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NSWDG/Delta/AFSOC Recce Clone Picture and Discussion Thread (Page 135 of 137)
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Originally Posted By thatARMSguy: Doesn't seem too far fetched to want to use the same suppressor on your fighting rifle and your marksman rifle. We didn't know about the midwest railed Recce either until recently, I think a lot of people assumed the Recce had been replaced by this point but apparently they're still being used Everyone is so light on details about the MWI-railed recce. No one knows where it came from or if it was fielded or etc. Is there even a pic of one being used OCONUS? |
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Originally Posted By thatARMSguy: Doesn't seem too far fetched to want to use the same suppressor on your fighting rifle and your marksman rifle. We didn't know about the midwest railed Recce either until recently, I think a lot of people assumed the Recce had been replaced by this point but apparently they're still being used Just seems like the m4 recce would have been phased out by the time they got the 416sd. I remember him saying they forced him to turn it in. But who knows. |
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Originally Posted By M4A1SOPMOD: Just seems like the m4 recce would have been phased out by the time they got the 416sd. I remember him saying they forced him to turn it in. But who knows. @TinyCrumb may feel comfortable adding more here (hopefully in a future episode!), but for now, I'll quote what TC has already said regarding that specific G3 recce pictured on AE's website "Not only is it very real … they're still being used." |
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Originally Posted By methical20: @TinyCrumb may feel comfortable adding more here (hopefully in a future episode!), but for now, I'll quote what TC has already said regarding that specific G3 recce pictured on AE's website "Not only is it very real … they're still being used." We demand pics |
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Originally Posted By the-answer-is-42: Everyone is so light on details about the MWI-railed recce. No one knows where it came from or if it was fielded or etc. Is there even a pic of one being used OCONUS? The gen 3/MWI recce was fielded. There aren't currently any publicly available photos of these in use. I'm sure they will come with time. However there are small signs of MWI rails being used such as the MWI 300blk and the clone on page 56. There are two lengths of MWI rails used. 10.5" (from the AE photo) and 15". The 15" would be cut down to be flush with the suppressor. These were used to upgrade the gen 2 recces to be lighter and less bulky since that was a main complaint of the KAC FF RAS. Besides that the gen 3 also used more modern optics like the ATACR 1-8 and other NF scopes w/ aimpoints, also more modern lasers. Besides those upgrades, the gen 3 shared all the same parts as the gen 2. The gen 4 recces are the Geissele's. Since the Lilja barrel doesn't have a step for the collar to seat against, the recce collar was beaded in locktite and secured with a setscrew. These were custom done. The original recces were beginning to be fielded in the mid 90s so it predates the SPR collar and step. |
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Originally Posted By hwy-dude: The gen 3/MWI recce was fielded. There aren't currently any publicly available photos of these in use. I'm sure they will come with time. However there are small signs of MWI rails being used such as the MWI 300blk and the clone on page 56. There are two lengths of MWI rails used. 10.5" (from the AE photo) and 15". The 15" would be cut down to be flush with the suppressor. These were used to upgrade the gen 2 recces to be lighter and less bulky since that was a main complaint of the KAC FF RAS. Besides that the gen 3 also used more modern optics like the ATACR 1-8 and other NF scopes w/ aimpoints, also more modern lasers. Besides those upgrades, the gen 3 shared all the same parts as the gen 2. The gen 4 recces are the Geissele's. Since the Lilja barrel doesn't have a step for the collar to seat against, the recce collar was beaded in locktite and secured with a setscrew. These were custom done. The original recces were beginning to be fielded in the mid 90s so it predates the SPR collar and step. Geissele GFR? Or the 14.5 Super Duty |
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Originally Posted By TinyCrumb: For what it's worth, the day we were shooting the prototype cans, the M4 version had a burr on it that was preventing it from locking on the taper, so it was rotating and coming loose during firing. Even with that, we still didn't get a baffle strike … the threads and the small engagement that was still on the collar seemed to be enough that it was just rotational freedom but wasn't actually affecting the bore axis. So my hunch is that baffle strikes will be rare. I think the more common problem is that people who do their own setups for this won't have the collar secured properly enough and then it'll move as they "uuga duuga" threading the can on and move the collar. So how is the 17" carbine with the .080 and the new can? Any video yet you can share with the it? |
