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Posted: 10/28/2016 11:55:51 AM EDT
[#1]
Lol. Butt strokes still work. Bayonets still work. This is a non-issue.
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Posted: 10/28/2016 12:01:40 PM EDT
[#2]
If it becomes an issue after doing it... use the other guy's gun.
If it comes down to that and you don't do it out of fear of hurting your rifle... the other guy will. |
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Posted: 10/28/2016 12:37:12 PM EDT
[#3]
It's a non issue.
Not the same thing, but on the topic: An old vet I know tells a lot funny stories about his first issued rifle, an M14, and the Army's replacement of it with an M16. He mentioned that the M14 had a lot more momentum when thrusting, and that using the M16 for the same tasks was very different. |
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Posted: 10/28/2016 12:37:56 PM EDT
[#4]
Well rifles were never melee weapons to begin with.
A bayonet is sort of last resort, oh s**t im out of ammo and the enemy is charging at my position kind of thing. |
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Posted: 10/28/2016 1:40:05 PM EDT
[#5]
I'm more concerned about the barrel than the buffer tube. Compared to either, if I had to use a bayonet, I wouldn't worry that much because I'm even more concerned about protecting my life.
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Posted: 10/28/2016 2:26:25 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well rifles were never melee weapons to begin with.
A bayonet is sort of last resort, oh s**t im out of ammo and the enemy is charging at my position kind of thing. 
Until the advent of the machinegun, the response of infantry to cavalry attack was to form square and fix bayonets. The buffer tube has always been a weakness of the AR design, largely obviated by large capacity magazines and light ammo. |
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Posted: 10/28/2016 2:27:16 PM EDT
[#7]
The clue here is that the M16A4 rifle still has the bayonet lug as do many M4 and other carbines with a front sight base. Bayonets are still in the inventory. Its just another weapon that can be used. It probably is superfluous today but it also would be a mistake to remove it from possible use because you simply cannot predict every crazy circumstance that may arise in the field and you definitely don't want to see somebody get hurt because they didn't have it.
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Posted: 10/28/2016 2:31:40 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The clue here is that the M16A4 rifle still has the bayonet lug as do many M4 and other carbines with a front sight base. Bayonets are still in the inventory. Its just another weapon that can be used. It probably is superfluous today but it also would be a mistake to remove it from possible use because you simply cannot predict every crazy circumstance that may arise in the field and you definitely don't want to see somebody get hurt because they didn't have it. Oh, no. We'd far rather Joe get hurt in Combatives than accidentally cut himself. 
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Posted: 10/28/2016 2:43:12 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm more concerned about the barrel than the buffer tube. Compared to either, if I had to use a bayonet, I wouldn't worry that much because I'm even more concerned about protecting my life. The plastic and aluminum bits will fare worse than the big steel pipe. |
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Posted: 10/28/2016 2:52:30 PM EDT
[#10]
You mean all of that training I did while in the Army was wasted?
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Posted: 10/28/2016 3:05:28 PM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 10/28/2016 3:29:51 PM EDT
[#12]
My thinking is in modern warfare, use of the bayonet is a last ditch effort so damage to the rifle is not a consideration. Now in the past, the bayonet was considered standard practice and the rifle reflected that being made of wood and steel. Tactics and weapons have changed since the bayonet was a standard tactic.
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Posted: 10/28/2016 3:44:21 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My thinking is in modern warfare, use of the bayonet is a last ditch effort so damage to the rifle is not a consideration. Now in the past, the bayonet was considered standard practice and the rifle reflected that being made of wood and steel. Tactics and weapons have changed since the bayonet was a standard tactic. For the Brits in Afghanistan, it would seem that fixing bayonets was a standard tactic, despite having one of the worst bayonet platforms in the history of man. |
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Posted: 10/28/2016 4:04:41 PM EDT
[#14]
During my time in service, we had two rifles that could be in use. M14, was a decent bayonet and hand to hand medium. It has a thicker barrel and a one piece stock (so to speak). This lended to a better platform for this.
