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Posted: 8/6/2017 3:11:00 PM EDT
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Alright, ARFCOM. The Good Idea Fairy came to me last night. It told me I should put together an American equivalent of the Russian AS VAL/VSS rifles. The criteria appear to be integral suppression (or the appearance thereof), barebones attachments, and small form factor. Now, the Stoner and Kalashnikov variants don't exactly look alike, I'm well aware. But if one wanted to build an American AS VAL, or an AR VAL, if you will, what would you recommend, remaining in keeping with the AS VAL/VSS aesthetic?
My build so far includes an ALG EMR V1 15" to act as a suppressor tube, with an 8" barrel and attached suppressor set inside. Furniture includes an MOE K2 grip and an MOE fixed carbine stock. On top would be a Primary Arms KISS scope or a micro dot and magnifier setup. 
What are your thoughts? Post your own concepts below! |
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I think a knurled free float handguard like hogue makes would give you the "look" for sure...
Attached File Attached File ETA: here's a link to an FTF Industies handguard that has fully knurled tube FTF Industries Tube |
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Instead of that stock and grip, I would use a Hera Arms stock, since it's more similar to what the VSS had.
(I mean for a real build like this, I'd do a Colt CAR stock and a Magpul MIAD, but you want the VSS aesthetic.) Optic should be a 1-4 variable. I'd use a Geissele mount, but that's just me. BUIS would be either KAC micro, or Magpul Pro for me. |
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Quoted:
Instead of that stock and grip, I would use a Hera Arms stock, since it's more similar to what the VSS had. (I mean for a real build like this, I'd do a Colt CAR stock and a Magpul MIAD, but you want the VSS aesthetic.) Optic should be a 1-4 variable. I'd use a Geissele mount, but that's just me. BUIS would be either KAC micro, or Magpul Pro for me. |
Played around with some more AS VAL ideas today. Probably a little more practical of a build than a VSS. Added some M-LOK rail covers and the AFG to resemble the angled handguard on the Kalashnikovs, as well as corresponding plum-ish paint.
Since suppressors are ATF material right now, I'll probably roll with a faux can for now. Then, if the SHUSH or HPA passes, I'll build a pistol and suppress it. I'll probably stick with 5.56mm in the rifle form and go .300 BLK in the pistol. Also, if I got a Russian optic, it would be an OKP-7. I love that green chevron-cross reticle. |
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Can always tuck a KAK Flashcan under the handguard.
pic for reference Attached File |
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Was thinking of that. That or a KX3. It's not exactly in keeping with the quiety-ness of the Russian rifles, but ATF can read my mind.
I gave some more thought to the build last night, in terms of concepts and usefulness vs. aesthetics. The idea, I think, is a mini-recce rifle that is streamlined, handy, and unconventional in terms of appearance, compared to other rifles in that role. In short, everyone can set up a recce rifle, and maybe even "integrally" suppress it. But I want mine to resemble and emulate the look and barebones feel of the Russian guns. |
Reminds me of AAC's Honey Badger.
Samson Evolution. ID is 1.56", so a suppressor will just fit inside the rail, it doesn't have a ton of cutouts along the side of the handguard, so it should look pretty slick: 
The ACE Skeleton would be a good option for a fixed stock: 
I like gripping the magwell, so I might not even get a grip, but if I do, it'll probably be the MLOK AFG. If you get a rail like the Samson I mentioned above, you could contact them to see if the flats are wider than 7mm. If they are, you can make your own MLOK slots, given you have the equipment. If you don't, I'm sure someone here could do it for you. If you want the angled grip look without that handstop at the front end, it's polymer, so you could modify it. Just grind off the end and angle it so that it meets flush with the handguard. You might even try going with a side charging upper. 
EDIT: Went ahead and messed with Gunstruction a bit. 
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Quoted:
Reminds me of AAC's Honey Badger. Quoted:
Reminds me of AAC's Honey Badger. The ACE Skeleton would be a good option for a fixed stock. I like gripping the magwell, so I might not even get a grip, but if I do, it'll probably be the MLOK AFG. You can make your own MLOK slots, given you have the equipment. If you don't, I'm sure someone here could do it for you. If you want the angled grip look without that handstop at the front end, it's polymer, so you could modify it. Just grind off the end and angle it so that it meets flush with the handguard. Went ahead and messed with Gunstruction a bit. EDIT: Does anyone know of a 17" or 18" handguard I could use? Long enough for a 16" barrel and KX3/5 flash hider? |
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Hmm. About making my own slots: That's a good idea. Maybe I should get a tubular handguard like the Hogue ones suggested and do some work to it. As far as the geometry of the angled grip goes, I may not do that. I don't naturally go for that part of the rifle, so it's not my cup of tea. EDIT: Does anyone know of a 17" or 18" handguard I could use? Long enough for a 16" barrel and KX3/5 flash hider? Midwest Industries 18" -- 1.75" ID #1 JP 17.25" Tubular Handguard -- 1.75" ID #2 JP 17.25" Tubular Handguard -- 1.75" ID |
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Cool thread. I have an MCX sbr pending and may pick up a Q honey badger because I love this kind of setup. Wish someone would make a VAL clone in 300blk on a AK type action. +1 to .300 VAL. Question: Should the handguard I use for the "suppressor" be a modular rail or picatinny, and should it have a monolithic top rail? |
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Great idea, the VAL has always been an interesting rifle to me at least.