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Originally Posted By hwy-dude: The gen 3/MWI recce was fielded. There aren't currently any publicly available photos of these in use. I'm sure they will come with time. However there are small signs of MWI rails being used such as the MWI 300blk and the clone on page 56. There are two lengths of MWI rails used. 10.5" (from the AE photo) and 15". The 15" would be cut down to be flush with the suppressor. These were used to upgrade the gen 2 recces to be lighter and less bulky since that was a main complaint of the KAC FF RAS. Besides that the gen 3 also used more modern optics like the ATACR 1-8 and other NF scopes w/ aimpoints, also more modern lasers. Besides those upgrades, the gen 3 shared all the same parts as the gen 2. The gen 4 recces are the Geissele's. Since the Lilja barrel doesn't have a step for the collar to seat against, the recce collar was beaded in locktite and secured with a setscrew. These were custom done. The original recces were beginning to be fielded in the mid 90s so it predates the SPR collar and step. Another claim of something being cut down for a flush suppressor fit?????? |
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Originally Posted By JohnnyUtah427: Might as well make use of this lame 15.1 barrel until the M4 recce kits become available . Still trying to cope with being lied to all these years .. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54869990761_2b75631619_b.jpg |
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Originally Posted By JohnnyUtah427: Might as well make use of this lame 15.1 barrel until the M4 recce kits become available……. Still trying to cope with being lied to all these years….. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54869990761_2b75631619_b.jpg 15.1 refugees gotta stick together |
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Originally Posted By JohnnyUtah427: Might as well make use of this lame 15.1 barrel until the M4 recce kits become available……. Still trying to cope with being lied to all these years….. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54869990761_2b75631619_b.jpg What do you like better between it and the 14.5 geissele/m42k?? |
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Originally Posted By M4A1SOPMOD: What do you like better between it and the 14.5 geissele/m42k?? Thats a tough call, especially since installing the MI rail which I much prefer over the KAC ras btw. I'd have to say the G4 giessele recce simply because it has the ATACR along with still being a little lighter than the G2/G3 recces....but thats me - a guy that just does some serious LARPing on the side. |
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Originally Posted By JohnnyUtah427: Might as well make use of this lame 15.1 barrel until the M4 recce kits become available……. Still trying to cope with being lied to all these years….. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54869990761_2b75631619_b.jpg Which 15.1” barrel are you running? I put together mine with a CLE but haven’t had a chance to shoot it yet. Also I’m curious how carbine length is gonna work on the correct 17” Lilia barrel. Just seems odd on paper even though I know it’s correct. |
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Originally Posted By Hobbstc1: Which 15.1” barrel are you running? I put together mine with a CLE but haven’t had a chance to shoot it yet. Also I’m curious how carbine length is gonna work on the correct 17” Lilia barrel. Just seems odd on paper even though I know it’s correct. Its a 15.1 Douglas/CLE. |
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Originally Posted By JohnnyUtah427: Its a 15.1 Douglas/CLE. As accurate as I hear they are? Got it a couple months ago but havent had time to put it together yet. Just got a C AF upper for it finally. I'm on the list for the Recce kit, but I'm still undecided on it. |
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Originally Posted By Hobbstc1: As accurate as I hear they are? Got it a couple months ago but havent had time to put it together yet. Just got a C AF upper for it finally. I'm on the list for the Recce kit, but I'm still undecided on it. Oh yea..it shoots tight and fast. |
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Those rails are really growing on me. Havent purchased anything from MWI since like 2013 but these might make me act up. |