The M16A1 was deemed to have a light barrel and stock to be used for very long for bayonet or as a melee device. It would work, just not as well or for as long. The rifle could be damaged more easily. We loved the M14 and used them every chance we got despite the rifle and ammo weight. |
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Posted: 10/28/2016 4:53:54 PM EDT
[#15]
Bayonet would be great for stealth zombie kills.
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Posted: 10/28/2016 5:11:24 PM EDT
[#16]
The AR15/M4/M16 does just fine buttstroking and sticking people with a bayonet.
For all practical combat purposes, the bayonet is more of a psychological weapon than an effective melee weapon. Sure, you can stick people, but you also risk them disarming you much easier by grabbing your rifle. Most modern bayonets are multi-purpose tools rather than a weapon, and it's more useful that way. |
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Posted: 10/28/2016 5:18:02 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
During my time in service, we had two rifles that could be in use. M14, was a decent bayonet and hand to hand medium. It has a thicker barrel and a one piece stock (so to speak). This lended to a better platform for this. The M16A1 was deemed to have a light barrel and stock to be used for very long for bayonet or as a melee device. It would work, just not as well or for as long. The rifle could be damaged more easily. We loved the M14 and used them every chance we got despite the rifle and ammo weight. They made the end of the barrel thicker outside of the handguard for the A2 and found it had the same problem. They looked into it closer and their bore straightness measuring tool was catching on the gas port and not reading correctly all along... so in reality it was a non-issue. I have heard similar stories about people being reluctant to give up the M14, given their reputation of the day I would have been too. |
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Posted: 10/28/2016 5:22:13 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well rifles were never melee weapons to begin with. A bayonet is sort of last resort, oh s**t im out of ammo and the enemy is charging at my position kind of thing. long guns/ rifles in military use have always been trained with to be able to revert to some secondary form of weapon. Some early ones were designed as clubs, and most early firearms were designed for bayonets from the very early days in the understanding that the slow rate of fire would dictate very few shots fired before closing to hand to hand range. It's not always a "last resort thing" as bayonets are often used offensively in charges. The Cavalry charge at Beersheba one of the most ungodly epic examples. |
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Posted: 10/28/2016 5:31:06 PM EDT
[#19]
Don't care. Still think my M9 bayonet is awesome.
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Posted: 10/28/2016 5:34:13 PM EDT
[#20]
I used mine in Iraq more than a few times, so did people in other units I've talked to. It's a great crowd control, weapons retention tool, and as has been the case for hundreds of years, an outstanding psychological tool.
People are not always afraid of being shot, because it's a super abstract concept to a lot of people. But everyone's gotten a little scrape of paper cut, or caught a kitchen knife wrong, maybe goofed with a box knife or razor blade... done something to know that getting a bayo in the guts would straight up fucking suck. It's more relate able and as such has the ability to really mind fuck people. Anyways, Bayonets still works on M-16's. The tubes don't bend, you can buttstroke the fuck out of people and things. Even when I was shredded up and 220 in the Marines, I never bent a buffer-tube smashing rifles on things. |
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Posted: 10/28/2016 5:36:14 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The AR15/M4/M16 does just fine buttstroking and sticking people with a bayonet. For all practical combat purposes, the bayonet is more of a psychological weapon than an effective melee weapon. Sure, you can stick people, but you also risk them disarming you much easier by grabbing your rifle. Most modern bayonets are multi-purpose tools rather than a weapon, and it's more useful that way. Have you ever done any bayonet training? It's the same thing as rifle retention without a bayonet, with a side benefit of stabbing and slicing. |
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Posted: 10/28/2016 6:10:28 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I used mine in Iraq more than a few times, so did people in other units I've talked to. It's a great crowd control, weapons retention tool, and as has been the case for hundreds of years, an outstanding psychological tool.
