is that an even HEAVIER buffer will likely not even fire? LOL Anyone willing to take a stab? View Quote |
|
|
I'm up to 300 rounds no issues other than some peening. I guess the fix here is a little WECSOG dremel action? I wonder if RBT will offer replacement levers at some point?
Attached File |
|
|
Originally Posted By JohnSmith6073: I'm up to 300 rounds no issues other than some peening. I guess the fix here is a little WECSOG dremel action? I wonder if RBT will offer replacement levers at some point? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/274809/PXL_20210320_231658829_MP_jpg-1873719.JPG View Quote According to them, this is normal. Some people don't see the wear because their carrier m16 cut is further back than forward. I'm assuming most of the people who have the spring issue have a more "forward" m16 carrier cut. |
|
|
Originally Posted By ahrion: According to them, this is normal. Some people don't see the wear because their carrier m16 cut is further back than forward. I'm assuming most of the people who have the spring issue have a more "forward" m16 carrier cut. View Quote Interesting, I did not know that M16 cuts were slightly different, makes me wonder how the timing tripping the auto sear would be off in a real M16. |
|
|
Originally Posted By JohnSmith6073: I'm up to 300 rounds no issues other than some peening. I guess the fix here is a little WECSOG dremel action? I wonder if RBT will offer replacement levers at some point? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/274809/PXL_20210320_231658829_MP_jpg-1873719.JPG View Quote It is an easy enough part to copy if they won;t offer support for it. |
|
|
Originally Posted By OTDR: Interesting, I did not know that M16 cuts were slightly different, makes me wonder how the timing tripping the auto sear would be off in a real M16. View Quote I mean you're talking millimeters or less, but a sear and sear pin/spring work more efficiently than this setup because it have a torsion spring among other well thought out differences. |
|
|
Meh, I sold mine sticking to my transferable Mac.
|
|
"I am not an Operator but I play one on AR15.com"
|
Originally Posted By ahrion: I mean you're talking millimeters or less, but a sear and sear pin/spring work more efficiently than this setup because it have a torsion spring among other well thought out differences. View Quote IMO, they should have designed it so it can't pivot far enough forward to pinch the spring. |
|
|
Originally Posted By ahrion: According to them, this is normal. Some people don't see the wear because their carrier m16 cut is further back than forward. I'm assuming most of the people who have the spring issue have a more "forward" m16 carrier cut. View Quote The PSA carrier in the shop gun we were dicking around with didn't cause any marks on the safety latch so far. I'll measure the carrier at some point. H2 works well, H1 goes brrrt even better. Didn't try an H3 yet. |
|
Mil-Spec: The best you can get for the lowest amount of money possible.
|
Rare Breed FRT15 trigger back in stock at the time of this post!
https://www.rarebreedtriggers.com/product/frt-15/ |
|
|
The Stars at Night are Big & Bright clap*clap*clap
TX, USA
|
|
|
In stock At BDU again.
|
|
|
'This Guy Is Such a Total Pussy --- It's Stunning' - Lt. Col. Ralph Peters
|
Mulling over buying a second though I don't really want too. Just so I can have a spare part one. Really wish someone with the skill would make some spare bars for it or rare breed do it themselves.