This is no way a clone of the M4 Recce, but I did use the MI 13.375 Combat Rail to replace the LaRue quad rail that I had on the upper originally. The Centurion 16 inch Mod H barrel is very accurate and the MI rail shaved a few pounds off of this rifle.  Centurion Mod H barrel by James H., on Flickr
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Originally Posted By jmh556: This is no way a clone of the M4 Recce, but I did use the MI 13.375 Combat Rail to replace the LaRue quad rail that I had on the upper originally. The Centurion 16 inch Mod H barrel is very accurate and the MI rail shaved a few pounds off of this rifle. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54875886031_c9a8d60797_c.jpgCenturion Mod H barrel by James H., on Flickr I'm thinking a 10.5 MI rail with 12.5 5.56 barrel m42k and 1-8x would be nice slinging some 77gr tmk |
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Originally Posted By Hobbstc1: So regarding the MI rails, it’s 10.5”? Or was there a longer one like the 12.625”? Trying to sift through all the comments on here, it’s a bit tough to tell what is correct and what is conjecture. Thanks! MI 10.5" and 15" are for the Lilja/OPS combo. 10.5" as pictured and 15" is cut down but there are no available pictures of that, but that comes from AE directly. 12.625" G3 Combat rail with Lilja barrel and Sandman/M4-2000 have been referenced by people who have seen setups, but again, no available pictures. |
Started a Chapman carbine recently. Don't know why but really enjoying this build. Sadly making a couple concessions, as I'm not paying $1000+ for KAC rings and the Mk11 front sight, but I do at least have a correct Leupold Vari-X III on the way. Need a PEQ-2A and a NT4 mount as well. 
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Originally Posted By methical20: MI 10.5" and 15" are for the Lilja/OPS combo. 10.5" as pictured and 15" is cut down but there are no available pictures of that, but that comes from AE directly. 12.625" G3 Combat rail with Lilja barrel and Sandman/M4-2000 have been referenced by people who have seen setups, but again, no available pictures. Awesome thanks! FYI Primary Arms has all the MI combat rails on sale right now. Picked up the 10.5” for $130. |
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Originally Posted By MS556: Thank you. Very helpful. This is an excellent historical guide. Much appreciated! Because of the length of this thread, repetition of the history occasionally may be helpful to those of us just beginning this journey. I was having difficulty (and still do) finding any historical basis for 15.1” original or cut down Recce barrels in the wild. It seems to be a product of the user boards to bring the Ops, Inc collar back enough to make the installed suppressor almost touching the rail while permitting it to still free float. Absent proof of use in the wild, I’m not one to say it is proper or improper for clone use. I don’t know much. I’d just like historical confirmation. I do have the Lilja barrel. It is 17” only if you include the barrel extension. Actual length from the front of the receiver to the end of the muzzle threads on mine is about 16.5”. I am a bit confused about the correct flash-hider or brake for the Lilja-equipped Recce. Indeed, since the barrel ahead of the gas port is .725” all the way, there is no “meat” to profile away for a standard Ops Inc collar. It would require a custom collar with a smaller internal bore and profiling that part of the barrel down to .700” I would think, or a sleeve over the barrel ahead of the gas journal to provide a shoulder for the collar. Neither would be clone-correct, I guess. In the wild, it seems that the Lilja-barreled Recce did not use a collar. Rather, it seems that the common mount was the KAC M4QD for attachment of the QD-NT4 can. Is that correct? Or was it the B. E. Meyers, or both? If I’m going this route, and spending money on the KAC NT4, I don’t want to make a mistake. Is this correct for barrel and mount (excluding the improper place holder DD rail)? https://i.postimg.cc/zBRcQw4f/IMG-3607.jpg Just going back through old posts. Wild how close people were that were questioning the 15.1”. |
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Originally Posted By TinyCrumb: 4. I wasn't aware of the gas block being discontinued but I still see surplus ones floating around often enough. Should be obtainable. KAC and discontinued is a weird thing. That being said, ive seen op parts get them 2-3 times this year. Dennis Todd also has new ones right now. Abouts $150 shipped. |
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Can anybody help me out with a link to the correct optic mount? I’ve seen it posted that it’s a Unimount 34mm but there appears to be several different versions of it. I finally got the scope so I need to get it mounted. I'll probably never have the LVAW can but other than that, mine should be pretty correct.