People are not always afraid of being shot, because it's a super abstract concept to a lot of people. But everyone's gotten a little scrape of paper cut, or caught a kitchen knife wrong, maybe goofed with a box knife or razor blade... done something to know that getting a bayo in the guts would straight up fucking suck. It's more relate able and as such has the ability to really mind fuck people. Anyways, Bayonets still works on M-16's. The tubes don't bend, you can buttstroke the fuck out of people and things. Even when I was shredded up and 220 in the Marines, I never bent a buffer-tube smashing rifles on things. Having bent a buffer tube mortaring my stock to demonstrate it, I can say buffer tubes can be bent. However, I can say that I have much doubt that it was a 7075 tube, and also the stock was not retracted as my stock is fixed. |
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Posted: 10/28/2016 6:27:36 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Having bent a buffer tube mortaring my stock to demonstrate it, I can say buffer tubes can be bent. However, I can say that I have much doubt that it was a 7075 tube, and also the stock was not retracted as my stock is fixed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I used mine in Iraq more than a few times, so did people in other units I've talked to. It's a great crowd control, weapons retention tool, and as has been the case for hundreds of years, an outstanding psychological tool.
People are not always afraid of being shot, because it's a super abstract concept to a lot of people. But everyone's gotten a little scrape of paper cut, or caught a kitchen knife wrong, maybe goofed with a box knife or razor blade... done something to know that getting a bayo in the guts would straight up fucking suck. It's more relate able and as such has the ability to really mind fuck people. Anyways, Bayonets still works on M-16's. The tubes don't bend, you can buttstroke the fuck out of people and things. Even when I was shredded up and 220 in the Marines, I never bent a buffer-tube smashing rifles on things. Having bent a buffer tube mortaring my stock to demonstrate it, I can say buffer tubes can be bent. However, I can say that I have much doubt that it was a 7075 tube, and also the stock was not retracted as my stock is fixed. I've had to motar an AR about four times in my life. It never took much force to break the bolt free and eject the round, especially if I were only doing it for demonstration purposes as you say. I can't imagine mortaring my rifle hard enough to bend a tube. Seems that would take quite a bit of force. Maybe with the stock fully extended with that extra leverage if you were to come down full force on the top corner of the stock it may slightly bend the tube. That's why I use a quality 7075 tube and fully collapse my stock if I'm forced to mortar it. |
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Posted: 10/28/2016 7:07:36 PM EDT
[#24]
While a 30 inch long M4 with a 7 inch blade fixed bayonet is not as effective pike as a 46 inch long musket with a 17 inch triangular bayonet attached, it still is an effective crowd control and psychological weapon....
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Posted: 10/28/2016 7:09:48 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've had to motar an AR about four times in my life. It never took much force to break the bolt free and eject the round, especially if I were only doing it for demonstration purposes as you say. I can't imagine mortaring my rifle hard enough to bend a tube. Seems that would take quite a bit of force. Maybe with the stock fully extended with that extra leverage if you were to come down full force on the top corner of the stock it may slightly bend the tube. That's why I use a quality 7075 tube and fully collapse my stock if I'm forced to mortar it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: I used mine in Iraq more than a few times, so did people in other units I've talked to. It's a great crowd control, weapons retention tool, and as has been the case for hundreds of years, an outstanding psychological tool.
People are not always afraid of being shot, because it's a super abstract concept to a lot of people. But everyone's gotten a little scrape of paper cut, or caught a kitchen knife wrong, maybe goofed with a box knife or razor blade... done something to know that getting a bayo in the guts would straight up fucking suck. It's more relate able and as such has the ability to really mind fuck people. Anyways, Bayonets still works on M-16's. The tubes don't bend, you can buttstroke the fuck out of people and things. Even when I was shredded up and 220 in the Marines, I never bent a buffer-tube smashing rifles on things. Having bent a buffer tube mortaring my stock to demonstrate it, I can say buffer tubes can be bent. However, I can say that I have much doubt that it was a 7075 tube, and also the stock was not retracted as my stock is fixed. I've had to motar an AR about four times in my life. It never took much force to break the bolt free and eject the round, especially if I were only doing it for demonstration purposes as you say. I can't imagine mortaring my rifle hard enough to bend a tube. Seems that would take quite a bit of force. Maybe with the stock fully extended with that extra leverage if you were to come down full force on the top corner of the stock it may slightly bend the tube. That's why I use a quality 7075 tube and fully collapse my stock if I'm forced to mortar it. You can break the wooden wrist of an M1 carbine, too, but it takes some doing. A 6061 buffer tube is about the same strength as a carbine wrist. |
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Posted: 10/28/2016 7:15:25 PM EDT
[#26]
While I'll admit to having no first-hand experience, I would imagine that the only time I would use a bayonet would be when the rifle was otherwise rendered inoperable. So it's a moot point.