|
|
|
Really wish someone with the skill would make some spare bars for it or rare breed do it themselves. View Quote Why? |
|
|
Originally Posted By Jack007: Why? View Quote Edit ain't gonna lie I am nervous of screwing up the cut and turning it into a $400 brick and dont wanna buy another cause that money just went to a Chiappa Rhino revolver and a PTR-9CT, gotta get it while price was still normal with how Biden ran his mouth on gun control thanks to the Colorado shooting. |
|
|
Originally Posted By StuartBoyer: In case those of us modding them for reliability screw up the dremel cut on the bar or if they receive too much wear from slightly longer cut M16 profile BCGs which are cutting into the top of the bar. Would rather have a spare than modify a bolt if needed after the reliability mod depending on which of my 20 uppers I use this gives me some leeway in case. Got two of everything I need to do ahrion's mod but I would like to try one like yours if possible that keeps the spring stock, just gotta find the right screw as I dont wanna buy a pack of 100 and I have no home depot around and maybe add an o-ring as backup if I can figure out the size for the stock spring. Edit ain't gonna lie I am nervous of screwing up the cut and turning it into a $400 brick and dont wanna buy another cause that money just went to a Chiappa Rhino revolver and a PTR-9CT, gotta get it while price was still normal with how Biden ran his mouth on gun control thanks to the Colorado shooting. View Quote I don't see a reason to cut the bar to accommodate differences in m16 carriers. There is already a lot of leeway when the locking bar fully compresses the spring. If you have a vise, put the locking bar in the vice for the bevel mod. Only way you can mess up is if you're sloppy, fast, and have cerebral palsy. |
|
|
Originally Posted By ahrion: I don't see a reason to cut the bar to accommodate differences in m16 carriers. There is already a lot of leeway when the locking bar fully compresses the spring. If you have a vise, put the locking bar in the vice for the bevel mod. Only way you can mess up is if you're sloppy, fast, and have cerebral palsy. View Quote Yeah I still figure to do the mod but have seen two different versions of the cut. Some say bevel it at an angle towards the hole and some just do a crescent cut with no bevel. I assume the bevel with crescent is correct and wish the youtube videos could focus the camera enough to show a better look at the angle, after all even going slow so as not to mess up I could go to steep or too shallow on the angle. A drawing attached in the video would have been a good idea as the glare on the part makes it hard to see too even in photos. I have no problems cutting and working on ARs but this trigger thing is getting me nervous for some reason. Even the ITF binary trigger didn't bother me working on it but its parts are easy to obtain if messed up. I can see the cuts you made in your mod pretty good but wasn't yours specifically cut for your spring change? I wanna try the regular cut and spring first and add a guide rod and oring if I can find one then if that still has issues do your mod with the bolt catch spring and parts. Wanna work my way through it and try to stay stock as possible in case further development or official updated parts ever get released. |
|
|
I wanted to update everyone on the trigger spring replacements from McMaster. I have listed them below from highest spring tension to least. We already know the current trigger spring yields about 2 lbs - 2.5ish lbs pull weight and is NOT ground on each end of the trigger spring. (1) yields about 3 lbs 12 oz - 3 lbs 14 oz pull weight and is the smaller OD/ID of all the springs I tested. (2) is about 2 lbs 10 oz average, which is only slightly more than the stock spring. (3) I didn't even test because it was less tension as is than the stock spring. It's important to note that each of these spring are slightly longer than the stock spring and all of these springs are ground on the ends. It's also important to note that the infamous "click" when the trigger resets is MUCH more noticeable with (1) & (2) because of the "hair" longer spring and the increase in trigger spring tension. I am confident (1) will serve me much better and will work much better than the stock configuration, as right around 3.65 lbs - 3.85 lbs is over a pound of pull weight than the stock trigger AND the spring is slightly longer to help that reset. I will likely run this setup moving forward.