As ppl have mentioned ideally this needs to be a 300BLK to get close to the VAL's 9mm Looking forward to see where this goes as i mite have to build an AR/AS VAL of my own at some point. Subscribed. |
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Should the handguard I use for the "suppressor" be a modular rail or picatinny, and should it have a monolithic top rail? 15", black 15", no holes, solid tube, but it's natural carbon fiber, so you'd want to cerakote it ___ Generally, I'm not a fan of the tubular handguard look on the AR15. There's just an aesthetic disconnect to me. Example; this one's a knurled Hogue, but they only make it in 12": 
A monolithic top rail is part of what defines a modern AR to me, unless you're using a drop-in handguard and FSB. The most I'd deviate from that is something like the SLR Helix: 
Regardless of what you do, you could wrap the handguard in titanium exhaust wrap. This could serve two purposes. One, if you get a handguard with holes in it, the wrap would cover them and give you a consistent texture all the way through, and two, it would mitigate any heat transferred through the handguard itself. 
In the end, it's all preference. I don't like tubes, but there are so many on the market that people must buy them. I guess the handguard choice also comes down to whether or not you plan on using iron sights at all. If you do, you'll want some sort of rail. The following is preference, but I don't like the way that add-on rails look on tubes. Because of that, and because I don't plan on building a rifle without irons, the choice wouldn't even be a difficult one for me. |
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If you're looking for a full-on recreation of the VAL, you'll want a tube. I actually came across another tube today by PRI. It's carbon fiber, a little expensive, but the way it mates to the receiver looks a bit more natural than the Hogue. It's also 20% lighter. Quoted:
If you're looking for a full-on recreation of the VAL, you'll want a tube. I actually came across another tube today by PRI. It's carbon fiber, a little expensive, but the way it mates to the receiver looks a bit more natural than the Hogue. It's also 20% lighter. Yep, played with the PRI in Gunstruction. It's pretty expensive for just looks, especially when compared with the ALG EMR V1. Generally, I'm not a fan of the tubular handguard look on the AR15. There's just an aesthetic disconnect to me. A monolithic top rail is part of what defines a modern AR to me, unless you're using a drop-in handguard and FSB. Regardless of what you do, you could wrap the handguard in titanium exhaust wrap. This could serve two purposes. One, if you get a handguard with holes in it, the wrap would cover them and give you a consistent texture all the way through, and two, it would mitigate any heat transferred through the handguard itself. In the end, it's all preference. I don't like tubes, but there are so many on the market that people must buy them. I guess the handguard choice also comes down to whether or not you plan on using iron sights at all. If you do, you'll want some sort of rail. The following is preference, but I don't like the way that add-on rails look on tubes. Because of that, and because I don't plan on building a rifle without irons, the choice wouldn't even be a difficult one for me. 
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| The only problem I see with that build is that ALG's website says the EMR has an inner diameter of 1.46" which is too small for a 5.56 or .30 caliber suppressor. If you did a 9mm build, that could definitely work though. Also, ALG has a V2 of the EMR with a more fluid rail-to-handguard transition, if you do end up going with 9mm in this build or another. |
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Thanks, noted. You mean 9x19mm, right? Apart from fitting a can under the EMR V1, wouldn't that look weird and not VAL-ish? And yeah, it would look ridiculous(well, given that it's supposed to look like a VAL) with Glock mags. I mentioned it because it's basically the only usable cartridge that would have a small enough suppressor to fit under the EMR. There aren't a ton of handguards that are big enough for a suppressor that either have no top rail or a hybrid like the EMR V2, other than the tubes. |
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Been playing around with some stuff.
I still like the ALG EMR V1, though, with its 1.46" ID, it can't host a suppressor. Fortunately, there are multiple handguard lengths and barrel lengths available, and by choosing a 10" handguard, a 10.3" barrel, and a direct-thread suppressor (though QD options could work as well), I produced a more viable result: 
ARFCOM user RJeff21 did a similar setup around 13" a while ago, so I'm reasonably sure this'll work. It works in both .300 and 5.56, as long as one can match barrels and handguards. I'm also shifting towards a fixed stock a la VSS as opposed to the folding AS VAL style, because it's simpler and more in keeping with the simple build. The more I look at this thing, the more it just seems like a weird take on a Johnny rifle. That kinda shoots down my bubble. EDIT: Looking back at the post above about chambering this build in 9mm, I wonder if I could use 9x19mm Simmunition mags with a 9x19mm bolt... Super quiet, cheap to run, kinda unique... Although drastically less effective than .300. Thoughts, anyone? |
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Quoted:
Been playing around with some stuff. I still like the ALG EMR V1, though, with its 1.46" ID, it can't host a suppressor. Fortunately, there are multiple handguard lengths and barrel lengths available, and by choosing a 10" handguard, a 10.3" barrel, and a direct-thread suppressor (though QD options could work as well), I produced a more viable result: http://i.imgur.com/Op9SNiF.jpg ARFCOM user RJeff21 did a similar setup around 13" a while ago, so I'm reasonably sure this'll work. It works in both .300 and 5.56, as long as one can match barrels and handguards. I'm also shifting towards a fixed stock a la VSS as opposed to the folding AS VAL style, because it's simpler and more in keeping with the simple build. The more I look at this thing, the more it just seems like a weird take on a Johnny rifle. That kinda shoots down my bubble. EDIT: Looking back at the post above about chambering this build in 9mm, I wonder if I could use 9x19mm Simmunition mags with a 9x19mm bolt... Super quiet, cheap to run, kinda unique... Although drastically less effective than .300. Thoughts, anyone? |
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