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Posted: 10/28/2016 7:17:45 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Having bent a buffer tube mortaring my stock to demonstrate it, I can say buffer tubes can be bent. However, I can say that I have much doubt that it was a 7075 tube, and also the stock was not retracted as my stock is fixed. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I used mine in Iraq more than a few times, so did people in other units I've talked to. It's a great crowd control, weapons retention tool, and as has been the case for hundreds of years, an outstanding psychological tool. People are not always afraid of being shot, because it's a super abstract concept to a lot of people. But everyone's gotten a little scrape of paper cut, or caught a kitchen knife wrong, maybe goofed with a box knife or razor blade... done something to know that getting a bayo in the guts would straight up fucking suck. It's more relate able and as such has the ability to really mind fuck people. Anyways, Bayonets still works on M-16's. The tubes don't bend, you can buttstroke the fuck out of people and things. Even when I was shredded up and 220 in the Marines, I never bent a buffer-tube smashing rifles on things. Having bent a buffer tube mortaring my stock to demonstrate it, I can say buffer tubes can be bent. However, I can say that I have much doubt that it was a 7075 tube, and also the stock was not retracted as my stock is fixed. Barrels can be bent too. I saw a dude bend a 240 tripod leg on a football field doing gun drills... Everything can be bent or broken in the right situation or after enough stress cycles. But the failure of buffer tubes over time in military applications due to bayoneting or butt-stroking things has been low enough to be so far off the radar no one worries about it except in made up "what if" scenarios on the internet. |
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Posted: 10/28/2016 7:46:06 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've had to motar an AR about four times in my life. It never took much force to break the bolt free and eject the round, especially if I were only doing it for demonstration purposes as you say. I can't imagine mortaring my rifle hard enough to bend a tube. Seems that would take quite a bit of force. Maybe with the stock fully extended with that extra leverage if you were to come down full force on the top corner of the stock it may slightly bend the tube. That's why I use a quality 7075 tube and fully collapse my stock if I'm forced to mortar it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
[span style='font-weight: bold;']Quoted:
Having bent a buffer tube mortaring my stock to demonstrate it, I can say buffer tubes can be bent. However, I can say that I have much doubt that it was a 7075 tube, and also the stock was not retracted as my stock is fixed. I've had to motar an AR about four times in my life. It never took much force to break the bolt free and eject the round, especially if I were only doing it for demonstration purposes as you say. I can't imagine mortaring my rifle hard enough to bend a tube. Seems that would take quite a bit of force. Maybe with the stock fully extended with that extra leverage if you were to come down full force on the top corner of the stock it may slightly bend the tube. That's why I use a quality 7075 tube and fully collapse my stock if I'm forced to mortar it. I was demonstrating the strength of the stock I built, not the technique of mortaring. The stock held up. The buffer tube not so much. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 10/29/2016 2:46:26 AM EDT
[#29]
It may have been a long time since the last bayonet charge, but bayonets are still in use. Bayonet kills have happened in close quarters in the current conflicts.
Frankly I would rather not carry mine around with one attached because it makes it muzzle-heavy as hell, but if I was attacking/defending a structure or otherwise expecting close contact with people who may or may not attack me, I'd rather attach that sucker. Hell with the extra weight. Better safe than sorry. Vortex flash hiders may hurt when you bop someone with them, but a bayonet's gonna hurt a lot more... Counterintuitive as it may seem, as Madcap said, a pointy end on a rifle goes a longer way to dissuade someone than just a muzzle alone. |
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Posted: 10/29/2016 9:43:38 AM EDT
[#30]
Someone say bayonet???
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Posted: 10/29/2016 10:48:56 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It may have been a long time since the last bayonet charge, but bayonets are still in use. . . 2012, not so long ago.... https://www.gov.uk/government/news/bayonet-charge-foils-enemy-ambush Only three guys, but it shows the psychological advantage of a aggressive bayonet advance can have. |
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