1. 2022N117 - Mil. Spec. Compression Springs, 0.25" Long, 0.18" OD, 0.128" ID, 57.8 Ibs/inch Spring Rate 2. 9657K608 - Compression Spring, 0.25" Long, 0.210" OD, 0.158" ID, 41 lbs/inch Spring Rate 3. 9657K607 - Compression Spring, 0.25" Long, 0.210" OD, 0.166" ID, 21.5 lbs/inch Spring Rate You're probably wondering why someone would change that tiny trigger spring. There are a few reasons I can think of. First being the trigger pull weight is anywhere between 2 - 2.5 lbs pull AND some of our triggers aren't resetting OR it's hard to do an intentional single shot. Why would we want to change the spring? Well if we change the spring to have more tension on the trigger, there's more chance it will reset with less effort from the hammer because sometimes it doesn't reset because we're holding it too tight or the carrier doesn't have enough force to reset the trigger, resulting in an unintentional "single shot" that requires a charging handle rack to re-cock the hammer. Also, if the trigger spring has more tension, it will push our finger forward with less issues when resetting. Lastly, we will have more control of when or if we want to intentionally do a single shot. Right now it takes a skilled finger to do that. All in all, I would say this is another successful mod. I won't really know until I got the range, but I couldn't see any downsides to this. |
|
|
I have no home depot around View Quote You can't source it elsewhere? You must live in the boonies? I suggested HD but there must be online sources? I didn't price them but I'd buy a 100 screws just to guarantee a permanent fix. I think you can do the dremel mod. I have faith in ya' man! |
|
|
Originally Posted By StuartBoyer: Ah. I think I was misunderstood. The mod isn't to the locking bar for the carriers, the mod is to radius the leading edges of the carriers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr_MUkUp_r8&t=311s Yeah I still figure to do the mod but have seen two different versions of the cut. Some say bevel it at an angle towards the hole and some just do a crescent cut with no bevel. I assume the bevel with crescent is correct and wish the youtube videos could focus the camera enough to show a better look at the angle, after all even going slow so as not to mess up I could go to steep or too shallow on the angle. A drawing attached in the video would have been a good idea as the glare on the part makes it hard to see too even in photos. I have no problems cutting and working on ARs but this trigger thing is getting me nervous for some reason. Even the ITF binary trigger didn't bother me working on it but its parts are easy to obtain if messed up. I can see the cuts you made in your mod pretty good but wasn't yours specifically cut for your spring change? I wanna try the regular cut and spring first and add a guide rod and oring if I can find one then if that still has issues do your mod with the bolt catch spring and parts. Wanna work my way through it and try to stay stock as possible in case further development or official updated parts ever get released. View Quote My cut was.specifically to keep the locking bar from ruining the spring. There are zero downsides to doing the locking bar bevel. |
|
|
Not sure if this was said yet, but anyone in desperate need of an h3 buffer can assemble one fairly quick with few extra carbine buffers, a punch and a hammer.
|
|
Who said that?
|
Originally Posted By ahrion: I wanted to update everyone on the trigger spring replacements from McMaster. I have listed them below from highest spring tension to least. We already know the current trigger spring yields about 2 lbs - 2.5ish lbs pull weight and is NOT ground on each end of the trigger spring. (1) yields about 3 lbs 12 oz - 3 lbs 14 oz pull weight and is the smaller OD/ID of all the springs I tested. (2) is about 2 lbs 10 oz average, which is only slightly more than the stock spring. (3) I didn't even test because it was less tension as is than the stock spring. It's important to note that each of these spring are slightly longer than the stock spring and all of these springs are ground on the ends. It's also important to note that the infamous "click" when the trigger resets is MUCH more noticeable with (1) & (2) because of the "hair" longer spring and the increase in trigger spring tension. I am confident (1) will serve me much better and will work much better than the stock configuration, as right around 3.65 lbs - 3.85 lbs is over a pound of pull weight than the stock trigger AND the spring is slightly longer to help that reset. I will likely run this setup moving forward. 1. 2022N117 - Mil. Spec. Compression Springs, 0.25" Long, 0.18" OD, 0.128" ID, 57.8 Ibs/inch Spring Rate 2. 9657K608 - Compression Spring, 0.25" Long, 0.210" OD, 0.158" ID, 41 lbs/inch Spring Rate 3. 