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As of 08/22/2025 at 2200 hours, EVERYTHING I list in the EE will include a timestamp pic with my username, the date and time the pic was taken. Do not buy anything from my account without the timestamp.
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| Well, the M4R drop tuned out to be an absolute shit show… I’m extremely disappointed to say the least. When I was finally able to load the page at 5:05 and add the kit to my cart, I was “cart jacked” while checking out. The dudes who actually care about correct era coatings and barrel markings aren’t going to be able to build out their rifles correctly. Huge bummer. |
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Originally Posted By Marz1024: Well, the M4R drop tuned out to be an absolute shit show… I’m extremely disappointed to say the least. When I was finally able to load the page at 5:05 and add the kit to my cart, I was “cart jacked” while checking out. The dudes who actually care about correct era coatings and barrel markings aren’t going to be able to build out their rifles correctly. Huge bummer. 
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Originally Posted By Marz1024: Well, the M4R drop tuned out to be an absolute shit show… I’m extremely disappointed to say the least. When I was finally able to load the page at 5:05 and add the kit to my cart, I was “cart jacked” while checking out. The dudes who actually care about correct era coatings and barrel markings aren’t going to be able to build out their rifles correctly. Huge bummer. I've already lost interest for the most part. Cloning during Trump slump with drop culture weeding its way deeper into everything, meanwhile the correct parts are barely even available, and I need to sell my incorrect parts to recoup money? I'm good. |
| Ya it took me like 15-20 minutes to check out and then said out of stock. Huge disappointment to me. I wanted the can mainly cuz of oxide coating. I ended up just buying a lilja barrel last night. I just hope I won’t be disappointed with carbine gas cuz I was running midlength and I prefer that. Can anyone compare shooting carbine vs mid gas system how it shoots? Huge difference? |
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Originally Posted By Redhead45: Ya it took me like 15-20 minutes to check out and then said out of stock. Huge disappointment to me. I wanted the can mainly cuz of oxide coating. I ended up just buying a lilja barrel last night. I just hope I won’t be disappointed with carbine gas cuz I was running midlength and I prefer that. Can anyone compare shooting carbine vs mid gas system how it shoots? Huge difference? You're gonna want a BRT tube |
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Clone heresy, but.... honestly, just wait for the AE/Craddock Precision mid-length that they're coming out with. Those will be a regularly stocked item. Straight from AE, they much prefer how the Craddock barrels shoot over the Lilja and install is simplified by having a built-in step for the collar. I understand the clone factor, but man, it's hard to justify an overpriced 16" carbine gas barrel in 2025. |
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Originally Posted By methical20: Clone heresy, but.... honestly, just wait for the AE/Craddock Precision mid-length that they're coming out with. Those will be a regularly stocked item. Straight from AE, they much prefer how the Craddock barrels shoot over the Lilja and install is simplified by having a built-in step for the collar. I understand the clone factor, but man, it's hard to justify an overpriced 16" carbine gas barrel in 2025. $600 lilja barrels is insane. Classic example of a company thankful they got a .mil contract with some lore behind it. After seeing their CS response to sending out barrels with wrong barrel extensions I dont know how theyre still running and/or what kind of products theyve been supplying. With that said, I will buy anyones 15.1" garbage barrel (with the correct M4 extension) for $150 no questions asked. |
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Originally Posted By the-answer-is-42: $600 lilja barrels is insane. Classic example of a company thankful they got a .mil contract with some lore behind it. After seeing their CS response to sending out barrels with wrong barrel extensions I dont know how theyre still running and/or what kind of products theyve been supplying. With that said, I will buy anyones 15.1" garbage barrel (with the correct M4 extension) for $150 no questions asked. Lmao, my Lilja 15.1 needed an extension polish but it does seem to shoot well |
NSWDG/Delta/AFSOC Recce Clone Picture and Discussion Thread (Page 135 of 137)
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