9657K607 - Compression Spring, 0.25" Long, 0.210" OD, 0.166" ID, 21.5 lbs/inch Spring Rate You're probably wondering why someone would change that tiny trigger spring. There are a few reasons I can think of. First being the trigger pull weight is anywhere between 2 - 2.5 lbs pull AND some of our triggers aren't resetting OR it's hard to do an intentional single shot. Why would we want to change the spring? Well if we change the spring to have more tension on the trigger, there's more chance it will reset with less effort from the hammer because sometimes it doesn't reset because we're holding it too tight or the carrier doesn't have enough force to reset the trigger, resulting in an unintentional "single shot" that requires a charging handle rack to re-cock the hammer. Also, if the trigger spring has more tension, it will push our finger forward with less issues when resetting. Lastly, we will have more control of when or if we want to intentionally do a single shot. Right now it takes a skilled finger to do that. All in all, I would say this is another successful mod. I won't really know until I got the range, but I couldn't see any downsides to this. View Quote |
|
|
Originally Posted By StuartBoyer: So I assume your cut wasn't specific to your spring setup and was the regular crescent cut to prevent kinking? When you made the crescent cut did you do you at an inward angle to the hole the spring rest in of just a straight cut in a crescent shape? EDIT: i'll try to do a crap drawing to explain what I'm asking, I don't think I am clear enough. https://i.imgur.com/ebFiMDn.jpg Basically are you dremeling a bevel at an angle towards the hole the spring rest in with the dremel bit or will just head on parallel to the locking bar be ok as long as both make a crescent shape when viewed from the bottom of the locking bar? Drawing could be clearer but I suck, looks better on real paper than photo shows. i have seen it both in videos and all resulted in a crescent shape just need to know if its better to bevel it at inward angle to add a slope. View Quote I really think your overthinking it. Simply just dremeled it like my pics. Would I say they are required for my mod? Yes. Do they help prevent kinking for the stock spring? Yes. |
|
|
Personally I ground it at a slight angle. I posted links in one of my YT vids.
Maybe this will help? https://imgur.com/IRRqfz6 |
|
|
Originally Posted By Jack007: Personally I ground it at a slight angle. I posted links in one of my YT vids. Maybe this will help? https://imgur.com/IRRqfz6 View Quote |
|
|
@haveTwo - you may be interested in this thread.
|
|
|
Anyone have experience with this ADM Buffer, or Surefire's OBC556?
Both seem to address bolt bounce, and I'm wondering how useful either may be. |
|
...they'll have made themselves a part of something, and they can talk about what they do. And what am I going to say? 'I killed the president of Paraguay with a fork. How have you been?'
|
Originally Posted By StuartBoyer: Mulling over buying a second though I don't really want too. Just so I can have a spare part one. Really wish someone with the skill would make some spare bars for it or rare breed do it themselves. View Quote Get me measurements and I'll see. Obviously it has to be softer than the carrier but perhaps there's a better material to choose. |
|
|
|
|
|
I have a few thousand rounds through a 10.5” pistol build I put together with the FRT and a recoil spring/buffer assembly I built myself which is approximately equivalent to an H3. Great ROF and reliability. I’m using a Faxon BCG and have only very light peening that has not progressed at all since initial break-in.
|
|
|
Originally Posted By itxpt: anyone run this trigger with this bcg with no issues? Spikes Tactical BCG View Quote You have a picture of the bottom? That’s what matters. ETA: it says full auto spec so it should be gtg. |
|
Have Bill call me - the45man
Pack LaRue Dillo #10 [SS17] I like oranges. |
I would be extremely surprised if a Spikes Tactical BCG didn't work with a RB FRT (If you know what I mean).
|
|
There are no coincidences
|
|
Big Daddy Unlimited has 9 of these in stock as of today. They had 51 earlier in the week. Apparently people took notice, ha.
|
|
|
Originally Posted By 99HMC4: Sear fix View Quote |
|
|
|
|
They are also providing ATF with material....
This is as close to a select fire machine gun as you can get without going with a legitimate machine gun, more so than a standard pull/release fire trigger system. View Quote Do they really need that to market the job? And all their pictures call it a "sear". |
|
|
Anyone else have the anti walk pins provided have too much side to side play on the lower, bout a mm to long? Don't think it would do anything bad but its annoying me and I think I'll have to get a KNS set.
EDIT: now noticed Rare Breed sells just the FRT spring https://www.rarebreedfirearms.com/locking-bar-spring/ and antiwalk pin and antiwalk pin screws as seperate parts. Maybe they will the locking bar too. |
|
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.